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Gameplay Balance As A Whole: Thoughts?


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#1 Pezzer

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Posted 09 June 2013 - 07:52 AM

Hello all,

Just wanted to see what everyone thought of the game's current overall balance. This includes weapon types, weapons, heat, tonnage, mechs, hardpoints, and modules.

Let me know what you guys think. I await the replies.


But first, lemme open this up with my own personal thoughts on gameplay balance. I have been playing since early closed beta, back when there were only 2 bugged-out maps and LRMs were godly OP. After recently playing about 10 games in a number of mech types (all of the basic types and a number of Heavy/Med types, due to their discrepancies), I would say that the game is less balanced than it was 4 months ago (the last time I played. I thought the game was perfect at the time but didnt have time to play. If only I would've known..[was a lot easier to earn creds]).

SRMs: Da fuq. These are supposed to be short-range armor strippers. Now they are literally less useful than a machine gun. Machine guns do less overall dmg, but at least they can KO armorless mechs quickly.

LRMs: I think they are good atm. They do a lot of damage, but have to retain a lock to be useful. They cant shoot over cover any more, THANK GOD! Now if you're a defensive player you won't get eaten up by them as much.

Ballistics: This is arguable, which is why I want to see what everyone else thinks when it comes to wep balance especially. I think some ballistics do too much damage (the larger calibers) and don't provide knockback anymore. I think they are way too easy to use, and the projectiles move too quickly. Ballistics are supposed to be weapons for the experienced player, the Hunchback who's AC/20 takes 3 seconds to get to the enemy but if you LEAD IT will knock that enemy down and do quite a bit of damage. Nowadays AC/20s strip armor in 2-4 shots (exaggeration, but is pretty close for most mechs) and AC/10s snipe like the dickens.
IMO all ballistics need thier projectile speeds lowered, thier knockdown added back into the game, and for the larger calibers the damage lowered on fresh mech armor. I think lower calibers should do a little more damage on lightly-armored areas as a bonus to smarter players/Light ballistic mechs who like to finish a mech off for the team and jet off to the cap.

Lasers: The Large lasers are finally useful now...but due to map size finally being large enough, outclass Meds and Smalls by a stupendous amount. Imo, meds need to have a little more range or do more damage or something! Whenever I'm using Med lasers on my own builds, I feel like im pulling out a last-ditch weapon because my Ballistics ran out or I'm overheating. They don't have the same Umph they had 4 months ago, which I thought at the time was the perfect amount of Umph! Smalls have faster cycling speeds but seem to do less damage for the heat now, which is depressing. The 6-Small Jenner build is extinct, and I dont know why. They shouldn't be, but current balance causes it to be so.

PPCs. They need rebalancing in some way. They feel a little off. PPCs are supposed to Stun when fired enough at a single enemy and do a decent amount of damage, but at the expense of overheating. Now they fire quickly and do a large level of damage (in comparison to other lasers) with little heat and no stun effect. Why? I don't understand why lasers are being replaced by PPCs, they are all supposed to be balanced with their own strengths and weaknesses.

Heat: Lasers are supposed to give off a lot of heat, they're lasers, but right now it seems like Meds in particular are a little too hot, compounding the problem I've been having with my own personal laser builds. I feel like some ballistic weapons arent giving off enough heat for thier damage while others are giving off a hair too much. Idk, maybe hearing from others will change my mind on this.

Mechs: The Dragon is made of glass, the newer turret-arm Mechs seems to have a huge advantage (Blackjacks/Jagers). They get mostly ballistics which atm are a little OP imo AND they are very small targets when firing over hills. The Trebuchet is still a block of metal to shoot at (meaning the shape due to arm length/missile pods makes them too easy to hit) and isn't very powerful for its' size. The Atlas has lost its' fearsomeness on the field, its armor seems to get stripped too quickly and it's about twice as hard to stop as it used to be. I feel like a blumbering ***** wearing Knight's armor running into walls and mountains whenever I'm in one, which is not what the Atlas is supposed to be like. Pretty much any "conventional" mech with standard arms/upright build seems to be at a disadvantage at the moment. Stalkers used to be underpowered POS's and now they are a better choice of mech than an Atlas, and the same for Jagermechs when compared to Dragons. When did this happen? That makes more than half the mechs in this game at a disadvantage. At least that's what I'm seeing as a whole.
Also, what happened to Mech crashes? They were funny, but haven't been in the game for some time now :(

Let me know what you guys think, as I said at the begginning of this post.

TL:DR, what's OP, what needs a buff, SRMs suck and Ballistics are too good imo.

Edited by Pezzer, 09 June 2013 - 07:58 AM.


#2 FupDup

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Posted 09 June 2013 - 08:12 AM

Quote

Gameplay Balance As A Whole: Thoughts

FUBAR.

Edited by FupDup, 09 June 2013 - 08:13 AM.


#3 scJazz

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Posted 09 June 2013 - 08:15 AM

View PostFupDup, on 09 June 2013 - 08:12 AM, said:

FUBAR.

I was going to write something long and complicated but FupDup beat me to it.

#4 Deathstriker

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Posted 09 June 2013 - 12:39 PM

I agree with OP's assessment of the game.

I took a break for 4 weeks where the game seemed more playable than it is now. Sure, there were balancing issues but I feel there was more variety in mechs, as well as loadouts, then the game's current state. Now all I see are Stalkers/Jagers/Fracts/Highlanders with PPC/Gause alpha builds, with a few mediums, lights, etc filling in the gaps.

Where before I would average a decent 300-400 dmg in matches using medium/large lasers, srms, ssrms, now I feel like I'm throwing rocks on some occasions. I'm not really a "flavor of the month" gamer that uses whatever happens to be currently exceptional on the battlefield because I enjoy the challenge of getting up close against someone on a somewhat equal footing.

Oh well, may have to wait a little longer for MWO to iron out more wrinkles.

Edited by Deathstriker, 09 June 2013 - 12:40 PM.


#5 soarra

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Posted 09 June 2013 - 12:40 PM

View PostDeathstriker, on 09 June 2013 - 12:39 PM, said:

I agree with OP's assessment of the game.

I took a break for 4 weeks where the game seemed more playable than it is now. Sure, there were balancing issues but I feel there was more variety in mechs, as well as loadouts, then the game's current state. Now all I see are Stalkers/Jagers/Fracts/Highlanders with PPC/Gause alpha builds, with a few mediums, lights, etc filling in the gaps.

Where before I would average a decent 300-400 dmg in matches using medium/large lasers, srms, ssrms, now I feel like I'm throwing rocks on some occasions. I'm not really a "flavor of the month" gamer that uses whatever happens to be currently exceptional on the battlefield because I enjoy the challenge of getting up close against someone on a somewhat equal footing.

Oh well, may have to wait a little longer for MWO to iron out more wrinkles.

once they fix boating things will even out.

#6 PEEFsmash

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Posted 09 June 2013 - 12:51 PM

View Postsoarra, on 09 June 2013 - 12:40 PM, said:

once they fix boating things will even out.


This game is a game of boating through and through, and there is nothing wrong with it.

Min-maxing is absolutely fine, as long as the "min" in a real disadvantage that can be exploited. The reason that min-max snipers are overpowered is not because they are boating a weapon, but because they are basically just as good as brawlers at brawling!Once they fix SRM damage to be higher, things will even out. Once brawlers get buffed to where they belong (mainly, SRM damage to 2.0+) then they will dominate snipers once they get to brawling range. Light and medium speed should also be increased. (Lights to 180ish, mediums to 105ish.) This will make frontal brawl pushes extremely effective, and will extinct sniper-only teams right away. Snipers will still have their uses, as they should, but they will be support mechs, not the meat-and-potatoes of the army.

The best part? We don't nerf anything (except Streaks).

Edited by PEEFsmash, 09 June 2013 - 12:56 PM.


#7 Keifomofutu

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Posted 09 June 2013 - 01:06 PM

Instadamage high alpha builds are still far too dominant over dps and brawler builds. The meta simply switched from poptarts to ridgehumpers like stalker and jager.

SRMs need a serious buff as do pulse lasers. I'd almost argue for a reduction in laser firing time overall. That one second you have to spend on target with a laser is basically painting you for every ppc/ballistic boat in range.

Edited by Keifomofutu, 09 June 2013 - 01:07 PM.


#8 Evax

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Posted 09 June 2013 - 01:11 PM

Add more heat to PPCs and add .25 damage to the srms.

#9 PEEFsmash

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Posted 09 June 2013 - 01:13 PM

View PostKeifomofutu, on 09 June 2013 - 01:06 PM, said:

SRMs need a serious buff as do pulse lasers. I'd almost argue for a reduction in laser firing time overall. That one second you have to spend on target with a laser is basically painting you for every ppc/ballistic boat in range.


Absolutely correct.

#10 scJazz

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Posted 09 June 2013 - 01:20 PM

View PostPEEFsmash, on 09 June 2013 - 12:51 PM, said:

Once brawlers get buffed to where they belong (mainly, SRM damage to 2.0+) then they will dominate snipers once they get to brawling range.


Wrong... you wrote the key problem... once they get in range. Right now PPCs and GRs dominate because they can still be used at brawl ranges and have no drawbacks. None. Buff SRMs to 50 damage if you like. It won't change the fact that you have to clear 1.5km of terrain to get in range sucking up 30 to 50+ pt alphas every 4 seconds.

#11 keith

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Posted 09 June 2013 - 01:38 PM

View PostscJazz, on 09 June 2013 - 01:20 PM, said:


Wrong... you wrote the key problem... once they get in range. Right now PPCs and GRs dominate because they can still be used at brawl ranges and have no drawbacks. None. Buff SRMs to 50 damage if you like. It won't change the fact that you have to clear 1.5km of terrain to get in range sucking up 30 to 50+ pt alphas every 4 seconds.


only if your dumb enough to run in the open, and on 2 of the 5 unique maps. most of the maps its VERY easy to close to that 300m range on a decent group of mechs, gain the advantage of +1 and u are most likely to win the game. this is were the team part of the game comes into play and u use da scouts, feeling u never played the big boy 8 mans

edit: and your math wrong on dam only odes 1/3 that dam at max range

Edited by keith, 09 June 2013 - 01:39 PM.


#12 scJazz

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Posted 09 June 2013 - 01:46 PM

View Postkeith, on 09 June 2013 - 01:38 PM, said:


only if your dumb enough to run in the open, and on 2 of the 5 unique maps. most of the maps its VERY easy to close to that 300m range on a decent group of mechs, gain the advantage of +1 and u are most likely to win the game. this is were the team part of the game comes into play and u use da scouts, feeling u never played the big boy 8 mans

edit: and your math wrong on dam only odes 1/3 that dam at max range

So sorry I damaged your epeen to the point you had to go for Ad Hominem. Also so sorry I couldn't be bothered to calculate exact Alpha @ long range of various builds and then average them out. You are correct... you are the interwebz mastah! Willing to sling personal insults while being totally effing tedious about maths. :(

It doesn't change the fact that PPCSniper build > everything else because it can do everything at least adequately. 2pt SRMs won't change that... neither will 50.

#13 Odins Fist

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Posted 09 June 2013 - 01:52 PM

View PostscJazz, on 09 June 2013 - 01:46 PM, said:

So sorry I damaged your epeen to the point you had to go for Ad Hominem. Also so sorry I couldn't be bothered to calculate exact Alpha @ long range of various builds and then average them out. You are correct... you are the interwebz mastah! Willing to sling personal insults while being totally effing tedious about maths. :(

It doesn't change the fact that PPCSniper build > everything else because it can do everything at least adequately. 2pt SRMs won't change that... neither will 50.


Oh Snap..!!
.


#14 Tor6

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Posted 09 June 2013 - 02:17 PM

Poor balance overall that shows that the devs don't have a solid idea what role they want the various weapons to play.

#15 Levi Porphyrogenitus

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Posted 09 June 2013 - 02:23 PM

All in all this current patch cycle is one of the healthiest for balanced game play to date.

That is not to say that all is puppies, rainbows, and sunshine. SRM damage is too low, SSRMs and LRMs still need a guidance fix, and some of the ACs still need work, among other things.

Still, overall MWO is in a decent place right now.

#16 Felbombling

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Posted 09 June 2013 - 02:30 PM

View Postkeith, on 09 June 2013 - 01:38 PM, said:

only if your dumb enough...


Epic

#17 Gremlich Johns

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Posted 09 June 2013 - 02:44 PM

I don't like how damage to lights seem to not register very often. I was shooting at a Spider and I KNOW my lasers were hitting him. Watching the damage percentage not indicate ANY apparent change was disconcerting. I swear, the % stayed on 52% for for several hits from 2 mediums - he was glowing, too, from the hits.

#18 Soy

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Posted 09 June 2013 - 02:45 PM

View PostOdins Fist, on 09 June 2013 - 01:52 PM, said:


Oh Snap..!!
.



Great Odin's Raven's Fist!



#19 FunkyFritter

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Posted 09 June 2013 - 03:01 PM

The good stuff all stacks up pretty well against each other, but there are a lot of mech and weapon options that are simply subpar.

#20 Odins Fist

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Posted 09 June 2013 - 03:21 PM

View PostGremlich Johns, on 09 June 2013 - 02:44 PM, said:

I don't like how damage to lights seem to not register very often. I was shooting at a Spider and I KNOW my lasers were hitting him. Watching the damage percentage not indicate ANY apparent change was disconcerting. I swear, the % stayed on 52% for for several hits from 2 mediums - he was glowing, too, from the hits.


Yeah my friend/teammate fired on an already damaged Spider from 120 meters away, that stationary and shooting me with MGs and a Medium Laser from behind, I had just turned enough to see him and get a targeting lock, he showed up on screen (his mech stats/armor) and KABOOM..!!! My friend in his Misery hit him with 2-ERPPCs and an AC-20 to the rear, a square hit to the rear right before the Spider shrugged off the hit and ran away.. Yes his armor lit up on the display, Yes it was a solid hit, and No he didn't take any aditional damage. I got a hit indicator from firing on him a little bit after that as well when he went up a slope on Frozen City, unsure if he took damage or not, he was over the little hill quickly.

My friend cursed, I facepalmed, we both laughed sarcastically... The Spider was the last guy left standing on the enemy team a couple minutes later until someone finally shot him with what appeared to be 2-PPCs and a Gauss. (Highlander)

Sometimes the hits just do not register.. Oh well...

Edited by Odins Fist, 09 June 2013 - 03:24 PM.






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