102 replies to this topic

[Hammerfinn]

Dual AC-20 is only a problem if they surprise you. Otherwise, if you stay at range, you can kill them easily. If you having huge problems with them, you need to work on map awareness, positioning, and knowing your terrain. No judgement there, I need to work on those things. But really, these are easily countered. If you're in a slow brawler with no support, tho, I guess you are just screwed unless your alpha is big.

[Sable Phoenix]

This is actually more of a problem with the Mech Skill Trees than it is with the Jager and the AC/20. If you have the Jager tree Elited you're suddenly faster and more maneuverable than a stock Jager, to an imbalancing degree. If you have it Mastered you can slap a Seismic on there and not only will most of your targets be unable to outrun you, they won't be able to hide either. I've frequently piloted my Elited Hunchbacks, even the one with a maxed out engine, and found myself unable to outrun or outturn a BoomJager and unable to get behind its torso twist. Three guesses as to how those fights went; first two don't count.

I actually have no problem with the dual-AC/20 config. I don't believe it's inherently imbalanced. As with everything in BattleTech, you are faced with a tradeoff. You can be passably good at several things, or you can really really good at one thing while sucking at everything else. Unfortunately the skill trees are something that were never in the design of the original game, and they allow you to patch some of the holes when you're really really good at one thing, so that you don't necessarily suck at everything else, and in fact may be above average in a few crucial areas.

I especially think that things like Speed Tweak, 2x Anchor Turn, and 2x Twist-X are damaging and potentially deadly to the game. These are the things that really make the BoomJager a threat. Otherwise, it would just be a fearsome close-range brawler that couldn't do anything else.

Edited by Sable Phoenix, 06 June 2013 - 04:35 AM.

[Ralgas]

equip siesmic
don't ignore flanking dots
.....
profit!!!

[Satchel 42]

With the exception of the rare cockpit shot, I don't have much of a problem with the Jager AC40's. Their side torsos go boom pretty quick, and if they're not running an XL, they are incredibly slow.

I'm not saying they don't kill me, or that it isn't powerful. Just saying that there are significant disadvantages that can be exploited. I think the tradeoffs are fair.

[El Bandito]

BoomJagers are so much easier to kill than annoying poptart Highlanders and 3Ds. Not to mention that it has crap range and limited ammo.

My Triple UAC5 Jager-S gives a big middle finger to all Dual AC20 Jagers.

[Av4tar]

Ryebear, on 05 June 2013 - 10:47 AM, said:

Right now Im having issues with Dual AC/20 Jags, much bigger ones than I had with jump snipers, ECM Ravens or really anything since the 6xSRM 6 Catapult-A1s at their heigh. Their overwhelming mobility combined with front loaded and extremely accurate damage sucks the life out of my experience. Any plans to limit the ability of efficacy of 2xAC/20s?

When up against them, there is no torso rolling or running to avoid them, only feeding them my teammates so they waste their shots while I plunk away at them.

And when they are my teammates it kills the fun since their "kill shots" are any CT or side (with XL) torsos ranging from a full armor mech (for lights) to dark orange (for an Atlas), whereas I would be able to have a nice actually fight with the enemy mech. I am literally more valuable loaded up with armor and flamers to distract enemies from shooting the Jags so they can get the kill.

Im sure at the outset of developing this game you had big dreams of building a real time multiplayer BattleTech experience, but there is no precedent for a mech that goes ~83 kph with a 40 damage a shot to a single location running around. And its prevalence in-game just isn't making for the MechWarrior experience I signed up for.

As far as autocannons go, I would LOVE to see them be given a lower total damage burst first, so a burst. For example a 3 round burst of 6.7 damage over the course of 0.5 seconds for the AC/20 or some other limiting factor to prevent what is going on in game.

The next step will be the dual CLBX20 Loki followed by the dual CLBX20 Thor and the tripple CLB20 Direwolf or Excecutioner.

[Bishop Steiner]

El Bandito, on 06 June 2013 - 05:43 AM, said:

BoomJagers are so much easier to kill than annoying poptart Highlanders and 3Ds. Not to mention that it has crap range and limited ammo.

My Triple UAC5 Jager-S gives a big middle finger to all Dual AC20 Jagers.

unless my BoomJager gives you the bad finger first!
(If you see me coming, I'm doing it wrong, or you are doing it VERY right)

[MeiSooHaityu]

Let me get my old man voice ready...

Back in my day, we used to have to contend with dual AC/20 Catapults, AND WE LIKED IT! Not like these kids with their dual AC/20 Jagermechs!

Ok, I'm back. Yea, the dual AC20 setup is brutal, but unlike the jump snipe, it is limited. At least a dual AC/20 mech has to get a LOT closer and tends to be slower and less manuverable (more hampered).

It is brutal, but I have more tolerance for those then I do jump sniping.

[Butane9000]

Most AC20 boats run XLs which gives them a significant weakness. However a few variants need smaller standard engines to run dual AC20s and thus are slow.

Heck I even saw a dual AC20 Cicada. Only had 2 tons or so of ammo though.

[MeiSooHaityu]

Butane9000, on 06 June 2013 - 07:47 AM, said:

...Heck I even saw a dual AC20 Cicada. Only had 2 tons or so of ammo though.

Oh WOW. How in the heck did he fit that? LOL. Just as importantly, how could he keep it cool enough to shoot twice

Edited by MeiSooHaityu, 06 June 2013 - 07:49 AM.

[Clit Beastwood]

My advice would be this:
"be where the bullets aren't"

[Trauglodyte]

The AC/20 Jager is only a problem if you're caught unaware. But, how is that any different from any other mech with a high alpha build? What you should know, though, is that in order for that mech to put 40 points of damage on you, the driver has to get within 270m. On the other hand, the cheeseball Stalker driver can do it from 540m with 4 PPCs. So, the trade off is a lack of range and not much heat vs a good deal of range and a massive amount of heat.

Honestly, with the inclusion of the Seimic module, you should never ben caught unaware by something with such a short range. The Stalker problem, well, you're just hosed there.

[Lightfoot]

No, I don't think so. Clan mechs are Omnimechs and will all mount 2 Clan Ultra AC20's or Clan LB-20X if the mech can carry them. Omni hardpoints adapt to any weapon. I expect to see IS Assaults capable of 2xAC20's when the Clans arrive. Victor, Zeus, Shootist (70 tons), etc.

[General Taskeen]

Lightfoot, on 06 June 2013 - 09:13 AM, said:

No, I don't think so. Clan mechs are Omnimechs and will all mount 2 Clan Ultra AC20's or Clan LB-20X if the mech can carry them. Omni hardpoints adapt to any weapon. I expect to see IS Assaults capable of 2xAC20's when the Clans arrive. Victor, Zeus, Shootist (70 tons), etc.

Best Guess: They will likely make IS and Clan equipment or weapons interchangeable, as has been the case in past mech games, and also as a precedent in canon. How might it work? C-Bill sinks in the upgrade menu ("Strip equipment from Clan Mech X to mount on IS Mech X for C-Bills").

[Hillslam]

And dont forget that at point blank range the AC20s on the jaggers cannot converge to the same location, often not even enough to hit the same mech at all. So even close in where they're nasty, get in CLOSER and they wont hit you at all - their arm mounts are VERY wide.

How do I know?

<---- Jagger AC40 ****. Got 3 of em in my garage and love the challenge of closing to brawl in a glass cannon.

(Hey its not like I am running a sniper poptart or the old k2 Gausscats with their mg ported)

[Tom Sawyer]

I love my jagerbomb DD 2 AC20's and 2 ML's You learn to take careful shots to conserve ammo and use the lasers as needed. KEEP MOVING and never let them nail your side torso 's I still die alot but often can take 1 or 2 with me

Oh and I will retire my jager when I can get my real love back:
http://www.sarna.net...lf_%28Daishi%29

[Belorion]

http://www.sarna.net...i/Hunchback_IIC

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/King_Crab

[MeiSooHaityu]

Belorion, on 06 June 2013 - 09:59 AM, said:

http://www.sarna.net...i/Hunchback_IIC

I love how sarna.net describes the Hunchback IIC...
" In truth, the assignment of a Hunchback IIC was essentially a death sentence. Warriors given this machine were not expected to survive their next battle."

Bahaha.

[skelley92]

It's not OP, what it is is very unforgiving to pilots who make mistakes.

Face hug it and you're dead, turn your back on it and you're dead, let is surprise you and you're dead, run into it alone and you're dead.

Good pilots have no trouble killing one in 2 or 3 PPC or Guess salvos.

I picked one up last week just for giggles and die 75% of the time and only have a K/D of 1.06.

Edited by skelley92, 06 June 2013 - 12:23 PM.

[Vodrin Thales]

MeiSooHaityu, on 06 June 2013 - 07:48 AM, said:

Oh WOW. How in the heck did he fit that? LOL. Just as importantly, how could he keep it cool enough to shoot twice

I ran into that guy. His legs exploded if you sneezed on them, and he was slowwwww.