52 replies to this topic

[stjobe]

Delas Ting Usee, on 05 June 2013 - 06:39 PM, said:

On a one on one - power down, the streak cat can't do crap except look at you. (not recommended)

Last time I did that, the Cat thought for a while, then used his jump jets to DFA me to death.

That was back in CB, mind you. These days it's much easier to just mount a BAP.

[Satan n stuff]

El Bandito, on 05 June 2013 - 07:36 PM, said:

Under 120 meters. Less than half the SSRM range. And SSRMs are already short ranged.

That doesn't matter a whole lot when the target isn't moving.

[El Bandito]

***** n stuff, on 06 June 2013 - 06:13 AM, said:

That doesn't matter a whole lot when the target isn't moving.

It does matter when there are multiple enemies around you. The world is not a sweet place where you can do 1v1 all the time.

[Satan n stuff]

El Bandito, on 06 June 2013 - 06:15 AM, said:

It does matter when there are multiple enemies around you. The world is not a sweet place where you can do 1v1 all the time.

If you were in streak range before if would only take you a few seconds to get into BAP range. If you don't have a few seconds you've probably made a big mistake that you're about to pay for either way.

[DEMAX51]

Wow - alright, let me address a few things here:

1. Nobody here is saying Streaks need to have their damage reduced.

2. Nobody's QQing about other missile weapons: LRMs are pretty good right now, and SRMs, if anything, need a buff.

3. The points we're trying to make are: Yes, even though Streaks will target various parts of 'Mechs (and they do) - on some chassis they are likely to damage the Front Center Torso with every single shot - which leads to these 'Mechs being cored incredibly quickly and with very little effort or skill on the part of the attacker.

4. This problem is likely due to TWO causes:
a. Bad hitboxes on some 'Mechs
b. Streaks' splash radius (which, even if lowered, is still rather prevalent)

You can tell me to "learn to play" all you want - I know how to play. When I see anything with Streaks I run away as quickly as I possibly effing can, because if I don't I'll be cored in seconds. I've played a lot of games. I'm a pretty decent light pilot. When I'm up against an enemy that doesn't have streaks, I can spread damage around my entire 'Mech and survive for quite a while. When I'm up against a mech that does have streaks, my center torso goes beet-red before any other part of my 'Mech reaches internal structure damage.

The problem is that these mechanics completely invalidate good play: No matter what I do, I take damage to my CT from Streaks. Rolling your armor doesn't work, and "evasive maneuvers" don't work when the enemy firing at you has the same level of maneuverability. The ONLY thing you can do against Streakers is turn tail and try to run away. I say "try" because even when running away you're still going to be shot with Streaks from behind (and the damage is still going to be applied to your CT).

It's a broken game mechanic and it needs to be addressed.

Streaks should be an effective weapon against light mechs, but their current implementation (coupled with some crappy hitboxes) is terrible, and needs to be addressed - and has needed to be addressed for months.

If you take into account...

-the low weight of Streaks
-their high refresh rate
-the relatively low heat they emit
-their 100% chance to hit
-the ease of their use
-their effectiveness at coring certain mechs

...it becomes pretty clear that streaks are a low-cost, low-risk, very-high-reward weapon - which is exactly what you do not want if you're trying to put together a balanced game.

Edited by DEMAX51, 07 June 2013 - 07:18 AM.

[Trauglodyte]

Sephlock, on 05 June 2013 - 02:53 PM, said:

Why is it that everyone always says OMG WEAPON X, Y, or Z (invariably a missile weapon) HIT ME IN THE BACK YET CORED ME FROM THE FRONT! OBVIOUSLY THIS IS NOT A HITBOX ISSUE OR SKELETON ISSUE, IT MUST BE THAT THE MISSILES ARE DOING TOOO MUCH DAMAGE NERF IT PGI NERF IT NERF IT!?

Because these same people don't understand how mechs are put together or the concept of structure being "painted" to specific hit locataions. To them, its always a problem with a weapons.

Though, in their defense, the missiles do locate around the CT. This is because, as was said in the ATD39, Streaks locate on 8 differing "bones" on the mech. That the bones are extremely close to the CT is something of a problem with hit boxes. But, to get that fixed, you've got to convince the Devs that something is wrong and that is like telling someone that the sky isn't actually blue. That isn't to say that they don't listen but you've got to hit them over the head with a sledge hammer to show that isn't correct and needs to be fixed.

[Straygo]

Demax is completly correct. No one is QQ'ing about them being OP. It was about how the dmg was being applied to the CT from behind. I dont agree that streak imbalance the game so terrible that they need to take them out. In a world of PPC/gauss builds, lights need somrthing that works 100% of the time to counter those builds.

Fix the hitbox issue, give back splash damage and a little more damage per missle and be done with it. Its out there, PGI is activly working on MULTIPLE issues (not just SSRMS) and will get to it when they get to it. And guys remember one very important fact... its still beta. nothing is perfect and nothing is set in stone. until they release the full non beta version, were gonna see ebb and flow of weapons, and equipment.

[TheFlyingScotsman]

@op

Because PGI refuses to acknowledge that tracking missiles currently hit CT with shocking disproportion. They disacknowledge issues all the time in order to squeeze a fix in without mentioning it.

Part of this is because mechanics (such as HSR) are required before they can make any reasonable change to said problems, so they will sooner ignore them until they can actually fix them than admit there is an issue and deal with the fallout of making a public statement on things they can't yet change.

Personally, I feel the biggest issue with streaks is how they fire from tubes. They can turn at almost any angle and hit mechs that they have already lost lock on. Instead, they need to fire straight outwards facing the mounting reticule, and then follow a much more shallow banking rate, meaning they will miss if not properly aimed, but always hit if the target is actually locked and fully in the crosshairs.

Right now, if you can squeeze them off, they automatically hit and go straight for CT. It kinda ***** on the light-medium game if you don't have streaks yourself.

Edited by TheFlyingScotsman, 06 June 2013 - 10:57 AM.

[zraven7]

Thank you, Demax, for spelling out what we have all been saying.

Look, I get that lil bits of front torso stick out an may count a shot or two to the back as front. The problem is that, with the splash damage, this makes pretty much all splash hits to the back of a light hit the front as well.

Consider right now that I'd rather my light take a couple of AC20 hits than go up against anything running 2 or more sets of streaks. I'll come out with less damage, and that's with running.

I like streaks, and have used them. They should be effective against lights. They just shouldn't ALWAYS damage CT.

Edited by zraven7, 06 June 2013 - 11:05 AM.

[SuperJoe]

A lot of robots it seems that their BUTTS count as the front ct. Atlas trying to hide bits of his torso, just shoot him in the butt.

so it could be streaks are hitting the hips or something and it counts as a front ct hit, i dunno.

[DEMAX51]

SuperJoe, on 06 June 2013 - 11:12 AM, said:

A lot of robots it seems that their BUTTS count as the front ct. Atlas trying to hide bits of his torso, just shoot him in the butt.

so it could be streaks are hitting the hips or something and it counts as a front ct hit, i dunno.

Yes, Joe, this is the case and is part of the problem here, but not the whole problem.

[Jonathan Paine]

The "hitting front CT from the rear" bug notwithstanding, streaks seem to be a decent back up weapon now. And yet, a far cry from being op as some poor streak cat found out when I killed him in my Spider 5D. Ah, precious speed keeping him at 300 meters..

However, if and when PGI get around to buffing SRMs by around 0.2 damage per missile, they should keep the streaks at their current damage level to keep both weapon systems viable.

[Delas Ting Usee]

@Demax51
You made a reasonable and sound argument.
My refute - I acutally think Streaks are working the way it's intended.
Streaks by design will go for the largest target on a chassis - the main body or center torso - EVEN if streaks hit the REAR of your mech. I can see why it would count as CT.
It's a great equalizer against fast and mobile mechs like Spiders or Cicadas.
Everything you listed about streaks - low weight, low heat, etc. tells me it's doing it's job well.
ECM use to be a deterrent but well...that's been countered,
If you were one of the players complaining about ECM...you reap what you sow.
Use to be that when piloting heavy and assaults and cofronted by a light, the only real defense then; as it is now, is to back up against the wall etc.
OR have your light pilot go against your opponents light.
Recall the days when a raven 3L could take down say an Atlas (non - ecm varient)
Now an Atlas with BAP and streaks could scare said light away.
I'll admit its challenging losing a lock against an opponent with the same maneuverability.
BUT it's also hard maintaining a lock on an opponent with the same maneuverability.

Edited by Delas Ting Usee, 06 June 2013 - 08:02 PM.