97 replies to this topic

[Pando]

All,

I've reached out to see if clarifications, explanations and rational could be shed upon us regarding many things we've read from "reliable" sources published on behalf of MWO which seem to contradict what we're seeing from ATD sessions.

I'll post everything here when/if it becomes available to me.

[Pando]

So back on topic, what does everyone our clanners think about the information I added to the OP regarding what we've been told v/s what we've been given?

Edited by Pando, 09 June 2013 - 04:22 AM.

[GoaHead]

I dont care when the clans come because im Steiner

[Pando]

Pando, on 09 June 2013 - 03:57 AM, said:

So back on topic, what does everyone our clanners think about the information I added to the OP regarding what we've been told v/s what we've been given?

GoaHead, on 09 June 2013 - 04:21 AM, said:

I dont care when the clans come because im Steiner

Fixed with a line-through. Everyone changed to our clanners.

[Prisma]

Not being a lore hardcore person, just a fan of the games, I'm little puzzled about the train of thought that seems to be going through many people's heads here.

I was going to write something about how there most likely won't be any "clan invasion" event where people could join in on, unless of course the invasion means just normal team vs team match on the normal maps and nothing more epic or glorious than that.

Rather, the most obvious thing is this:

When the clans come, 99% of all players in MWO will go around in clan mechs, there won't be this "honorably battle against Inner Sphere" because there's nobody that won't go for that new thing, that new technology and more advanced mechs, it'll be clan vs clan matches for at least a good couple months. Out of those matches, probably nearly half the mechs will be Timberwolves (don't kid yourself thinking it won't be, it's too iconic). Some will try to kid themselves and say, I will definitely only play IS, or that there will be those other people who are hardcore IS ....nah, come on, it's unlikely. People have been playing IS mechs for a year. Apart from rare few, everyone else will go around in clan mechs. It becomes especially likely if clan tech is in any way superior in MWO. Who in their right mind would stick to "outdated, subpar" IS mechs they've been using forever? Unless PGI of course puts in some major bonus incentive for people to stick to their IS mechs, but that would probably raise massive outcry or some sort.

It won't be a birth of a new era of epic Clan vs IS, at least not at first. Apart from that Steiner fellow, are there really many people here who don't want to get their hands on clan mechs? I don't think even he'll be so steadfast when the time comes

Naturally I could be wrong and PGI has some amazing plans coming up that they're keeping secret. That would be very nice and welcome, but we'll see.

Edited by Prisma, 09 June 2013 - 05:48 AM.

[Gremlich Johns]

Irrespective of the fact that I prefer tp play Clan, PGI should have just set the game in 3025 and eliminated half of their headache. Wolf's Dragoons would have been an easier thing to implement than four invading Clans.

[Pando]

Gremlich Johns, on 09 June 2013 - 06:14 AM, said:

Irrespective of the fact that I prefer tp play Clan, PGI should have just set the game in 3025 and eliminated half of their headache. Wolf's Dragoons would have been an easier thing to implement than four invading Clans.

I would have rather they doubled their staff during 2012 so we would have our clans in 2013. Instead of doubling staff in 2013 to bring us clans in 2014 when we were told 2013 from SEVERAL sources. I think this rule of thumb (pardon the sexism) would work well for any date PGI missed.

Think, if they recruited double their staff in Q1 2012, we would be sitting pretty with community warfare, AND the clans right now. Instead, open beta was pushed 3 months back, community warfare never happened 3 months after open beta, clans never happened in 2012, staff was doubled in 2013...clans pushed back to 2014....see the problem? They dropped the ball!

Edited by Pando, 09 June 2013 - 06:20 AM.

[Draco Harkins]

Eric Pryde, on 08 June 2013 - 11:41 AM, said:

Zerberus, ALL of my comments were directed at Dracko. You my friend are the one who needs to improve your reading comprehension. Nice try at being an internet forum bully however.

Its DRACO, if you're going to offend some one that didnt offend you at least get their name right trashborn. You really need a lesson on manners, the IS will comply. And thank you for reminded me why i didnt go clanner and why jade falcons are to be destroyed on sight.

I pity you as a person.

Edited by Draco Harkins, 09 June 2013 - 11:17 AM.

[Pando]

Draco Harkins, on 09 June 2013 - 11:16 AM, said:

Its DRACO, if you're going to offend some one that didnt offend you at least get their name right trashborn. You really need a lesson on manners, the IS will comply. And thank you for reminded me why i didnt go clanner and why jade falcons are to be destroyed on sight.

I pity you as a person.

Yes, because intelligent inner-sphere barbarians regularly wage war over spelling bees.

[Gremlich Johns]

Pando, on 09 June 2013 - 06:16 AM, said:

I would have rather they doubled their staff during 2012 so we would have our clans in 2013. Instead of doubling staff in 2013 to bring us clans in 2014 when we were told 2013 from SEVERAL sources. I think this rule of thumb (pardon the sexism) would work well for any date PGI missed.

Think, if they recruited double their staff in Q1 2012, we would be sitting pretty with community warfare, AND the clans right now. Instead, open beta was pushed 3 months back, community warfare never happened 3 months after open beta, clans never happened in 2012, staff was doubled in 2013...clans pushed back to 2014....see the problem? They dropped the ball!

But they said "1st person view only" too.....

[Featherwood]

Gremlich Johns, on 09 June 2013 - 05:47 PM, said:

But they said "1st person view only" too.....

Pando, on 09 June 2013 - 06:16 AM, said:

....see the problem? They dropped the ball!

I agree with Gremlich Johns, there are vague evidences, that summer launch will roll in-game timeline back to 3049, note Inner Sphere News updates gone. Well, honestly, I welcome it, because Clans Invasion is the most anticipated event for me and I want it to be done flawlessly. On the other hand, if Community Warfare will be poorly done, MWO will lose significant part of player base and money flow, I think, therefore Clans Invasion addon may suffer destiny of Age of Conan MMO. All this is just a speculation about probability, of course.
MWO urgently needs some motivation to be added, FPS with simplistic simulation is not enough to draw money out of players , myself for example, on regular basis. Social aspects of PVP is the (missing currently) key.

[TibsVT]

I'm telling you, November 3051 (2014). When wave 5 begins.

From the constant set backs and delays we've had I don't feel there a requirement to provide evidence short of all front line warriors were called back to vote on a new ilKhan for a year hence stopping the invasion. There has been no mention of Clan Battlemechs nor do I believe there will be for some time. So once the invasion has restarted at the above date, we will have our Clans.

Edited by KelesK, 10 June 2013 - 12:17 AM.

[Lege]

I've spent the majority of my time playing with clan mechs. Inner sphere technology is plain bad in comparison. I made some real beasts with battletech rule clan mechs. I'd like to play something close to open hard points at some point, even if just for a couple months after clan technology is fully released. If they did something like the only restriction is a full alpha won't overheat your mech, I'd like it. I know they need balance, but some mech ideas are just too fun.

[Asmosis]

Pando, on 09 June 2013 - 06:16 AM, said:

I would have rather they doubled their staff during 2012 so we would have our clans in 2013. Instead of doubling staff in 2013 to bring us clans in 2014 when we were told 2013 from SEVERAL sources. I think this rule of thumb (pardon the sexism) would work well for any date PGI missed.

Think, if they recruited double their staff in Q1 2012, we would be sitting pretty with community warfare, AND the clans right now. Instead, open beta was pushed 3 months back, community warfare never happened 3 months after open beta, clans never happened in 2012, staff was doubled in 2013...clans pushed back to 2014....see the problem? They dropped the ball!

To be fair,they have had some variation of that "now recruiting!" banner at the bottom of the page since I joined idk 4 months or so prior to open beta. There were active topics at that time about how they were recruiting due to shortage of talent in some areas.

Its a bit disappointing that clans are that far away, but in any other MMO type thing you wouldn't get an expansion that big during the beta period or at launch. From a marketing point, I don't think it makes much sense to launch two major milestone expansions at the same time either.

So long as they have constant minor (new mechs/equipment) & semi-frequent major updates (cw, clan, game types) that's what counts. Besides, whats the next major update in MechWarrior history after the clans invade? its certainly not a tech one so PGI needs some time to think something up for what would be the next expansion.

[Jakob Knight]

Lege, on 10 June 2013 - 02:53 AM, said:

I've spent the majority of my time playing with clan mechs. Inner sphere technology is plain bad in comparison. I made some real beasts with battletech rule clan mechs. I'd like to play something close to open hard points at some point, even if just for a couple months after clan technology is fully released. If they did something like the only restriction is a full alpha won't overheat your mech, I'd like it. I know they need balance, but some mech ideas are just too fun.

Since we don't know what Clan technology will be in MWO, you may want to hold your judgment on that until you see what actually is implemented. It is just as possible the Clan weaponry will be inferior to IS weaponry to counterbalance a wider option in hardpoint usage, or that hardpoint usage will be much more restricted than on IS mechs to counterbalance the more effective Clan weapons.

About the only thing you can count on is that the Clans in MWO will not be what you think they will be, and that there will be some sort of increased restrictions on Clan units, not less. Anything else would destroy competition within the game, and result in, as others have said, the entire game abandoning the Inner Sphere. Since the entire point of the game is the Inner Sphere, this isn't likely at all to happen (though we have seen the Devs alter their stated guidelines before, so the possibility does exist they might elect to simply jettison all the work done to date and restart MWO as a Clan-only game).

Well, there is one other thing you can also count on. Those who are bad at piloting Inner Sphere mechs will be bad piloting Clan mechs.

Edited by Jakob Knight, 10 June 2013 - 07:06 AM.

[Ol Dirty Bastard]

I highly doubt that they would ever jettison all the work they have done, and make the game Clan only. Theres just no way. Why put all this time and money into something that they would then simply wipe, and start new. It would be a wiser choice to simply not add clans if that was the case, as all the mechs, are already here, and the balancing of IS weapons has come as far as it has. To basically restart the entire process from step 1, just to allow people to play Clan tech would be moronic.

I do not believe that clan weaponry will be inferior to IS weapons either. Though if they do stick to lore, Clan LRMs will follow a much lower / straighter line towards targets, as they do not use them as indirect fire weapons like the IS. Aside from that I believe they will balance the Clan weapons similar to how the ratio of IS weapons are balanced as compared to TT rules. Damage and heat of IS weapons are tweaked slightly from TT, and they will more than likely apply the same ratio to the Clan weapons in order to find the proper balance from the get go. Obviously play testing will further tweak that, but I do not think we will see a decline in performance in Clan weapons.

[Khanahar]

Prisma, on 09 June 2013 - 05:41 AM, said:

Not being a lore hardcore person, just a fan of the games, I'm little puzzled about the train of thought that seems to be going through many people's heads here.

I was going to write something about how there most likely won't be any "clan invasion" event where people could join in on, unless of course the invasion means just normal team vs team match on the normal maps and nothing more epic or glorious than that.

Rather, the most obvious thing is this:

When the clans come, 99% of all players in MWO will go around in clan mechs, there won't be this "honorably battle against Inner Sphere" because there's nobody that won't go for that new thing, that new technology and more advanced mechs, it'll be clan vs clan matches for at least a good couple months. Out of those matches, probably nearly half the mechs will be Timberwolves (don't kid yourself thinking it won't be, it's too iconic). Some will try to kid themselves and say, I will definitely only play IS, or that there will be those other people who are hardcore IS ....nah, come on, it's unlikely. People have been playing IS mechs for a year. Apart from rare few, everyone else will go around in clan mechs. It becomes especially likely if clan tech is in any way superior in MWO. Who in their right mind would stick to "outdated, subpar" IS mechs they've been using forever? Unless PGI of course puts in some major bonus incentive for people to stick to their IS mechs, but that would probably raise massive outcry or some sort.

It won't be a birth of a new era of epic Clan vs IS, at least not at first. Apart from that Steiner fellow, are there really many people here who don't want to get their hands on clan mechs? I don't think even he'll be so steadfast when the time comes

Naturally I could be wrong and PGI has some amazing plans coming up that they're keeping secret. That would be very nice and welcome, but we'll see.

Surely they have thought of this. There must and will be a mechanism for ensuring not everyone switches to Clan machines instantly. I would be sad if they "balanced" Clantech and handed it to everybody, but it wouldn't be the end of the world.

A much better solution would be to restrict access in a meaningful way, by having players only be able to drop as Clanners every so often, ideally based on match victories. Dedicated Clanners can think of it as paying off bondsman debt, while IS players can dabble in Clantech separate from their main persona as an IS MechWarrior.

[Vanguard319]

as far as balance goes, since clan ferro fibrous is more effective, I would assume clan weapons to be more fragile. (they're lighter, but lose durability as a result.) this would make clan mechs tough to kill, as they are meant to be, but make them more susceptible to internal damage. I can think of good reasons to still use older IS tech as well, say low heat builds.

[Strum Wealh]

Eric Pryde, on 11 June 2013 - 02:46 PM, said:

I highly doubt that they would ever jettison all the work they have done, and make the game Clan only. Theres just no way. Why put all this time and money into something that they would then simply wipe, and start new. It would be a wiser choice to simply not add clans if that was the case, as all the mechs, are already here, and the balancing of IS weapons has come as far as it has. To basically restart the entire process from step 1, just to allow people to play Clan tech would be moronic.

I do not believe that clan weaponry will be inferior to IS weapons either. Though if they do stick to lore, Clan LRMs will follow a much lower / straighter line towards targets, as they do not use them as indirect fire weapons like the IS. Aside from that I believe they will balance the Clan weapons similar to how the ratio of IS weapons are balanced as compared to TT rules. Damage and heat of IS weapons are tweaked slightly from TT, and they will more than likely apply the same ratio to the Clan weapons in order to find the proper balance from the get go. Obviously play testing will further tweak that, but I do not think we will see a decline in performance in Clan weapons.

While I do generally agree with this, the emphasized portion (emphasis mine) is simply wrong.

Firstly, the TT rules indicate that "units armed with LRM-type weapons may fire those missiles indirectly" and "an attacker with a valid LOS to a target cannot make an LRM indirect fire attack", and do not make any restrictions on technology base with regard to this capability.
Furthermore:

• "The Artemis system has no effect on LRM missiles fired indirectly."
  
• "C3-equipped units spotting targets for or launching an LRM indirect fire attack use the LRM Indirect Fire rules, and gain no benefit from a C3 network."
  
• "The [Advanced Tactical Missile system] may not fire indirectly using the LRM Indirect Fire rules."
  
• "Once a Narc pod is attached to a target, all Narc-equipped missiles may be fired indirectly at a target without a spotter; all other standard modifiers for Indirect LRM fire apply."

Secondly, a number of Invasion-era Clan 'Mechs mount Narc Missile Beacons, including:

• Uller, Alt. Config D (available since 2890)
  
• Puma, Alt. Config. C (available since 3012)
  
• Ryoken, Alt. Config. D (available since 2930)
  
• Loki, Alt. Config. A (available since 2926)
  
• Thor, Alt. Config. B (available since 2872)
  
• Masakari, Alt. Config. B (available since 2999)

As noted above, one of the functions of the Narc Missile Beacon is to allow any 'Mech with Narc-compatible munitions to fire indirectly at a target without the presence of a spotter.
It is not difficult to imagine that a Clansman might mark a target with a narc beacon, and use indirect fire to continue to attack that target if it moves outside of LOS (as Zellbrigen does not disallow indirect fire in and of itself).

----------

Moreover, it should be noted that there are also several Invasion-era Clan 'Mechs that mount TAG (in spite of it being forbidden under Zellbrigen, under the heading of "systems that requires multiple units to operate" ), including:

• Dasher, Alt. Config. A (available since 2874)
  
• Hankyu, Prime Config. (available since 3037)
  
• Koshi, Alt. Config. A (available since 2926)
  
• Cauldron-Born, Alt. Config. B (available since 3049)
  
• Nobori-Nin, Prime Config. (available since 3049)

TAG's entire purpose is to act as a spotting aid for Arrow IV artillery, semi-guided LRMs, semi-guided Mech Mortar munitions, all of which are fired indirectly (and all of which are also forbidden by Zellbrigen).

That it is included on several 'Mechs, indlucing the Prime Configs of some of them, is telling...

Moreover, "when firing semi-guided missiles at any target in range successfully designated by a friendly TAG (at right), the attacker ignores the target movement modifier" and "when firing indirectly, also ignore indirect fire and spotter movement modifiers".

[Daneel Hazen]

I'm fine with waiting; it will allow things to mature and maybe not such an abrupt change for everyone. Something to look forward to in any case.