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Streaks Are Still Doing More Damage Than Intended - Sometimes (Testing Data)


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#1 MuonNeutrino

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Posted 07 June 2013 - 07:43 PM

When I started leveling up blackjacks, I noticed pretty quickly that I seemed to take a lot more damage than I ought to from streak-wielding foes. While a blackjack is more lightly armored than many mechs, going from untouched to bright red CT internals from two streakcat volleys seems excessive, and streak-using lights also seemed to do disproportionate damage.

At first, I just wrote it off as being out of practice in piloting these more lightly armored mechs. However, I read an account of at least one more person who noticed this, and it motivated me to do some testing. The results of this testing are presented here; the upshot is, streaks are still doing more than their intended 1.5 damage per missile - but only some of the time, against some mechs.

[EDIT: note that this testing is about the overall damage dealt by SSRMs, not their flight path/location targeting/etc, and the result that they're doing more than 1.5 damage per missile seems inconsistent with splash damage supposedly being effectively removed by setting splash damage radii to 5cm]

Methodology is as follows: I grabbed a buddy in a jenner with streaks, and we coordinated our drops over voice in attempts to get into the same game. In the cases where we managed it and ended up on opposing teams, we met in an isolated corner of the map to test, while trying to bias the outcome of the match as little as possible. I dropped in a variety of mechs, and we tracked the damage that was being dealt by his streaks using the health % indicator.

The damage tracking was verified by testing with a known amount of damage from medium lasers - my blackjack has a total of 463 points of internals+armor, so 20 damage should take off ~4.3%, and in-game it indeed deducted 4% from my total when he shot me. This tracking method, therefore, seems to be accurate in the live environment.

In each case we shot 10 volleys of streak fire (20 missiles) and recorded the damage. The results are as follows:

Mech        Total   Health   Damage  Damage/
           Health  Removed    Dealt  Missile
Blackjack    463       7%      ~32     ~1.6    (NOTE: SRM2)
Blackjack    463      11%      ~50     ~2.5
Centurion    513       6%      ~30     ~1.5
Raven        357       7%      ~25     ~1.25
Jenner       363       8%      ~29     ~1.5
Cataphract   603       7%      ~42     ~2.1

Basically, streak SRM damage does not seem to be a consistent 1.5 per missile, and specifically it seems to vary on a mech-by-mech basis. Notably, my initial impression that my blackjacks were taking significantly higher damage from streaks seems to have been correct - in fact, they're taking as much damage as if the missiles had never been nerfed in the first place. Note that this does *NOT* seem to affect regular SRMs, as evidenced by the fact that 20 missiles from a regular SRM2 did only ~30 damage against my blackjack, where the streaks did ~50.

Apart from that, ravens seem to take slightly less damage than they should, although this is subject to variation due to rounding errors (8% instead of 7% would have put them right back at 1.5 per missile). Centurions and jenners seem to take normal damage. And, oddly enough, *cataphracts* of all things seem to also take bonus damage from streaks, although not as much as blackjacks.

I was not able to test all of my mechs due to lack of time (it's a pain trying to get these sync'd drops in); if anyone wants to perform similar testing, please, feel free. In the meantime I'm going to report this to the devs, hopefully these inconsistencies can be ironed out.

Edited by MuonNeutrino, 07 June 2013 - 08:12 PM.


#2 El Bandito

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Posted 07 June 2013 - 07:50 PM

You do realize that SSRMs have splash, right? It is supposed to do more than 1.5 damage per missile due to splash hitting multiple locations. Results vary on mechs due to different hitboxes, as you pointed out.

Seems to me that BJ hitboxes need to be buffed. And Raven hitboxes need to be nerfed, again.

Edited by El Bandito, 07 June 2013 - 08:14 PM.


#3 Sephlock

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Posted 07 June 2013 - 07:56 PM

Oh sweet baby Jesus. I'm having flashbacks to the beginning of the LRM rollercoaster nightmare.

#4 Chou Senwan

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Posted 07 June 2013 - 08:05 PM

Why do any weapons in this game do splash damage? Isn't it eating up server resources and doing buggy things due to odd interactions with mech geometry and hit-boxes? What would it ruin if missiles just dealt damage to the spot they hit?

#5 MuonNeutrino

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Posted 07 June 2013 - 08:06 PM

View PostEl Bandito, on 07 June 2013 - 07:50 PM, said:

You do realize that SSRMs have splash, right? It is supposed to do more than 1.5 damage per missile due to splash. Results vary on mechs due to hitoxes as you pointed out.

Seems to me that BJ hitboxes need to be buffed. And Raven hitboxes need to be nerfed, again.


Except that right now all splash damage is supposed to have effectively been turned off by setting all splash damage radii to something absurdly small like 5 cm. That doesn't seem to be working. And regardless, SSRMs doing more damage to some mechs than others is definitely not a good thing for gameplay - it *shouldn't* work this way, on pure balance grounds if nothing else.

Edited by MuonNeutrino, 07 June 2013 - 08:07 PM.


#6 General Taskeen

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Posted 07 June 2013 - 08:07 PM

FYi they covered it up with ECM/BAP/PPC and AMS, instead of you know, actually doing something about their flight path.

#7 PEEFsmash

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Posted 07 June 2013 - 08:14 PM

Thanks for providing more hard evidence that streaks are doing more damage than they should. The fact that so much of this damage goes to CT is the bigger problem, however.

#8 El Bandito

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Posted 07 June 2013 - 08:15 PM

View PostMuonNeutrino, on 07 June 2013 - 08:06 PM, said:

Except that right now all splash damage is supposed to have effectively been turned off by setting all splash damage radii to something absurdly small like 5 cm. That doesn't seem to be working. And regardless, SSRMs doing more damage to some mechs than others is definitely not a good thing for gameplay - it *shouldn't* work this way, on pure balance grounds if nothing else.



1. Missile spalash is still noticeable even after the reduction. Don't know why you expected them to be effectively turned off.

2. The problem is not just Streaks, it is the mech design. ALL weapons affect it. Even PPCs can hit multiple locations based on the mech design. Don't make SSRMs the scapegoat.

3. Stop piloting Blackjack. It is a crap mech with crap hitboxes. Abuse Raven instead.

Edited by El Bandito, 07 June 2013 - 08:24 PM.


#9 Kaspirikay

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Posted 07 June 2013 - 08:17 PM

guys, its time to stock up on LRM Artemis mechs because we all know where this is going

#10 MWHawke

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Posted 07 June 2013 - 08:23 PM

I notice that streaks do damage to the CT and splash to the R/L torso no matter how I turn my mech. Maybe that is the issue. I f I turn my mech to the left, the streaks should be hitting either my arms or my right torso right?

#11 El Bandito

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Posted 07 June 2013 - 08:25 PM

View PostMWHawke, on 07 June 2013 - 08:23 PM, said:

I notice that streaks do damage to the CT and splash to the R/L torso no matter how I turn my mech. Maybe that is the issue. I f I turn my mech to the left, the streaks should be hitting either my arms or my right torso right?


It hits the arm only, if the arm is big enough (such as Trebuchet, Awesome etc...) or your CT is not jutting forward too much like Dragon or Catapult. In fact, many experienced players I faced used their arms to block my SSRMs and survived even when their CT had red internals.

Edited by El Bandito, 07 June 2013 - 08:28 PM.


#12 Sephlock

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Posted 07 June 2013 - 08:26 PM

View PostEl Bandito, on 07 June 2013 - 08:15 PM, said:

2. The problem is not just Streaks, it is the mech design. ALL weapons affect it. Even PPCs can hit multiple locations based on the mech design. Don't make SSRMs the scapegoat.
But missiles are the devil's tools, therefore they must be nerfed!

#13 shabowie

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Posted 07 June 2013 - 10:05 PM

So even with a 5 centimeter splash radius it's still buggy as ****. Why do they insist on having splash? Just make it a point damage like everything else guys, give it up.

#14 Gaan Cathal

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Posted 07 June 2013 - 10:48 PM

View Postshabowie, on 07 June 2013 - 10:05 PM, said:

So even with a 5 centimeter splash radius it's still buggy as ****. Why do they insist on having splash? Just make it a point damage like everything else guys, give it up.


Because they tried that and every missile in the game unerringly homed in on the CT. This is the 'least bad option' while they work out how their code behaves.


Edit: I'm also loving how in the AC40/3-4PPC meta days El Bandito is still ******** about the Raven. Makes me proud of my little Tetamech.

Edited by Gaan Cathal, 07 June 2013 - 10:51 PM.


#15 El Bandito

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Posted 08 June 2013 - 12:55 AM

View PostGaan Cathal, on 07 June 2013 - 10:48 PM, said:

Because they tried that and every missile in the game unerringly homed in on the CT. This is the 'least bad option' while they work out how their code behaves. Edit: I'm also loving how in the AC40/3-4PPC meta days El Bandito is still ******** about the Raven. Makes me proud of my little Tetamech.


I am not bitching, just stating the fact.
Cause Raven hitboxes are still whack.


Hey, good reply naturally rhymes together.

Edited by El Bandito, 08 June 2013 - 12:56 AM.


#16 One Medic Army

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Posted 08 June 2013 - 12:56 AM

View PostEl Bandito, on 08 June 2013 - 12:55 AM, said:

Cause Raven hitboxes are still whack. That's a fact.

They're much better these days, though aiming back and/or legs is still better with lasers due to how much the ST and CT hitboxes overlap.

Remember, on any mech: "When in doubt, shoot it in the crotch"

#17 Gaan Cathal

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Posted 08 June 2013 - 01:00 AM

View PostEl Bandito, on 08 June 2013 - 12:55 AM, said:


I am not bitching, just stating the fact.
Cause Raven hitboxes are still whack.


Hey, good reply naturally rhymes together.


If they're going to tweak hitboxes again, might be better doing a pass on those mechs with ridiculously punishing ones? Getting front-CT cored from the rear in certain mechs is an actual problem, compared with Ravens having a slightly favorable profile against certain missile weapons (which to my mind makes up for those huge "shoot me here" legs, frankly).

#18 Sephlock

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Posted 08 June 2013 - 01:11 AM

In any event, IIRC they said something to the effect that missiles target the "bones" of the mechs, and that they are apparently pretty close together, resulting in the behavior that we've been experiencing all this time. Even if they remove the splash damage entirely, there is probably still going to be a bias towards center mass, and given that damage spillover can happen even with non-mssile weapons (which have been stated to not have splash at all)....

Yeah...

Unfortunately, if the above is the case, no amount of tweaking of damage or blast radius values is going to really solve the problem. They have to tweak things for the short term, but the real fix may still be a while in coming (though I don't doubt that they're working on it).

In the worst case, it may involve seriously messing with existing mech models, including ones that are already done but not yet released.

Edited by Sephlock, 08 June 2013 - 01:12 AM.


#19 Fate 6

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Posted 08 June 2013 - 01:27 AM

View PostEl Bandito, on 07 June 2013 - 08:15 PM, said:



1. Missile spalash is still noticeable even after the reduction. Don't know why you expected them to be effectively turned off.

2. The problem is not just Streaks, it is the mech design. ALL weapons affect it. Even PPCs can hit multiple locations based on the mech design. Don't make SSRMs the scapegoat.

3. Stop piloting Blackjack. It is a crap mech with crap hitboxes. Abuse Raven instead.

1. agreed

2. agreed

3. LIES I do better in my BJ than the average pilot does in their heavy mech. All about positioning and playing the role.

Edited by Fate 6, 08 June 2013 - 01:43 AM.


#20 El Bandito

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Posted 08 June 2013 - 01:40 AM

View PostFate 6, on 08 June 2013 - 01:27 AM, said:

1. agreed 2. agreed 4. LIES I do better in my BJ than the average pilot does in their heavy mech. All about positioning and playing the role.


You are a special case. There are some (albeit few) really good Spider, BJ, Dragon and Awesome pilots out there. In general, those chassis all suck within their weight class when compared with other alternatives.

Edited by El Bandito, 08 June 2013 - 01:44 AM.






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