43 replies to this topic

[Pinselborste]

currently, the machinegun acts like a laser that needs ammo and has to be aimed forever on target to achive its full dps, additionally it also has a huge spread.

curent stats for the mg are the following:

range 120/240
damage 0.08
damage per second 0.8
shots per second 10
heat 0
ammo per ton 2000
damage per ton of ammo 160
has random spread
is a hitscan weapon like a laser


i would suggest to change it to something like this.

range 120/240
damage 0.3
damage per second 1.2
shots per second 4
heat 0.05 - 0.1
ammo per ton 500
damage per ton of ammo 150
no random spread
uses projectile speed like the other ballistic weapons

projectile speed maybe 20% more than the one of the ac2.

[General Taskeen]

Increase damage to 0.8, Reduce Heat to 0, reduce ammo to 200, Cool down 0.4 and you basically have the MW3 MG. (160 Damage Per Ton of Ammo)

Or alternatively, 0.3, 0.2 Cool Down.

That way it leaves room for LMG, HMG:

HMG - 1.2 Damage, Heat 0, Ammo 100 (Possibly change to 150), CD 0.4 (3 DPS) - 120 Damage Per Ton
LMG - 0.4 Damage, Heat 0, Ammo 200 (Possibly change to 300), CD 0.4 (1 DPS) - 80 Damage Per Ton (LMG's are better in array's)

Now let's look at that damage with Machine Gun Array's

1 MGA - 4xMG's - 8 DPS (ammo will disappear quite quickly )
1 HMGA - 4xHMG's - 12 DPS (nice)
1 LMGA - 4xLMG's - 4 DPS

12 MG Piranha Stock - .5 Tons of Ammo (100 shells) - 24 DPS - The ammo would literally disappear in seconds, but it will also live up to its canon description "removing rear armor in seconds."

Alternatively, the MG, HMG and LMG CD's can be adjusted to find the sweet spots for each. And DPS is also relative, since the damage is very low, and a ballistic type weapon depends on the round hitting and also in the same spot to maximum effectiveness.

Edited by General Taskeen, 07 June 2013 - 12:52 PM.

[MustrumRidcully]

I am not opposed to changing the mechanics of the MG significantly.

But I think what it needs the most is to fire short bursts.

Say:
Recycle Time: 2.25 seconds
Firing Duration: 0.75 seconds in which it fires 75 bullets (one bullet every 0.01 seconds, which is the "DAKKA" it is supposed to have now.) The duration is fixed and is triggered by a single press of the fire button.
In the 0.75 seconds it might fire 75 bullets, 0.035 damage each. That's 2.625 damage.
Total Cooldown: 3 seconds
Effective DPS: 0.875

That's just a tiny bit more DPs then the MG has now, but it also removes one big problem the MG suffers from - forcing the mech pilot to constantly track his foes. Any time spent twisting away from incoming damage is damage lost. This is a serious defensive drawback.
The relative short cooldown and the beam duration still force the pilot to track his target often, which is still a drawback, but not even close as severe as now. The MG would basically be a lower DPS and heat-free Small Laser that needs ammo (and still a lot.)

I would probably remove the hefty bonus on crits, and lower the crit damage bonus from 12.5 to 3. Or just go to a straight "double damage against structure and components" (Which means that you also kill a mech faster if you ever get through his armor.)

[Pinselborste]

problem with 0.4 cd is that it would basicly fire at the same rate as the ac2.

it should faster than the ac2, its called machine gun after all the reason i suggested the 0.3 damage at 0.25 seconds cooldown together with a very small ammount of heat is that it shouldnt outclass the small laser and should stay unique with its high firerate, and the heat wont affect mechs that use it as main weapon like the spider since the engine heatsinks are enough to cool them anyway.

MustrumRidcully, on 07 June 2013 - 11:26 AM, said:

Recycle Time: 2.25 seconds
Firing Duration: 0.75 seconds in which it fires 75 bulletsEffective DPS: 0.875

it would than be just a renamed small laser with less damage, it should be more like the other ballistics.

Edited by Pinselborste, 07 June 2013 - 11:32 AM.

[MustrumRidcully]

Pinselborste, on 07 June 2013 - 11:29 AM, said:

it would than be just a renamed small laser with less damage, it should be more like the other ballistics.

I am not convinced it's doable to have it behave like other ballistics. Especially if the engine doesn't get rid of its "pin-affects-fire-rate" problem that plagues MGs and AC/2s already.

[WolvesX]

MustrumRidcully, on 07 June 2013 - 11:26 AM, said:

I am not opposed to changing the mechanics of the MG significantly.

But I think what it needs the most is to fire short bursts.

Say:
Recycle Time: 2.25 seconds
Firing Duration: 0.75 seconds in which it fires 75 bullets (one bullet every 0.01 seconds, which is the "DAKKA" it is supposed to have now.) The duration is fixed and is triggered by a single press of the fire button.
In the 0.75 seconds it might fire 75 bullets, 0.035 damage each. That's 2.625 damage.
Total Cooldown: 3 seconds
Effective DPS: 0.875

That's just a tiny bit more DPs then the MG has now, but it also removes one big problem the MG suffers from - forcing the mech pilot to constantly track his foes. Any time spent twisting away from incoming damage is damage lost. This is a serious defensive drawback.
The relative short cooldown and the beam duration still force the pilot to track his target often, which is still a drawback, but not even close as severe as now. The MG would basically be a lower DPS and heat-free Small Laser that needs ammo (and still a lot.)

I would probably remove the hefty bonus on crits, and lower the crit damage bonus from 12.5 to 3. Or just go to a straight "double damage against structure and components" (Which means that you also kill a mech faster if you ever get through his armor.)

Nice idea.

[MustrumRidcully]

Pinselborste, on 07 June 2013 - 11:29 AM, said:

it would than be just a renamed small laser with less damage, it should be more like the other ballistics.

If it helps - think of it as an extreme-ultra AC. It fires extremely fast, but then needs to unjam or cool off (not because the mech got hot, but because the gun barrels are getting too hot.)

[ManDaisy]

I like 8 beats per second more then 4. Sounds more musical.

[Pinselborste]

MustrumRidcully, on 07 June 2013 - 11:51 AM, said:

If it helps - think of it as an extreme-ultra AC. It fires extremely fast, but then needs to unjam or cool off (not because the mech got hot, but because the gun barrels are getting too hot.)

so the small laser is also an exreme-ultra AC ?

[MustrumRidcully]

Pinselborste, on 07 June 2013 - 11:56 AM, said:

so the small laser is also an exreme-ultra AC ?

No, a small laser clearly shoots a beam, that's something completely different than a stream of bullets.

At least it looks like something completely different. Who cares what it is under the hood except the devs.

[tenderloving]

ManDaisy, on 07 June 2013 - 11:56 AM, said:

I like 8 beats per second more then 4. Sounds more musical.

Trance music is like 140-180 bpm (<3bps) so 8 would be ridiculous.

[General Taskeen]

Pinselborste, on 07 June 2013 - 11:29 AM, said:

problem with 0.4 cd is that it would basicly fire at the same rate as the ac2.

Well the AC/2 and MG did the same damage in a turn in Battle Tech, so it makes sense?

Here is also a video of the MW3 Machine Gun. Keep in mind this thing had a CD of 0.625 and note how fast it fires still since there is no latency accounted for.



Also note, that it took only 10-12 seconds to destroy an armor section with only 2 MG's. In this case, destroying a leg is fatal in MW3.

[Rino88ex]

I propose:
range 300/700 - 300/700
damage 0.1 - 0.2
damage per second 3 - 2
shots per second 30 - 10
heat per second 0.25 - 0.05
ammo per ton 3000 - 2000
when mounted more than one machine guns, I propose a form and aesthetics as the helicopter Minigun, like this:

Edited by Rino88ex, 15 July 2013 - 12:20 PM.

[Obelus]

Sounds like someones working with a weed wacker.

[The pessimistic optimist]

Rino88ex, on 15 July 2013 - 12:07 PM, said:

I propose:
range 300/700 300/700
damage 0.1 0.2
damage per second 3 2
shots per second 30 10
heat per second 0.5 0.02
ammo per ton 3000 2000
when mounted more than one machine guns, I propose a form and aesthetics as the helicopter Minigun, like this:

No no no this


This is the kind of gun that would be on a battlemech.

Edited by SirSmokes, 15 July 2013 - 12:13 PM.

[PanzerMagier]

Compared to weapons like the medium laser/ small laser...
You people are asking a lot from a 0.5 ton weapon. I'd say they're pretty damn useful now as a 0.5 ton weapon, everyone who's still bitching just want to see if they can sneak in their 4mg spider to become broken.

tl;dr
Shut up you noise makers.

SirSmokes, on 15 July 2013 - 12:12 PM, said:

No no no this


This is the kind of gun that would be on a battlemech.

Additionally, that doesn't look like it weighs half a ton.

[Steadfast]

I weep for humanity. This weapon is not for destroying enemy mechs. It is mayhaps for finishing them of (at least in MWO) but thats it. I really do not understand what you all want from a weapon that weighs so little and according to every current discription in the game world is per se no real mechwarfare weapon.
I honestly do not understand why you stubbornly ask for bufs for this trollweapon - the MG is NOT the ultimate Mechkiller. It is a distraction and that it does well currently.
all imo, yours obviously varies.
cheers
Daniel

Edited by Steadfast, 15 July 2013 - 12:37 PM.

[The pessimistic optimist]

PanzerMagier, on 15 July 2013 - 12:31 PM, said:

Compared to weapons like the medium laser/ small laser...
You people are asking a lot from a 0.5 ton weapon. I'd say they're pretty damn useful now as a 0.5 ton weapon, everyone who's still bitching just want to see if they can sneak in their 4mg spider to become broken.

tl;dr
Shut up you noise makers.


Additionally, that doesn't look like it weighs half a ton.

I am pretty sure in 1000 year we could build it under half a ton. You do know over time we learn to build thing better and more efficiency.

[Steadfast]

SirSmokes, on 15 July 2013 - 12:37 PM, said:

I am pretty sure in 1000 year we could build it under half a ton. You do know over time we learn to build thing better and more efficiency.

Yah, so will be the armour that laughs about the same weapon regarless of how tiny you built it, it will still ping most of the time. So, whats your point?

[General Taskeen]

Steadfast, on 15 July 2013 - 12:36 PM, said:

I weep for humanity. This weapon is not for destroying enemy mechs. It is mayhaps for finishing them of (at least in MWO) but thats it. I really do not understand what you all want from a weapon that weighs so little and according to every current discription in the game world is per se no real mechwarfare weapon.
I honestly do not understand why you stubbornly ask for bufs for this trollweapon - the MG is NOT the ultimate Mechkiller. It is a distraction and that it does well currently.
all imo, yours obviously varies.
cheers
Daniel

Its a Mech Killer.



Special Snowflakes.