81 replies to this topic

[Divine Retribution]

But the 8Q is a designated PPC boat from the factory... Not boating PPCs would require a radical shift from stock, another complaint seen on the forums. Quite the quandary....

On a semi-related note: I run two matches. One match is an 8Q with 4 PPCs. The other match is a HGN-733P with 4 PPCs. The 8Q gets "gg" and "nice shot". The 733P with little to no poptarting (basically ran as a larger 8Q) gets nasty comments and accusations. The aim is more difficult with the HGN because of arm/torso convergence. Just thought I'd point out how arbitrarily the decision between cheese and perfectly normal is made, as I find it rather amusing.

[Gralzeim]

If they introduce those scaling heat penalties for multiples of the same weapon, they need to do so very carefully. More than two PPCs are really the only 'problem' weapon due to their range and front-loaded damage. Large lasers aren't as big of a problem because turning and torso twisting spreads that damage out. Large pulse lasers run even hotter and are short ranged, so that's not a huge deal either. It's just PPCs that might need that heat scaling.

And only on more than two. Two PPCs/ERPPCs is fine. And this is only if they do that scaling heat thing they mentioned awhile back. If they do it for every weapon, it's going to unintentionally screw over other setups. How many builds run more than one medium laser? A lot.

AC/20s are fine, Gauss are fine, you have to sacrifice a lot to fit those into the mechs that can carry more than one. Dual AC/20 Jagers are squishy or slow (usually squishy), dual AC/20 Catapults are slow (can't use XL). Gauss is similar. Heavy, low ammo per ton, and Gauss Rifles are destroyed easily by damage. And I don't see any issues with other "boats" as they all have drawbacks.

And the OP must have forgotten that rediculous 'boating' has been in MechWarrior games for a long time. Remember packing a mech full of machine guns and shredding an assault mech in seconds? (this was MW2 I think?) or a ton of flamers in MW3 and melting a mech to death, etc.

Edited by Gralzeim, 09 June 2013 - 07:49 AM.

[Zerberus]

Panzerman03, on 07 June 2013 - 08:44 PM, said:

I prefer a balanced, varied build like Gauss + 4PPC. Boaters are no-skill suckers.

[Jack Spade Ward]

BootHands, on 09 June 2013 - 07:34 AM, said:

I don't play boats (well,I've got a joke flamer boat, but nobody is crying about those. I don't play the QQ inspiring boats anyway). I'm mostly a Spider pilot.

That being said boating absolutely is a play style. Just because you're butt-hurt that you failed to dodge an alpha from a 6-PPC stalker a few times, doesn't mean that it is an OP build, or a "noob" build or something that doesn't require skill. I've killed plenty of PPC stalkers, just by dodging the alpha chewing on them when they're down from the overheat.

Try to learn something with me here, the best builds that were in MW universe, were a balanced one, only the very few 100 tons mechs could do SOME boating, very few!!!! A Stalker wit 4-6 PPC was impossible, a jagger with 2 AC20, same thing, and a K2 with 2 gauss in a place that could only fit MG or, in the best way, an AC2, its simply ridiculous!


And let me guess, you have a spider with a PPC... acording to lore, that is IMPOSSIBLE! And when i run my jenner, i love to get those spiders... easy kills

[BootHands]

Spadejack, on 09 June 2013 - 08:02 AM, said:

Try to learn something with me here, the best builds that were in MW universe, were a balanced one, only the very few 100 tons mechs could do SOME boating, very few!!!! A Stalker wit 4-6 PPC was impossible, a jagger with 2 AC20, same thing, and a K2 with 2 gauss in a place that could only fit MG or, in the best way, an AC2, its simply ridiculous!


And let me guess, you have a spider with a PPC... acording to lore, that is IMPOSSIBLE! And when i run my jenner, i love to get those spiders... easy kills

I play a Spider with 3 med lasers. Not everyone who isn't crying about PPCs uses them. I've played a PPC spider before, and I thought it was boring to just poke heavies/assaults from across the map before trying to hide before they counter attacked me. Plus, as you pointed out, PPC lights die super fast to lights running just about anything else. It's almost as though the PPC is balanced!

Lore is irrelevant compared to game play and build diversity.

[Sixnations]

They just need to bring back over cooking urself... anyone remember that in caustic valley... over heat a few times then BOOM u killed urself... would be nice to mod that to counter excessive boating.

[Belorion]

A spider with a ppc is not impossible. Did you actually play the older games you claim to have played?

[DarkDevilDancer]

Sixnations, on 09 June 2013 - 08:47 AM, said:

They just need to bring back over cooking urself... anyone remember that in caustic valley... over heat a few times then BOOM u killed urself... would be nice to mod that to counter excessive boating.

That's still in the game, try it out if you don't believe me.

[Belorion]

Damage for high heat also exists. Go in the testing grounds override your heat shutdown and see if your internals don't start getting damaged.

[Thumper3]

DarkDevilDancer, on 09 June 2013 - 08:56 AM, said:

That's still in the game, try it out if you don't believe me.

This.

Just keep pressing the override and firing away........ you'll go boom.

[Jack Spade Ward]

Belorion, on 09 June 2013 - 08:48 AM, said:

A spider with a ppc is not impossible. Did you actually play the older games you claim to have played?

I can only remember one light with a PPC, the panther

[Jolly Llama]

I love how people whine about boating. It is a perfectly legit play style because it specializes a mech into support roles and single movement styles. Usually engine and armor must be sacrificed to hang guns on your legged tank. Most boats are a slow glass cannon and just because you are to lazy to flank for a kill gives you no right to complain.

Personally, I love to get shot at by a boat. I just go and take them out like I would a machine gun bunker. Use cover to move in close and hit them in the back. BTW, I have played with twin ac20 jagers and been killed my fair share of times by skilled light pilots. I say end the tears on this subject and learn to mix infantry and armor tactics to play against specialist builds, or you can just go and play World of Tanks.

[BootHands]

geodeath, on 09 June 2013 - 11:09 AM, said:

I love how people whine about boating. It is a perfectly legit play style because it specializes a mech into support roles and single movement styles. Usually engine and armor must be sacrificed to hang guns on your legged tank. Most boats are a slow glass cannon and just because you are to lazy to flank for a kill gives you no right to complain.

Personally, I love to get shot at by a boat. I just go and take them out like I would a machine gun bunker. Use cover to move in close and hit them in the back. BTW, I have played with twin ac20 jagers and been killed my fair share of times by skilled light pilots. I say end the tears on this subject and learn to mix infantry and armor tactics to play against specialist builds, or you can just go and play World of Tanks.

WoT also has lights. Someone has to be there to challenge all the Löwes.

[PhoenixD]

You didn't see as much boating in the TT game because there different weapons don't add a hit penalty. In a real time game every weapon has a different travel time, so you have to adjust aim accordingly. That doesn't happen in TT. Stock boats include: Swayback, Nova, Supernova, Awesome, Warhawk (4 ERPPCS!) Hunchback IIC (2 UAC/20s on a 50 ton mech!) Catapult, etc. And limiting hardpoint sizes is no cure-all. MW4 proved that.

[Jabilo]

So your answer to the game play and balance issues in MWO is an honesty system?

Players identify for themselves builds that seem "unfair" or "overpowered" and then decide not to use them.

Instead, in a spirit of sportsmanship they deliberately use builds that are underpowered, ineffective and difficult to use - in order to give the other guy a chance.

Afterwards we give the other team a firm and hearty handshake and all jump in to a hot and steamy communal bath.

I like your optimism, but somehow I feel it's just not going to work out!

Edited by Jabilo, 09 June 2013 - 01:31 PM.

[beamsurfer17]

ok now that i knoe what boating is i am guilty for it with 3 large lasers note i had to put in a smaller motor but i also had to deal with less armor and over heating note with boaters sneak up behind them and blast away less armor allmost none atlis boats are easy kills thats y i boat i take out the big boats by that time im dead any ways

[Jolly Llama]

Ok, here is how we solve this "boating" issue...

Everybody is in the same size perfectly hexigonal mech with identical hit boxes.

The legs and head are the same size.

We all have 100 hitpoints per hit box.

Each mech has one small laser and an AMS (just because you have to have on useless piece of equipment.)

Only one module slot for everyone and only seismic sensors are available.

We all play in a 1000 by 1000 mile perfectly flat map with a black ground and blue sky.

Everybody is painted bright orange with a target on their center torso.

Game fixed, no more tears.

[Headshot39]

apparently 90% of you have missed one basic tenant MW universe is a feudal one..mech pilots were supposed to be the knights of same...instead of exploiting and playing the game NOT as intended! sadly only winning the moment means anything to you in stead of winning the war. not stupid seeming acts at the time in battle Always come back to bite you in the azz.

[Jolly Llama]

Headshot39, on 09 June 2013 - 01:47 PM, said:

apparently 90% of you have missed one basic tenant MW universe is a feudal one..mech pilots were supposed to be the knights of same...instead of exploiting and playing the game NOT as intended! sadly only winning the moment means anything to you in stead of winning the war. not stupid seeming acts at the time in battle Always come back to bite you in the azz.

Riiiiiggghhhht...

And in the video game world, this is just an FPS with armor.

If you want honor and all that King and Country ****, join the Army. Or you could play Dungeons and Dragons Online if you want roleplaying...that is FTP too.

[Headshot39]

and that will always be the difference between a person and murderious honorless psychopathic normal human.