102 replies to this topic

[Ryebear]

Right now Im having issues with Dual AC/20 Jags, much bigger ones than I had with jump snipers, ECM Ravens or really anything since the 6xSRM 6 Catapult-A1s at their heigh. Their overwhelming mobility combined with front loaded and extremely accurate damage sucks the life out of my experience. Any plans to limit the ability of efficacy of 2xAC/20s?

When up against them, there is no torso rolling or running to avoid them, only feeding them my teammates so they waste their shots while I plunk away at them.

And when they are my teammates it kills the fun since their "kill shots" are any CT or side (with XL) torsos ranging from a full armor mech (for lights) to dark orange (for an Atlas), whereas I would be able to have a nice actually fight with the enemy mech. I am literally more valuable loaded up with armor and flamers to distract enemies from shooting the Jags so they can get the kill.

Im sure at the outset of developing this game you had big dreams of building a real time multiplayer BattleTech experience, but there is no precedent for a mech that goes ~83 kph with a 40 damage a shot to a single location running around. And its prevalence in-game just isn't making for the MechWarrior experience I signed up for.

As far as autocannons go, I would LOVE to see them be given a lower total damage burst first, so a burst. For example a 3 round burst of 6.7 damage over the course of 0.5 seconds for the AC/20 or some other limiting factor to prevent what is going on in game.

[Volts]

Huge mobility lol?

I agree, they hurt, and are fairly pinpoint, but in essence it's just a 40 (50) pt alpha.

[Statixstorm]

...lol

"Working as intended."

That is all.

[Spheroid]

AC-40 is not a death sentence, you just need to avoid being taken by surprise at close range which is pretty easy with help of the seismic module. Also you neglected to say what mech you are using when facing AC-40s. That would help the feedback.

Edited by Spheroid, 05 June 2013 - 11:04 AM.

[Rebas Kradd]

These are one of those high-alpha builds that people complain about but shouldn't be. Yes, you can build them, but you're running with huge disadvantages in other areas and are definitely asking for it.

[Redshift2k5]

They are less gamebreaking than the AC40 K2 (which received only slight nerfs in the form of larger sidetorso hitboxes and smaller arm hitboxes when using ballistics)

They absolutely knew AC40 Jagermechs would be a popular build. They do suffer from poorly guarded side torsos, limited range, requisite XL engines, limited ammo, and high heat.

hit them with an ERPPC from 700m away or get behind them. They fare poorly to missiles as well.

[EyeOne]

I don't have a huge problem with the Jagerbombs (as I call them). The Jager is a ballistics mech and dual 20s is a valid use for it. It makes a lot of compromises in order to pull it off and they tend to die pretty easily. It's not too hard to get outside the twist arc of the Jager where you are safe.

It's certainly not easy mode. I've had plenty of AC20 rounds go whizzing by my head.

[Chavette]

You'll see whats the plan when you get to higher elo.

[Ryebear]

I've used the Raven-3L, I've played a few matches in a 2xAC/20 kitted Jag. Aside from cheesy CAT-A1 builds, I have tried all FOTM builds, without perspective I wouldn't feel ok with bringing up issues. I KNOW how hard they are to use, I KNOW how effective they are, this this case, incredibly effective.

"You can do it too" is also a silly thing to say, yes I know I can do it too. But as a game the goal is to make it fun for the doers and fun for the not doers. I am saying straight up, this is a un-fun build to play with and it is an un-fun build to play against.

As far as mechs I am using, lately its been as light as a Spider and as heavy as a Cataphract, usually in BlackJacks, Catapults and a Treb 7M. But its when I am tromping across the map with a full health Highlander targeted and his CT blinks twice and it is in the orange, then 5 seconds later the CT blinks twice and CT armor is gone, I dont need to press Q to see what mech and what build he is fighting, it is always an AC/20 Jag. That seems to diverge away from 'as intended' and more towards 'unforeseen' territory.

Edited by Ryebear, 05 June 2013 - 11:29 AM.

[Bishop Steiner]

seriously?

I run one, and they can be effective, but to work you also have a mech that:

Is a sitting duck at range,
Runs pretty hot
has severely limited ammo
and HAS to run an XL engine

If you are going to make a boogeyman out of a mech with that many disadvantages, I suggest that MW:O simply is not the game for you.

God help when the Clans arrive if you find BoomJagers too scary to handle.

[heleqin]

Ryebear, on 05 June 2013 - 11:28 AM, said:

But its when I am tromping across the map with a full health Highlander targeted and his CT blinks twice and it is in the orange, then 5 seconds later the CT blinks twice and CT armor is gone, I dont need to press Q to see what mech and what build he is fighting, it is always an AC/20 Jag. That seems to diverge away from 'as intended' and more towards 'unforeseen' territory.

considering the range limitations on the AC20, and your CT is getting tagged, if you don't see the jager right in front of you its probably not the AC20s and more likely a dual Gauss.

the dual Gauss and dual AC20 builds are very powerful, but as mentioned before, requires significant trade-offs. an XL engine is required, its not an option, I've run both builds, probably 65% of the time i get killed, its due to side torso coring. and then you have the ammo issues. plus with the AC20, a good highlander pilot with the equally cheesy PPC/Gauss build will blow you to pieces long before you ever get into range.

the game has a number of balancing issues, i don't think Jagers sort-of boating with 2 huge ballistic weapons is necessarily an issue, though the pinpoint convergence accuracy might be.

Edited by heleqin, 05 June 2013 - 11:54 AM.

[GabRaz]

Already mentioned several times above but to be concise with just two words: Side Torso.

[Volts]

Jag is probably my highest elo mech, and I ran ac40 to lvl all 3 of mine.

It is simply not viable at higher elo, for the reasons Bishop mentioned.

However, it sure is a fine time while running with the rest of you plebs!

[General Taskeen]

People are really gonna love the 4x AC/10 Annihilator :-D (if my dream becomes true). Or strap some 2xAC/20's/2xAC/10 Big-Badda-Boom or 4 Gauss on that Puppy, and you're good to go!

[RacerX]

Yes, folks are done complaining about the Cat K2s!

[Bishop Steiner]

Volts, on 05 June 2013 - 12:27 PM, said:

Jag is probably my highest elo mech, and I ran ac40 to lvl all 3 of mine.

It is simply not viable at higher elo, for the reasons Bishop mentioned.

However, it sure is a fine time while running with the rest of you plebs!

well, I run my at the highest end, but I have to be very specific how. Ambushes and flanks of already engaged, or flatfooted mechs is the only way to survive. Still running about 2 to 1 KDR with it. Not gonna impress the Pros, but really don't care.

[NRP]

And the QQ train just keeps on rolling.

[Bishop Steiner]

NRP, on 05 June 2013 - 01:21 PM, said:

And the QQ train just keeps on rolling.

DID WE EXPECT DIFFerently? Seriously, anytime someone has to work to beat something, it needs to be nerfed.

[General Taskeen]

Well, its an entirely different story for LB-X, NARC, MG, Flamer, they came pre-nerfed. Someday there will be QQ as we destroy mech armor with 2 MG's, one of these day's...

Edited by General Taskeen, 05 June 2013 - 01:47 PM.

[Purlana]

Duel AC20s are broken but PPC / LL boated stalkers are fine!

Am I doing it right?

Edited by Purlana, 05 June 2013 - 02:07 PM.