57 replies to this topic

[stjobe]

MeiSooHaityu, on 07 June 2013 - 09:53 AM, said:

That's the thing though, right? I mean if you own the name to the mechs, draw a mech with that name that DOESN'T look like the Macross mechs.

PGI's Catapult does NOT look like the traditional Battletech Catapult (as an example). I don't see why they couldn't do this tweaking to the un-seens. It isn't a copyright issue if there is nothing that closely ties the designs togather.

They can of course do that, but those of us who have played BattleTech since the mid-80s have a very strong attachment to the looks of the Unseen. There are so-called Reseen designs out there, but if you ask me they're horrible eyesores that aren't fit for anything, much less inclusion in MWO. There's a lot of people that won't accept a Warhammer or Marauder unless they look exactly like the Unseen artwork (I'm not one of them, though, I'd accept something close; see below).

There's also the whole issue about not stirring the hornet's nest; Harmony Gold only needs to get PGI to court to ruin them and this game; HG's pockets are incomparably deeper than PGI's.

That all said, I'm actually so impressed with FD's 'mech designs for MWO I'd love to see his take on the Unseens. I'm sure that if anyone can pull off making them reminiscent of the classic designs but still unlike them enough not to get sued, it's him.

[BlackWidow]

Hyperlynx, on 07 June 2013 - 08:02 AM, said:

Greed schmeed. They shouldn't have copied someone else's walking robot tanks in the first place.

NO. They licensed it. Huge difference.

[Belorion]

Bishop Steiner, on 07 June 2013 - 09:00 AM, said:

cool story bro. wrong, but cool.

Before opening your mouth and just being, well, wrong, try looking up the real story. It's easy to find. They had the rights, or THOUGHT they did.

As it turns out in hind sight they did have the rights. Still doesn't change anything.

[AlexEss]

As i have pointed out before... Even if the unseen did not become unseen there is no guarantee that FASA actually owned the rights to use the designs in computer games. And there is a even less sure thing that they would have stayed intact after the transfer of ownership and secondary licensing left and right.

Right now i am pretty sure other companies owns the rights to use those designs in electronic entertainment media. So while it would be nice to see the unseen i'd say there is a snowballs chance in hell to see even the "re-seen" designs as long as they have other mechs to pull from. And seeing how the clan mechs (thanks to the Mechwarrior games) are way way way more familiar to fans of today then the old BT unseen.they do not need to look in to that venue in a very long time.

Edited by AlexEss, 07 June 2013 - 12:25 PM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Belorion, on 07 June 2013 - 12:01 PM, said:

As it turns out in hind sight they did have the rights. Still doesn't change anything.

No it doesn't. But same misinformation getting promulgated as gospel all the time gets old.

[Xeno Phalcon]

Harmony Gold is like a bear trap that lays there rusting and doing nothing good until a little girl steps in it. The company itself is pretty much in the toilet but just the threat of a lawsuit is generally enough to cause companies like fasa and PGI (or whoever) back off because they don't want to harm their own companies getting into a lengthy battle with HG. That being said if anyone did put their foot down its unlikely HG would be able to fund a long term legal battle themselves, but really whos going to fork up whats probably hundreds of thousands of dollars just to appease the fanbase when there are a ton of other not-trapped mechs to put into the game?

I mean dont get me wrong, i'd kill to get a marauder and archer in MWO but if we did its unlikely they would bear much resemblance to what we know and love. (Reseen marauder isnt THAT bad like a circumcised Warhawk but whoever did the reseen Archer should be beatin with a stick.)

Edited by Xeno Phalcon, 07 June 2013 - 12:47 PM.

[Razornav]

How about a little Defiance lovin' instead?

[verybad]

Sephlock, on 07 June 2013 - 08:09 AM, said:

Yeah, yeah, I know... but still .

Too bad they don't allow mods ehh? *whistles and walks away*

[Sephlock]

Bishop Steiner, on 07 June 2013 - 12:37 PM, said:

No it doesn't. But same misinformation getting promulgated as gospel all the time gets old.

Explain the video then .

.

Xeno Phalcon, on 07 June 2013 - 12:43 PM, said:

Harmony Gold is like a bear trap that lays there rusting and doing nothing good until a little girl steps in it. The company itself is pretty much in the toilet but just the threat of a lawsuit is generally enough to cause companies like fasa and PGI (or whoever) back off because they don't want to harm their own companies getting into a lengthy battle with HG.

What have they done lately anyway?

[Bishop Steiner]

Sephlock, on 07 June 2013 - 03:43 PM, said:

Explain the video then .

.

What have they done lately anyway?

Hey, they TRIED to make that game. No studio would back them, and HG tried to go for them, yet again.

What I don't get, is realistically, HG really only brought us Robotech (which I loved, some serious happy childhood memories to that). but seriously, since? Nada... so where the heck do they get the deep pockets from!?!?!??!

[Belorion]

AlexEss, on 07 June 2013 - 12:24 PM, said:

As i have pointed out before... Even if the unseen did not become unseen there is no guarantee that FASA actually owned the rights to use the designs in computer games. And there is a even less sure thing that they would have stayed intact after the transfer of ownership and secondary licensing left and right.

Right now i am pretty sure other companies owns the rights to use those designs in electronic entertainment media. So while it would be nice to see the unseen i'd say there is a snowballs chance in hell to see even the "re-seen" designs as long as they have other mechs to pull from. And seeing how the clan mechs (thanks to the Mechwarrior games) are way way way more familiar to fans of today then the old BT unseen.they do not need to look in to that venue in a very long time.

As far as my understanding goes, FASA should have had clear rights to use the unseen in miniatures, while Harmony gold should of had clear rights to use the images in animated media if it was for the specific animated media in question. So no one has clear rights to the electronic versions, and I am not so sure HG has the right to use them in Robotech since that whole series is a derivative work.

Bishop Steiner, on 07 June 2013 - 04:58 PM, said:

Hey, they TRIED to make that game. No studio would back them, and HG tried to go for them, yet again.

What I don't get, is realistically, HG really only brought us Robotech (which I loved, some serious happy childhood memories to that). but seriously, since? Nada... so where the heck do they get the deep pockets from!?!?!??!

I read or heard somewhere that the people that make up Harmony Gold are themselves lawyers which makes the legal fees a lot cheaper. Still if it came down to a serious law suit they would have to higher other attorneys which would make quite a difference. Are there any attorneys that play this game? Maybe we can bring a class action suit against them for emotional damage since we are deprived of the unseen.

Edited by Belorion, 07 June 2013 - 05:03 PM.

[Nauht]

Why all the fuss? It's pretty clear that PGI have worked around IP problems. I mean we have the rifleman already, sorry I meant Jager and the Orion oddly looks like a more sleek Warhammer. If you look at the old 80s drawing of those mechs they look totally different.

Now compare PGI's jager and orion to 80's rifleman and warhammer.

[Belorion]

The Jager and Orion are both original mechs that were released along side the Rifleman and the Warhammer.

[Tkhaw]

As much as I like to see the warhammer, I don't think its worth it for PGI to have an unseen out, so early in beta anyway

[Nauht]

Belorion, on 07 June 2013 - 09:20 PM, said:

The Jager and Orion are both original mechs that were released along side the Rifleman and the Warhammer.

Yep but PGI's vision of them is more in line with the unseen than the original BT art. Mind you, I'm not complaining.

[Sephlock]

Nauht, on 08 June 2013 - 12:30 AM, said:

Yep but PGI's vision of them is more in line with the unseen than the original BT art. Mind you, I'm not complaining.

The first one fits pretty well (although I was really looking forward to the urbamech-in-an-exosuit look) but the second... come on man, no shoulder boxes, no warhammer.

And yes, that means that I reject that travesty of a Battlemech that Nicolai Malthus piloted. No shoulder cylinder = not a Summoner.

[AlexEss]

Also if anyone think that this is not a current thing... Just ask Blizzard about the Warhound... .. .

Also there are at least one, maybe two companies in Japan that own rights to produce Macross based video games. So i'd guess it would be a very pricey thing to license, and unless someone know the full extent of the deals between HG/FASA/CgL it is unknown if there are any kind of restrictions in that deal (not uncommon, like how PGI can not produce anything mech related beyond the computer game.)

Any way, as i said before why even bother with the unseen/reseen when they have hundreds of other mechs to pick from and especially as in all honesty the clan mechs are so much more known today then the old anime mechs.

[Adridos]

Nauht, on 08 June 2013 - 12:30 AM, said:

Yep but PGI's vision of them is more in line with the unseen than the original BT art. Mind you, I'm not complaining.

...you guys are so delusional, but who am I to ruin your illusions?

Also, as far as Harmony Gold stands, could it really out-sue us? I mean, all we'd have to do is go back to Studio Nue and buy the license for those designs. Then it's just a matter of waving middle finger in their general direction should they ever open their mouth, since Japan court has already decided that FASA was in the right all along and they don't own the rights.

[AlexEss]

Adridos, on 08 June 2013 - 03:31 AM, said:

...you guys are so delusional, but who am I to ruin your illusions?

Also, as far as Harmony Gold stands, could it really out-sue us? I mean, all we'd have to do is go back to Studio Nue and buy the license for those designs. Then it's just a matter of waving middle finger in their general direction should they ever open their mouth, since Japan court has already decided that FASA was in the right all along and they don't own the rights.

Sure, i'l rustle up a few mil to do that and then broker a deal with Catalyst so they can draw up a new deal with PGI (a few hundred k more in legal costs) Sounds like a walk in the park to me.

Also they only came to the conclusion that FASA was without blame in regards to infringing on HG license. That is not the same thing as PGI being able to use the unseen in a video-game.

[Adridos]

AlexEss, on 08 June 2013 - 03:49 AM, said:

Also they only came to the conclusion that FASA was without blame in regards to infringing on HG license.

As far as the Japan court goes, they said that it was really Studio Nue (from whom' FASA purchased them) who had the right to sell those designs and not the ones the HG has got the right from.