21 replies to this topic

[Nigitsu]

While talking to some of my EVE corporation members and mentioning how annoying it was to run into a 6 PPC Stalker, one of them mentioned something: Heat damage.

Why should we be worrying so much about nerfing PPC damage and all this other stuff, when heat really has no consequence other than just shutting you down?

In Battletech, if you did something stupid like a 6 PPC boat, and alpha striked all your heatsinks would be destroyed, and possibly your engine too. It would definitely be destroyed on the 2nd alpha strike.

An ER PPC generates 11 heat. In Battletech rules, the ER PPC generates 15 heat. Oops!
A PPC generates 8 heat. In Battletech rules, the PPC generates 10 heat. Oops!

Obviously the game's Heatsinks are scaled to deal with what PGI says is heat generation, but if the game is to follow Battletech rules/time line, then something is wrong here.

With pointing out what PGI got wrong, and why there are so many PPC boast, why not incorporate damage from going from lukewarm to thermonuclear? Seems like we'd see a lot less PPC boats if heat damage was incorporated.

Seems like an easy and simple fix to me.

Sources:

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/ER_PPC

http://www.sarna.net...rojector_Cannon

[Nigitsu]

Another thing is this. With the Victor being introduced next, chronologically, PGI has messed up.

Double Heat Sinks aren't introduced until 2567, yet the Victor is introduced in 2508.

Sources:

http://www.sarna.net...ouble_heat_sink

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Victor

[MustrumRidcully]

Quote

In Battletech, if you did something stupid like a 6 PPC boat, and alpha striked all your heatsinks would be destroyed, and possibly your engine too. It would definitely be destroyed on the 2nd alpha strike.

That is wrong. You were just likely to overheat pretty fast. If not immediately.

6 PPCs require 60 Standard Heat Sinks or 30 Double Heat Sinks to completely negate the heat.
IF you had 5 SHS too little, you'd take penalties after the first shot. If you had 10 sinks too little, you'd take a lot heftier penalties. If you had 15 too little, you'd have a chance of overheating after the first salvo. If you had 30 too little, you'd overheat instantly. (No shutdown overrides.)

A minor penalty to attack was something like a 1 point modifier on a 2d6 roll. This already a notable penalty. In addition to that, you also suffer movement speed penalties.

[Joseph Mallan]

Um... its 3050 right now. Just sayin.

[3rdworld]

Catherine Kamensky, on 08 June 2013 - 09:25 AM, said:

Another thing is this. With the Victor being introduced next, chronologically, PGI has messed up.

Double Heat Sinks aren't introduced until 2567, yet the Victor is introduced in 2508.

Sources:

http://www.sarna.net...ouble_heat_sink

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Victor

Mechs are not introduced chronologically.

[MustrumRidcully]

Catherine Kamensky, on 08 June 2013 - 09:25 AM, said:

Another thing is this. With the Victor being introduced next, chronologically, PGI has messed up.

Double Heat Sinks aren't introduced until 2567, yet the Victor is introduced in 2508.

Sources:

http://www.sarna.net...ouble_heat_sink

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Victor

You're aware that MW:O is set in 3050? That's still ~500 years after the dates you mention.

Is it early in the morning where you live? Drink a coffee or something perhaps?

[VikingN1nja]

yea but it's 3050?
Oh & PPC's that hit u in back and destroy your front and vice versa, overheat abuse and convergence oof 6 ppc to one exact point are the problem I here as well as teh inivisble magic ppc that sem to just stripyour armor with no hit alert.

AGAIN RETICLE SHAKE IS TOTAL PANTS!

LRM is back so SRM need a buff also to help brawlers breakdown PPC & LRM boats.

Edited by omegaorgun, 08 June 2013 - 09:30 AM.

[Otto Cannon]

[Livewyr]

Yeah, you're a little late- PPCs used to do their rightful heat.. but people complained (shortsightedly) that PPCs were too hot and not worth carrying.

So PGI Caved, and reduced the PPCs heat considerably.. and now they're the only ranged thing truly worth carrying.

[Zerberus]

Catherine Kamensky, on 08 June 2013 - 09:25 AM, said:

Another thing is this. With the Victor being introduced next, chronologically, PGI has messed up.

Double Heat Sinks aren't introduced until 2567, yet the Victor is introduced in 2508.

Sources:

http://www.sarna.net...ouble_heat_sink

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Victor

Considering that it`s 3050 and they can`t just pull content out of a hat or snip their fingers and have it materialize, I don`t understand the argument at all... Please elaborate

Livewyr, on 08 June 2013 - 09:28 AM, said:

Yeah, you're a little late- PPCs used to do their rightful heat.. but people complained (shortsightedly) that PPCs were too hot and not worth carrying.

So PGI Caved, and reduced the PPCs heat considerably.. and now they're the only ranged thing truly worth carrying.

Si. I opposed the heat change back then, and still feel it should be reverted to it`S original value. That would have made the refiore rate nerf superfluous and kept the ppc as what it is: a weapon to be feared in teh right hands, and a Noob`s worst nightmare. As it stands strapping 6 sniper rifles to teh same scope is a Noob's wet dream

Edited by Zerberus, 08 June 2013 - 09:32 AM.

[3rdworld]

Livewyr, on 08 June 2013 - 09:28 AM, said:

Yeah, you're a little late- PPCs used to do their rightful heat.. but people complained (shortsightedly) that PPCs were too hot and not worth carrying.

So PGI Caved, and reduced the PPCs heat considerably.. and now they're the only ranged thing truly worth carrying.

That was also when PPCs did splash damage, had a much slower flight speed, and HSR had not yet been done with ballistics.

Heat is far from the only buff PPCs have received, or the most significant.

[Nigitsu]

If it's 3050, the clan invasion is happening right now. It starts in 3049, ends in 3052 at Tukayyid.

Where is mah Mad Cat?!

Source:

http://www.sarna.net...i/Clan_Invasion

[3rdworld]

Catherine Kamensky, on 08 June 2013 - 09:32 AM, said:

If it's 3050, the clan invasion is happening right now. It starts in 3049, ends in 3052 at Tukayyid.

Where is mah Mad Cat?!

Source:

http://www.sarna.net...i/Clan_Invasion

How new are you?

[Zerberus]

It also stops for a year in October. What you you going to do with all the clanners then, tell them they can`t play for a year?

Is there a bridge over this thread?

Edited by Zerberus, 08 June 2013 - 09:34 AM.

[Livewyr]

3rdworld, on 08 June 2013 - 09:31 AM, said:

That was also when PPCs did splash damage, had a much slower flight speed, and HSR had not yet been done with ballistics.

Heat is far from the only buff PPCs have received, or the most significant.

Those are also true. (Although, I'd still say the heat is the most significant buff.. A cataphract 3D with 3PPCs and DHS can Alpha strike and only generate 25% heat..which with DHS, dissipates pretty quickly..making it a veritable unlimited ammo autocannon 10 with extra range.)

[Nigitsu]

With my references to when things are released, I am merely implying that PGI needs to stop getting ahead of themselves to bring stuff out because people are too lazy to actually adapt and learn to deal without crutches.

I hate double heat sinks, but now I have to take them on every mech I own in order to contend with everyone else, and PPC's are being horribly abused.

3rdworld, on 08 June 2013 - 09:33 AM, said:

How new are you?

Not new at all, been playing since Closed Beta, and have been around for the entire ride from great game to PPCWarrior Online: Whack-a-mole Edition.

[Zerberus]

Catherine Kamensky, on 08 June 2013 - 09:35 AM, said:

With my references to when things are released, I am merely implying that PGI needs to stop getting ahead of themselves to bring stuff out because people are too lazy to actually adapt and learn to deal without crutches.

I hate double heat sinks, but now I have to take them on every mech I own in order to contend with everyone else, and PPC's are being horribly abused.

THIS i can agree with, though I don`t fin PPCs to be nearly as bad as they were 2 weeks ago.... It`S primarily the Mechof Duty crowd that`S still trying to poptart 15 minutes /match, and they too will eventually learn.

[Nigitsu]

Zerberus, on 08 June 2013 - 09:37 AM, said:

THIS i can agree with, though I don`t fin PPCs to be nearly as bad as they were 2 weeks ago.... It`S primarily the Mechof Duty crowd that`S still trying to poptart 15 minutes /match, and they too will eventually learn.

Yeah, they boast that it's a thinking person's shooter, but it isn't anymore.

[Joseph Mallan]

Catherine Kamensky, on 08 June 2013 - 09:32 AM, said:

If it's 3050, the clan invasion is happening right now. It starts in 3049, ends in 3052 at Tukayyid.

Where is mah Mad Cat?!

Source:

http://www.sarna.net...i/Clan_Invasion

Wave 2 is in the outer ring of the Inner sphere at this time.

[Wraith511802003]

Catherine Kamensky, on 08 June 2013 - 09:18 AM, said:

While talking to some of my EVE corporation members and mentioning how annoying it was to run into a 6 PPC Stalker, one of them mentioned something: Heat damage.

Why should we be worrying so much about nerfing PPC damage and all this other stuff, when heat really has no consequence other than just shutting you down?

In Battletech, if you did something stupid like a 6 PPC boat, and alpha striked all your heatsinks would be destroyed, and possibly your engine too. It would definitely be destroyed on the 2nd alpha strike.

An ER PPC generates 11 heat. In Battletech rules, the ER PPC generates 15 heat. Oops!
A PPC generates 8 heat. In Battletech rules, the PPC generates 10 heat. Oops!

Obviously the game's Heatsinks are scaled to deal with what PGI says is heat generation, but if the game is to follow Battletech rules/time line, then something is wrong here.

With pointing out what PGI got wrong, and why there are so many PPC boast, why not incorporate damage from going from lukewarm to thermonuclear? Seems like we'd see a lot less PPC boats if heat damage was incorporated.

Seems like an easy and simple fix to me.

Sources:

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/ER_PPC

http://www.sarna.net...rojector_Cannon

[color=#959595]SO you basically want everyone to conform to your play skill and style. Nice[/color]

[color=#959595]Meanwhile, those of us who like to run around on the edge of exploding, get so smile very rarly when an annoying little lite mech shows it tail to us... the[/color]
[color=#959595]n we swat it. as it should be, no lite mech should be able to survive an encounter with a assault mech, speed alone makes it hard.. now we have to shoot 2 times[/color]