94 replies to this topic

[NRP]

People will always complain.

[redreaper]

shabowie, on 07 June 2013 - 05:19 PM, said:

Totally disagree. I recently made a few runs in a 4xASRM Stalker that had 4 medium lasers. In my best round I ran through over 500 SRMs and did only 800 damage, with a large percentage of my missiles hitting. That is far too weak. A .1 damage increase would be laughable, it's only .6 damage per SRM6 volley and that damage is spread all over the target mech.

Maybe you are right but i cant help but get the feeling many people here are asking for srms buffs cause they want their old cheese builds to work gain id revise my suggestion to multiple 0.1 increases untill we reach the point where srms stalker ,cents ,splatcats return and are showing up in numbers again then tone tone it down one or 2 points to reach a level of balance.

Edited by redreaper, 07 June 2013 - 06:08 PM.

[Fate 6]

PanchoTortilla, on 07 June 2013 - 11:14 AM, said:

I fail to see how trading 40, 45, 60 pts of pin point dmg to 1 location for 90 pts of dmg to a single component is any real improvement.

90 pts of damage to a single component with missiles means you are at pretty much point blank. PPCs do 40 or more pinpoint damage from at least 450m (45 damage at even further for 2ERPPCs+Gauss). I'd much rather have 72+ damage alphas if it actually has counterplay like staying farther away or running. You don't run from PPCs, you hide.

[Fate 6]

redreaper, on 07 June 2013 - 05:52 PM, said:

Maybe you are right but i cant help but get the feeling many people here are asking for srms buffs cause they want their old cheese builds to work gain id revise my suggestion to multiple 0.1 increases untill we reach the point where srms stalker ,cents ,splatcats return and are showing up in numbers again then tone tone it down one or 2 points to reach a level of balance.

SRM Stalkers are fine, it's not like Stalkers are really great brawlers. The only thing they kill effectively is slow heavies and assaults. Splatcats are a 1-trick pony. Cents are a giant ? because the chassis seems to be very durable despite its huge model and I have to think that the hitboxes are bugged (I own and play all 4 cents, they last forever in fights), but because it is a medium and mediums are currently underpowered we can't really touch it.

[ByteHacker]

As a Cent CN9-A pilot,
I personally think that SRMs are pretty powerful right now(The spread and pattern buff). With enough practice, you can even hit light mechs trying to assault you. I can usually take on a DAKKA jager build on my own given the right range of brawling <270 metres.

I disagree how people say Mediums are rubbish. I personally dislike piloting heavy mechs or assault mechs. The speed is too slow for my liking. I prefer a hit and run tactic, not the light mech pinch and flee tactic. Just stick around the assault mechs, and when the time is right, pop out and unload your 3x6 srms (27 dmg) fire 2 lasers and run away and find cover. If they do infact realize that you are attacking them and decide to return fire, twist your torso and give them your arms. Repeat cycle until the enemy is dead, then move on to the next one and repeat.

Don't get me wrong here. I am not opposing to the damage buff. I more than welcome it to go back to 2.5 damage. All I am saying is that mediums running srms in the current state are not to underestimated. Sometimes people start complaining how killing centurion is even harder than killing a heavy mech when I play.

[MustrumRidcully]

TheMightyWashburn, on 07 June 2013 - 09:00 AM, said:

Perhaps not. But we would complain about 90 damage splat cats. Are you ******** or something?

Why would it be beneficial to trade 40 alpha boomjags or 60 alpha PPC boats for 90 alpha splat cats?

I think the damage should be increased but not this much.

I remember we used to complain about 90 damage Splatcats, but back then, SRMs still had a big spread (but not as bad as it was during the S/LRM Splash Damage Apocalypse). If that is now mostly gone, they might not be quite as devestating as they were back then.

I would probably just start with setting SRMs at 2 damage per missile. Maybe just because that's the canon damage value, even though that damage value should be meaningless when weapons fire 2.5+ times as often as they did by table top rules...

[xenoglyph]

+1 for SRM buff

[Miekael]

Up missile damage!

[Mycrus]

I would rather fight splat cats / streak cats / lurm dogs than pee pee cee hurs...

[xenoglyph]

SRMs need a buff

[Zyllos]

2.0 damage for SRMs and 1.5 for SSRMs then add ripple firing for more aiming.

Pin point accuracy will still be an issue (but not for SRMs/SSRMs due to natural spread).

[armyof1]

SRMs should have been given 2.0 damage months ago, but here we are today and still nothing. And no goddarn ripple fire for crying out loud, if you're going to both buff and nerf a weapon then you could just have left it alone.

Edited by armyof1, 27 June 2013 - 06:27 AM.

[Kaldor]

Lefty Lucy, on 07 June 2013 - 11:36 AM, said:

The reason why splat cats were so crazy was because of SRM pattern and how splash damage artificially multiplied damage dealt per missile. I think 2.5/missile would be pretty reasonable with the current 5 cm blast radius and SRM pattern.

MuonNeutrino, on 07 June 2013 - 02:59 PM, said:

Thing about old SRMs was, they weren't 2.5 damage per missile, they were 2.5 damage per missile *plus ridiculous buggy splash damage*, and even *then* they were only slightly OP. I have a feeling that 2.5 without buggy splash would be nowhere near OP.

Don't focus on the numbers. Remember the role SRMs played in the meta as it existed before the alpha/sniper craze. SRM damage should be set to whatever level is required so that they are powerful enough to re-balance the meta. If that means 2.5 damage per missile, so be it. If that means *3* damage per missile, so be it.

This is heresy. You cannot give the anti missile trolls facts and reason to consider. They simply will ignore them, fabricate insane reasoning that they deem is correct in their small minds and continue to cry about something that is simply not possibly anymore due to changes in mechanics. I gave up posting facts and reason. The whiners will always whine.

Bring SRMs back to 2.5.

Please

[jakucha]

Kaldor, on 27 June 2013 - 06:36 AM, said:

Bring SRMs back to 2.5.

Please

They need to be careful about how they buff SRMs. We simply do not need to go back to splatcat and SRM spam, it will be taking a step backward and repeating another PPC type of situation. This is coming from someone who's been using a 4sp lately.

Edited by jakucha, 27 June 2013 - 06:39 AM.

[Kaldor]

jakucha, on 27 June 2013 - 06:38 AM, said:

They need to be careful about how they buff SRMs. We simply do not need to go back to splatcat and SRM spam, it will be taking a step backward and repeating another PPC type of situation. This is coming from someone who's been using a 4sp lately.

Simply not possible. The change in pattern mechanics as well as "splash" will effectively keep the boaters in check. Everyone looks at the raw damage number.

Look at the reality of it:
They have to get close, less than 100m to be effective.
Large amounts of ammo to be effective, which is very explosive.
Relatively weak weapon points that are fairly easy to shoot off.
Generally run XLs, so side torso weakness exists.
With current flight patterns it will be difficult to get all missiles on a single location even with Artemis.
Easy to kill at range.

Think about these things. I was a big SplatCat runner. I know their weaknesses. If you let one get in close, its going to hurt, but with the long range meta we have going, in combination with seismic, its still hard to really close on a target to get those clean kill shots.

What the heck am I doing? Posting facts and reason again? Please ignore this...

[jakucha]

Kaldor, on 27 June 2013 - 06:49 AM, said:

Simply not possible. The change in pattern mechanics as well as "splash" will effectively keep the boaters in check. Everyone looks at the raw damage number.

Look at the reality of it:
They have to get close, less than 100m to be effective.
Large amounts of ammo to be effective, which is very explosive.
Relatively weak weapon points that are fairly easy to shoot off.
Generally run XLs, so side torso weakness exists.
With current flight patterns it will be difficult to get all missiles on a single location even with Artemis.
Easy to kill at range.

Think about these things. I was a big SplatCat runner. I know their weaknesses. If you let one get in close, its going to hurt, but with the long range meta we have going, in combination with seismic, its still hard to really close on a target to get those clean kill shots.

What the heck am I doing? Posting facts and reason again? Please ignore this...

Any decent splatcat pilot would just wait until his teammates are up close before he moved it as to not be focused down. Back when they did more damage they were blatantly OP and could kill you faster than any PPC hoarder now. All that was even worse when they dropped in groups. The only map they're not great on is Alpine Peaks.

Like Billy mentioned below, the changed heat system could be a way to balance it though.

Edited by jakucha, 27 June 2013 - 06:59 AM.

[BillyM]

Heat stacking of anything beyond 3 SRM launchers (regardless of size, to avoid the 3srm6/3srm4 builds).

Bam... boating problem solved.

(now we can have 2.0dmg please?)

--billyM

Edited by BillyM, 27 June 2013 - 07:00 AM.

[Lykaon]

TheMightyWashburn, on 07 June 2013 - 09:00 AM, said:

Perhaps not. But we would complain about 90 damage splat cats. Are you ******** or something?

Why would it be beneficial to trade 40 alpha boomjags or 60 alpha PPC boats for 90 alpha splat cats?

I think the damage should be increased but not this much.

90? you do recall the reason why the blast damage was removed from missiles don't you?

6 x SRM 6's at 2.5 damage per missile is 90 now add in 3.5 meter splash damage to EACH missile that hits on average three distinct body locations with initial damage + splash and those Catapults were actually dishing out closer to 150 with a solid hit and 90 with glancing hits.

And even then that damage was spread over the target and was still not as efficent as 6 PPCs that kill assault mechs in 2 salvos by placing 120 points all in one spot in under 5 seconds.

After playing PPC Alpha Strikers Online for the past month I would welcome 90 damage alphas that by the nature of the weapon system can't put all the damage on the head of a pin.

[MaddMaxx]

Fate 6, on 08 June 2013 - 01:17 AM, said:

90 pts of damage to a single component with missiles means you are at pretty much point blank. PPCs do 40 or more pinpoint damage from at least 450m (45 damage at even further for 2ERPPCs+Gauss). I'd much rather have 72+ damage alphas if it actually has counterplay like staying farther away or running. You don't run from PPCs, you hide.

Spread all over is a tad overstated. If that 90 even spreads to 2 component, then you actually have twice the pinpoint firepower of the 4 PPC, 3 PPC/Gauss builds.

How long before that filters through to the brains of the Min-Max'rs and you begin facing 2 x 45 damage based component pinpoint shots from +/- 140m.

I would leave a Mod slot open to allow for a decent defense.

[DocBach]

SRMs should be set at 2 and see how they do. Putting them up to 2.5 will let Clan SRM-6s which weigh 1.5 tons have insane amounts of damage for 1.5 tons.