114 replies to this topic

[Alistair Winter]

So... not only do I get to choose between 1PV and 3PV, but it's also fairly certain that poptarts will migrate to 3PV? How is this a bad thing again?

I wouldn't mind if this forum had less indignant fans who consider each "promise broken" to be a human rights violation.


EDIT: To clarify, I would prefer it if PGI actually held their promises and developed the game they once talked about, instead of what we have now. But I care more about the quality of the game than the promises themselves. If they need to break a promise to make a better game, that's fine. Right now they're breaking prmoises to make a worse game, which is bad.

Edited by Alistair Winter, 07 June 2013 - 04:03 AM.

[Hammertrial]

Deathlike, on 06 June 2013 - 11:41 PM, said:

They would be better served with a complete tutorial instead of "GOOD LUCK WITH THE TRIAL MECHS AND OUR GENEROUS CADET BONUS".

You mean like the tutorial they've announced a couple times including the most recent June update?

Namais, on 07 June 2013 - 02:42 AM, said:

http://www.pcgamer.c...tical-mech-sim/

Sorry it's not a post.

No where does it say there will never be 3rd. The game at the time of the article is fully first person...

[Thanatos676]

Nicholas Carlyle, on 06 June 2013 - 11:10 AM, said:

My biggest issue is it splinters the game if we have 3PV and 1PV separately.

And IF 3PV gives an advantage, you will see people drift towards it just like Poptarts, and PPC stalkers.

And if 3PV becomes the dominant version of this game, it will probably kill it in the long run. Because all those people who voted against it are the people who spend money regularly and are hardcore battletech players.

It wasn't like 50/50, it was like 90% of the player base on the forums not wanting it.

Very well said sir.

[Acid Phase]

My problem with PGI's stance over this, is that they went from "Strictly being a 1PV" to "We're implementing it non-negotiable". A complete switch. Not to mention claiming the community in the forums are not considered the target demographic that outnumbers this community in wanting 3PV. I'm still skeptical of this, as PGI has not prvided a poll at the start-up screen to prove wether the community prefers 1st or 3rd PV.

[Shae Starfyre]

I can't wait for the callenge of being a non-3rd person viewer playing against 3rd person viewers. What a way to hone your situational awareness. Bring it!

[AlmightyAeng]

For those of you who are asking where PGI said they wouldn't implement 3rd person, zraven7 posted a link on page 3 of this discussion. Here is it again, a post from Paul Inouye. It doesn't say they won't, but they comment on it being at odds with their intended vision. People read a lot into that.

http://mwomercs.com/...016#entry587016

Edited by Ghost Badger, 07 June 2013 - 07:37 AM.

[IceSerpent]

Hammertrial, on 07 June 2013 - 06:30 AM, said:

You mean like the tutorial they've announced a couple times including the most recent June update?

Yeah, the one that has been announced a couple of times, but was never implemented.

Quote

No where does it say there will never be 3rd. The game at the time of the article is fully first person...

Did they ban you on google or something? http://mwomercs.com/...__fromsearch__1

[Acid Phase]

It's an obvious publisher move. IGP tells PGI to jump, and PGI has to say how high.

[Lightfoot]

Once you are playing for a Unit of your friends, teammates, they may chose to play first person only or not. If they play first person only they will be asked to allow 3rd person by a 3rd person Unit bidding for a planet in contention in CW, by players on opposing teams, and their own. To honor the wishes of others and not spoil their fun they will agree in most cases to 3rd person=ON games and MWO will become a 3rd person shooter.

At least that's the likely scenario. It's true that in random drops I can just click Forced First Person, but it's a whole other matter to click that checkbox when participating in league play or CW. It's not you decision anymore. It's your Unit's, the opposing Unit's and CW's decision.

Anyway, the honorable thing to do will be allow 3rd person so as to not spoil other people's fun, and this is likely to be the normal result.

I don't really care about 3rd person except I don't think it can be made compatable with 1st person. I will always run my game in 1st person regardless of settings. So we'll see what happens. I just didn't want anyone to think it is so simple as checking a box when you are playing for a Unit in ranked play scenarios. Otherwise I wouldn't bother posting since it's a moot point. However, while things are in the formation process it is wise to consider the end result and how CW will function with 1st and 3rd person check boxes.

Edited by Lightfoot, 07 June 2013 - 08:21 AM.

[Monky]

No matter how you slice it it's a bad idea. PGI might gain a few players on the anouncement, the rest who haven't come back have already forgotten about MWO - to them it's just a robot game.

The first thing to happen will be the community will be split. People will begin to coalesce around the easier mode of play (3pV), leaving 1pV an eventual ghost town. This is not because everyone enjoys 3pV, but due to a simple fact that people will, horrendously often, play for advantage rather than enjoyment (think any game that ever had cheat codes... you know what you did with them). PGI will eventually realise that the 1pV queue is having horrendous wait times, and may make a token effort or two to get people back into it, then eventually it will be merged. And there you have it.

[Hammertrial]

IceSerpent, on 07 June 2013 - 07:46 AM, said:

Yeah, the one that has been announced a couple of times, but was never implemented.



Did they ban you on google or something? http://mwomercs.com/...__fromsearch__1

You mean the one that says

Quote

We will investigate 3rd person in the far off distance for special game settings, but this is very far off in the distance.

While we appreciate those who enjoy 3rd person, MWO will be 1st person out of the gate and in the near future

Also found in my sig.

Either way, hello Cartman

Edited by Hammertrial, 07 June 2013 - 08:31 AM.

[Blue Footed Booby]

Ghost Badger, on 06 June 2013 - 10:47 AM, said:

...

If you don't want to, you'll never have to play in 3PV or play against people using it.

This is a strawman to the point of being flamebate and you know it. EVERYONE who hates third person and doesn't plan to just not use it is concerned that the increased visibility and situational awareness that comes with it will render first person less effective, basically forcing anyone who wants to actually win to play in third. You can argue that isn't a good enough reason to not include it. You can argue that harming the competitive scene is good for the game as a whole. You can't argue that people who don't want it in are just being irrational busybodies.

[FactorlanP]

Blue Footed Booby, on 07 June 2013 - 08:35 AM, said:

This is a strawman to the point of being flamebate and you know it. EVERYONE who hates third person and doesn't plan to just not use it is concerned that the increased visibility and situational awareness that comes with it will render first person less effective, basically forcing anyone who wants to actually win to play in third. You can argue that isn't a good enough reason to not include it. You can argue that harming the competitive scene is good for the game as a whole. You can't argue that people who don't want it in are just being irrational busybodies.

Totally agree.

Many of us believe that the introduction of 3rd person will be the beginning of the downward spiral that will kill this game.

[Jestun]

Ghost Badger, on 06 June 2013 - 10:47 AM, said:

If you don't want to, you'll never have to play in 3PV or play against people using it.

Just like having no plans on implementing 3rd person used to be their position at the time, not being forced to play with other views can only be considered their position at of when they made that statement (what, around March when the thread in ComStar was created?).

Who knows what it will be tomorrow?

[AlmightyAeng]

Blue Footed Booby, on 07 June 2013 - 08:35 AM, said:

This is a strawman to the point of being flamebate and you know it. EVERYONE who hates third person and doesn't plan to just not use it is concerned that the increased visibility and situational awareness that comes with it will render first person less effective, basically forcing anyone who wants to actually win to play in third. You can argue that isn't a good enough reason to not include it. You can argue that harming the competitive scene is good for the game as a whole. You can't argue that people who don't want it in are just being irrational busybodies.

You might want to read to the end of the sentence. I didn't say the solution was jut 'not to use it.' Yes, if 1PV and 3PV were forced to player together there is an arguable advantage to using 3PV.

From my understanding, PGI stated that players could opt out of ANYONE in their matches using 3PV. So, the 'it's more competitive' issue is negated.

That said, I am concerned about how this will play into CW when teams that want to compete over a planet have different view preferences, and how PGI plans to address that.

[IceSerpent]

Lightfoot, on 07 June 2013 - 08:19 AM, said:

Once you are playing for a Unit of your friends, teammates, they may chose to play first person only or not. If they play first person only they will be asked to allow 3rd person by a 3rd person Unit bidding for a planet in contention in CW, by players on opposing teams, and their own. To honor the wishes of others and not spoil their fun they will agree in most cases to 3rd person=ON games and MWO will become a 3rd person shooter.

What happens if that 1PV unit says "1PV or g.t.f.o" instead?

Quote

At least that's the likely scenario. It's true that in random drops I can just click Forced First Person, but it's a whole other matter to click that checkbox when participating in league play or CW. It's not you decision anymore. It's your Unit's, the opposing Unit's and CW's decision.

If previous leagues are of any indication, your chances of meeting a dinosaur on the street are considerably higher than chances of 1PV unit agreeing to a 3PV match (or vice versa).

Hammertrial, on 07 June 2013 - 08:30 AM, said:

You mean the one that says

Quote

We will investigate 3rd person in the far off distance for special game settings, but this is very far off in the distance.

While we appreciate those who enjoy 3rd person, MWO will be 1st person out of the gate and in the near future

Yes, that's the one. Note the bolded part - it implies that you don't have to play in 3PV unless you turn those "special settings" on. The whole point of contention is that there's a very high probability that this won't be the case, because as long as those "special settings" apply to the real matches (and not just to a tutorial or some sort of sandbox mode), the whole concept becomes incompatible with CW.

Edited by IceSerpent, 07 June 2013 - 09:03 AM.

[Shae Starfyre]

Namais, on 07 June 2013 - 07:03 AM, said:

How does someone being able to see you and you not being able to see them hone anything. Serious question.

It will push your situational awareness because you know that they can see you; perhaps the better term is tactical awareness. For example, and I am just hypothesizing, the 3rd person view will only allow one to see immediately behind them, so instead of a Raven, for example, hugging the mechs behind, it will stay a little further out.

I know that when I go out agaisnt such individuals who can see right behind them, will have little concenquence to me as a player, for they are still limited to their mechs turning ration, arm and hand actuators.

[Zaptruder]

At the current rate, I'm going to be chuffed to be rolling in the 3PV queue. None of the elitist jerks will be there

[Deathlike]

Hammertrial, on 07 June 2013 - 06:30 AM, said:

You mean like the tutorial they've announced a couple times including the most recent June update?

Even the "semi-functional" Training Grounds is a poor substitute.. plus it doesn't even function anything like the normal game (like, the lack of efficiencies applied).

Oriius, on 07 June 2013 - 03:50 AM, said:

This is basically what I had been saying since this issue first came up. One of the big reasons listed was players unable to get used to where their torso/legs were positioned while in first person.

There are indeed tutorial and/or UI based ways of giving people that info, so I am not convinced that is a real issue.

Videos are not enough. For a game that's not your average shooter, those that have not played anything resembling a MW game are almost guaranteed to have trouble with it. I spec enough newbies in trial mechs to see that they don't quite know how to control their mechs. That is a serious problem.

[TexAce]

IGP is telling them to implement it, because IGP thinks the majority of all players who might ever try out this game demand it.
IGP knows and gives a crap about BT fans.
IGP is on the other hand VERY happy about the founders money though and already invested it in several other games.
IGP says thank you very much and so long, suckers.

Edited by TexAss, 07 June 2013 - 10:45 AM.