114 replies to this topic

[zraven7]

Come on, guys, lets keep the flames down a bit. This is actually a pretty productive conversation.

[FupDup]

El Bandito, on 06 June 2013 - 05:57 PM, said:

Nope. Cause immersion in this case talks about deep mental involvement, not burying someone.

Then dispersion?

http://dictionary.re.../dispersion?s=t

Basically, "scattering" your attention (which seems like a good opposite to deep mental involvement).

[pencilboom]

ManDaisy, on 06 June 2013 - 11:48 AM, said:

Thats not a bad suggestion, limit 3rd person mode to "practice" games.

this. people who are having difficulties with 1st PV are the ones that haven't mastered their mech movement and awareness. thus putting these people into practice games ( works similar like the ones we have right now, but with less rewards or even no rewards at all ) actually makes sense. and keeping them out from CW..

and having practice games with 3rd PV is actually interesting..I could see my damn mech with my camo and cool paint jobs in ACTION! RAWR

[JSparrowist]

I am only okay with 3rd person view IF they are not among the 1st person view players.

I can see how 3rd person would be exploited in every way possible by this community...

[Zerstorer Stallin]

Ghost Badger, on 06 June 2013 - 10:47 AM, said:

PGI announced their intention MONTHS ago that they were doing this because they want to potentially increase their playerbase.

They accompanied it with the sidenote of it being OPTIONAL. Check a box, and suddenly 3PV players disappear from your match search queue.

So, other than potentially screwing up matchmaking (because it's so perfect already) what's the big deal?

If you don't want to, you'll never have to play in 3PV or play against people using it.

You mean besides the fact they stated clearly in the closed beta phase they would NEVER do 3rd person or coolant? Oh crap.. you where serious about this aren't you?!?

[LordBraxton]

Zerstorer Stallin, on 06 June 2013 - 06:57 PM, said:

You mean besides the fact they stated clearly in the closed beta phase they would NEVER do 3rd person or coolant? Oh crap.. you where serious about this aren't you?!?

you tell him my man

my Sig is from a REALLY old official post by paul

then we had the polls

the most notable poll ended with 6000 against 3rd person with like 450 FOR 3rd person


ummm...

why would you spit in the face of your community?

hopefully they forget about 3PV

[Zerstorer Stallin]

LordBraxton, on 06 June 2013 - 07:05 PM, said:

you tell him my man

my Sig is from a REALLY old official post by paul

then we had the polls

the most notable poll ended with 6000 against 3rd person with like 450 FOR 3rd person


ummm...

why would you spit in the face of your community?

hopefully they forget about 3PV

yeah they only way to get their attention I fear is to stop playing. I've not played a single match since they announced 3rd person was coming. If more of 6k (* the number of people who feel the same that don't use the forums, most say that is 90% of the pop) just did this maybe they would get the point.

[Deathlike]

At this point, it's guaranteed it will be deployed. Once they set their minds to it... they can do.. almost everything.

I think most of the opinions are primarily colored by MW4 and that experience, which is part of the problem. However, with PGI being steadfast in their wanting to deploy it... even when their supposed "catering" to separating the queues which is a reasonable solution will still destroy the community.

[Lightfoot]

3PV will split the player base once Community Warfare is added.
3pv confers viewing advantages such as seeing over walls, ridges, around corners. You actually haven't seen poptarting in MWO yet, that's done in 3pv. So,if you don't want that style of play you play in First Person.
So when we have CW, my Unit wants to battle for a Planet, but either through bid process or CW definition this match has to be played with 3PV=On. Now I am forced to play in 3rd person. 3PV degrades MechWarrior experiences to me and many players.
Further, when you play for a Unit you make concessions to them and other Units. If you don't want 3PV, but other players do, you are forced to play in 3PV just to honor the wishes of other players. They will say, I am not saying you can't play in first person, why are you ruining my fun?
PGI says none of this will happen, but, to be honest, I don't see how.

[MoonUnitBeta]

I didn't realize that 3rd person was still an issue.. lol. This is funny stuff.

[Lightfoot]

Well, looking forward to CW, 3pv either splits the player base or you are forced to play in 3pv. 3pv and 1st person are not compatible unless they produce a really nerfed version of 3pv. At this point, who knows?

However, those of you who seem amused by this might not be laughing soon. Point of view is as much a restriction as the mech itself. Releasing that restriction has a huge impact on Mech gameplay. MechWarrior is not CoD or regular shooter. Cya!

Edited by Lightfoot, 06 June 2013 - 08:12 PM.

[Hexenhammer]

I love how everyone freaks out over 3rd person view. The biggest complainant I hear is "you'll see too much!" "You'll be able to see mechs around corners or behind you and that's not far."

Really? No one is smart enough to program the game to make mechs disappear if the pilot can not see it from the cockpit?

Edited by Hexenhammer, 06 June 2013 - 08:17 PM.

[Hammertrial]

Zerstorer Stallin, on 06 June 2013 - 06:57 PM, said:

You mean besides the fact they stated clearly in the closed beta phase they would NEVER do 3rd person or coolant? Oh crap.. you where serious about this aren't you?!?

Please tell me where they said they would never do 3rd person? Quote and link to the entire post.

Lightfoot, on 06 June 2013 - 07:56 PM, said:

Well, looking forward to CW, 3pv either splits the player base or you are forced to play in 3pv. 3pv and 1st person are not compatible unless they produce a really nerfed version of 3pv. At this point, who knows?

However, those of you who seem amused by this might not be laughing soon. Point of view is as much a restriction as the mech itself. Releasing that restriction has a huge impact on Mech gameplay. MechWarrior is not CoD or regular shooter. Cya!

If the whole point of 3rd person is to bring people who wouldn't play the game otherwise to the game, how is it "splitting" the playerbase, rather than expanding it with two seperate people?

And why do people keep saying "mechwarrior isn't cod". When the hell has CoD been 3rd person? Do you people even think before posting or does **** just spew from your mouths in your nerdrages?


EDIT: Huh, in MW2 apparently there was a single 3rd person mode unlocked at level 19. Still, point still stands.

EDIT2: Furthermore, nearly EVERY mechwarrior to date has had 3rd person. So I'd argue that not having 3rd person makes MWO more CoDlike than mechwarrior!

Edited by Hammertrial, 06 June 2013 - 08:56 PM.

[aniviron]

The problem really isn't with third person view, I have realized. It's that I no longer trust that what the devs tell us is true. If it is true that 3pv will never be playing against 1pv, then fine, I guess I will just never drop in the 3pv queue.

But I have learned that anything about the game's future that is said in dev posts is subject to change with little or no notice, and this often includes decisions that have far-reaching implications for the game. I guess I don't really care if a part of the player base doesn't enjoy the immersive experience that has been crafted in the cockpit. Whatever. But I don't want to play against people who don't have to deal with screen shake, who can see around corners, and who have a better overview of the battlefield situation than me just because I want to enjoy the cockpits the art team spent a lot of time creating. And as of right now, I don't trust PGI to stick to their word that I won't have to play against the 3pv queue, because they have changed their minds about these kinds of issues so often and so abruptly in the past, heedless of what the players wanted.

Finally, I don't think that 3pv is going to be some magic panacea that makes new players suddenly love the game. I just don't see it happening. If someone joins and hates the game right now, being able to see their mech is not going to make them fall in love with it. Anyone who thinks this game is ever going to have a playerbase as big as a calladoody is kidding themselves; it's mostly BT and sim diehards, and it always will be.

[Deathlike]

aniviron, on 06 June 2013 - 11:24 PM, said:

Finally, I don't think that 3pv is going to be some magic panacea that makes new players suddenly love the game. I just don't see it happening. If someone joins and hates the game right now, being able to see their mech is not going to make them fall in love with it. Anyone who thinks this game is ever going to have a playerbase as big as a calladoody is kidding themselves; it's mostly BT and sim diehards, and it always will be.

They would be better served with a complete tutorial instead of "GOOD LUCK WITH THE TRIAL MECHS AND OUR GENEROUS CADET BONUS".

Edited by Deathlike, 06 June 2013 - 11:44 PM.

[VonRunnegen]

For me weapon balance would be a concern - if PGI stuck to their word and kept me from ever playing with the 3pv people (unlikely) I'd still have my gaming experience impacted as weapon balance will be driven by different factors - unless weapons and mechs themselves will be different across the views!

Think ridge-humping.. how much better would it be to be able to see over that ridge before popping up. That makes some weapons work better in 3pv than 1pv.

Oh, and this game is taking long enough to dev as it is without adding extra stuff we didn't want and were told we wouldn't get!

[El Bandito]

Hammertrial, on 06 June 2013 - 08:49 PM, said:

Please tell me where they said they would never do 3rd person? Quote and link to the entire post. If the whole point of 3rd person is to bring people who wouldn't play the game otherwise to the game, how is it "splitting" the playerbase, rather than expanding it with two seperate people? And why do people keep saying "mechwarrior isn't cod". When the hell has CoD been 3rd person? Do you people even think before posting or does **** just spew from your mouths in your nerdrages? EDIT: Huh, in MW2 apparently there was a single 3rd person mode unlocked at level 19. Still, point still stands. EDIT2: Furthermore, nearly EVERY mechwarrior to date has had 3rd person. So I'd argue that not having 3rd person makes MWO more CoDlike than mechwarrior!

1. MWO is already too close to CoD than I prefer.

2. 3rd person will not make MWO into CoD, it will make it into GoW, which is still BS.

3. All previous MW titles were mainly for Single player experience so 3rd person was cool. MWO is pure Multi player.

There.

Edited by El Bandito, 06 June 2013 - 11:57 PM.

[p00k]

optional is ********. we've already cut the playerbase into quarters. 8man queue, or 4man/pug queue. conquest, or assault. now 3rd person vs 1st person? i'm already waiting on average 2-3 minutes just to find a solo pug drop. **** that

[Deathlike]

p00k, on 06 June 2013 - 11:57 PM, said:

optional is ********. we've already cut the playerbase into quarters. 8man queue, or 4man/pug queue. conquest, or assault. now 3rd person vs 1st person? i'm already waiting on average 2-3 minutes just to find a solo pug drop. **** that

I'm pretty sure that has more to do with your ELO, the slowly shrinking playerbase, or the slow influx of newbies. Take your pick.

[Oriius]

Deathlike, on 06 June 2013 - 11:41 PM, said:

They would be better served with a complete tutorial instead of "GOOD LUCK WITH THE TRIAL MECHS AND OUR GENEROUS CADET BONUS".

This is basically what I had been saying since this issue first came up. One of the big reasons listed was players unable to get used to where their torso/legs were positioned while in first person.

There are indeed tutorial and/or UI based ways of giving people that info, so I am not convinced that is a real issue.

Honestly though I am not even sure CW will cause a big explosion of new players, let alone one split in two by perspective. (That isn't to say it won't be good, just that I don't think it'll make the game explode in popularity as some might think, mech's are a niche thing)

So is the idea to broaden the target market, make it less niche? If that is the case I doubt third person will help at all, but I'm no expert in anything relevant.

In my experience a broader market works well with less specialized products, and seems to hurt (or at least do very little for) more specialized ones in the long run. As I said though I am no expert.