17 replies to this topic

[Tennex]

Add splash damage to LBX. This will increase LBX's effective damage like it did for SRMs.

However, it will still do 10 damage on paper like the AC10. and still follow the TT rules. (since the devs dont want to break them, by decoupling LBX/AC damage)

[armyof1]

I think it's time to give up the whole splash damage concept, it's led to all kinds of balance issues with missiles and adding the same problems to a ballistic doesn't seem promising at all. LBX should get a 30-40% damage buff though to make them more useful than their quite sorry state at the moment.

[Tennex]

Splash was never an issue on any weapons.

The LRM problem was caused by LRM flght path to the CT. Not the splash, the splash was there to hide the fact that LRM only went to CT, by spreading damge to rest of the mech.

[HarmAssassin]

Splash has NO place in this game and has caused nothing but problems so far.

As for LB10x needing a buff... no.

The LB10x was designed to be a lighter, smaller alternative to the AC10 with longer range. In exchange for being lighter, smaller, and having a longer range - it spread damage like a shotgun.

It is working as intended, leave it alone.

[InRev]

Tennex, on 10 June 2013 - 04:58 PM, said:

Splash was never an issue on any weapons.

The LRM problem was caused by LRM flght path to the CT. Not the splash, the splash was there to hide the fact that LRM only went to CT, by spreading damge to rest of the mech.

Splash was the reason vanilla SRMs were nuking the poop out of Commandos while doing proportionately less damage to Atlantes. Mechs with small frames, and thus close hitboxes (small guys like the Commando, or Cicada), have serious trouble with splash since it bleeds over to more components and thus is more likely to overlap with the CT. Until PGI figures out how to stop splash from stacking on smaller mechs, it's not really recommended as a balancing tool.

[Tennex]

InRev, on 10 June 2013 - 05:27 PM, said:

Splash was the reason vanilla SRMs were nuking the poop out of Commandos while doing proportionately less damage to Atlantes. Mechs with small frames, and thus close hitboxes (small guys like the Commando, or Cicada), have serious trouble with splash since it bleeds over to more components and thus is more likely to overlap with the CT. Until PGI figures out how to stop splash from stacking on smaller mechs, it's not really recommended as a balancing tool.

Thats true, but it can easily be solved by reducing splash radius depending on mech size - which just makes sense to do.

HarmAssassin, on 10 June 2013 - 05:14 PM, said:

Splash has NO place in this game and has caused nothing but problems so far.

As for LB10x needing a buff... no.

The LB10x was designed to be a lighter, smaller alternative to the AC10 with longer range. In exchange for being lighter, smaller, and having a longer range - it spread damage like a shotgun.

It is working as intended, leave it alone.

in lore, LB10X was designed to completely replace the AC10 (i hope this doesnt happen in game). It is supposed to have a slug mode which would completely invalidate the buckshot that we have now, once its implemented.

[InRev]

Tennex, on 10 June 2013 - 05:48 PM, said:

Thats true, but it can easily be solved by reducing splash radius depending on mech size - which just makes sense to do.

That's actually a fantastic approach to the splash dilemma. I don't understand how or why I have never seen it posited before.

Question is, can the CryEngine do it?

[Tennex]

InRev, on 10 June 2013 - 05:51 PM, said:

That's actually a fantastic approach to the splash dilemma. I don't understand how or why I have never seen it posited before.

Question is, can the CryEngine do it?

i hope so.. or at least that they can find a way to do it.

because we will see splash again... at least with swarm LRMs.

Edited by Tennex, 10 June 2013 - 05:58 PM.

[scJazz]

InRev, on 10 June 2013 - 05:51 PM, said:

That's actually a fantastic approach to the splash dilemma. I don't understand how or why I have never seen it posited before.

Question is, can the CryEngine do it?

Doubtful since Splash is a property of weapons and a Mech is...... holy carp! Does Crysis have body armor type stuff? More importantly is that body armor type stuff got features like improved AP or improved HE or improved anything of some damage type? I don't know because I don't play FPS. If it does than yeah there is almost certainly a way to do this with existing tools in CryEngine.

[scJazz]

If there is Body Armor in CryEngine that absorbs fire damage say... just using Fire, Acid, Water, Electricity because we are all used to that sorta thing. Then... all mechs get water armor. Scaling from 20 tons at max armor to 100 tons at zero or some other convenient thingy. SRM splash does water damage and taduhhhh that problem is fixed for the Commandos. LRMs do Acid damage whutever and Assault mechs get Acid armor scaling from 100 tons back to 20 tons. LBXs do Electricity and we come up with some useful numbers for that and voila!

Problem solved have a nice day... i ken haz kewkee naow?

EDIT: This works because not even reading the CryEngine SDK you'd have to be an i.d.i.o.t (can't believe that is censored) not to assume that the engine does have armor and that armor does have more effective against this than that properties!

Edited by scJazz, 10 June 2013 - 06:17 PM.

[Asmosis]

LBX doesnt need splash as it already covers a small area.

What it does need is either a damage boost or range advantage over regular ac cannons. in TT it was fine as all weapons hit random sections more or less. In MWO you can concentrate fire, so spread fire weapons like lrms,srms, LBX need to do more damage per ton of weapon compared to pinpoint weapons like PPCs or standard ballistics.

[BR0WN_H0RN3T]

I'm against anything that adds splash damage unless base weapon damage is reduced to compensate, just like they did with SRMs..prob a bit over-nerfed but same thing. What I DO want to see is a much high crit chance of the LB10X. It should absolutely wreck unarmoured parts and be better at it then MGs. That's all that needs doing really imo.

[Deathlike]

LBX10 should be more effective than the AC10 for what it does (which is spreading damage), but it does that poorly (still a high spread) and really holds no real benefits outside of the crit bonus (which is still worthless IMO).

So... it needs some buff outside of another spread decrease, whether it is damage, ROF, speed of bullet... etc.

[Lyoto Machida]

scJazz, on 10 June 2013 - 06:14 PM, said:

If there is Body Armor in CryEngine that absorbs fire damage say... just using Fire, Acid, Water, Electricity because we are all used to that sorta thing. Then... all mechs get water armor. Scaling from 20 tons at max armor to 100 tons at zero or some other convenient thingy. SRM splash does water damage and taduhhhh that problem is fixed for the Commandos. LRMs do Acid damage whutever and Assault mechs get Acid armor scaling from 100 tons back to 20 tons. LBXs do Electricity and we come up with some useful numbers for that and voila!

Problem solved have a nice day... i ken haz kewkee naow?

EDIT: This works because not even reading the CryEngine SDK you'd have to be an i.d.i.o.t (can't believe that is censored) not to assume that the engine does have armor and that armor does have more effective against this than that properties!

Wow...what a crazy way to explain it but I get what youre saying.

[Bad Andy]

Considering how much it costs it should be a smart cartridge and spread out to a set radius then stop, not just work like a mech shotgun.

[Ralatar]

Bad Andy, on 11 June 2013 - 06:17 AM, said:

Considering how much it costs it should be a smart cartridge and spread out to a set radius then stop, not just work like a mech shotgun.

Wish they would/could do this. In TT the LBX's had a chance for ALL pellets to hit at max range, given the current state that is damned near impossible on a small med/light at beyond 100 meters and it has a longer range than a normal AC10.......

[Karenai]

Bad Andy, on 11 June 2013 - 06:17 AM, said:

Considering how much it costs it should be a smart cartridge and spread out to a set radius then stop, not just work like a mech shotgun.

Yep, that is exactly how LBX would be viable without making it "better" then an AC/10. Spread out to the size of a scout and fly straight from there on. It would look weird, but would do the trick.

[Gen Kumon]

Bad Andy, on 11 June 2013 - 06:17 AM, said:

Considering how much it costs it should be a smart cartridge and spread out to a set radius then stop, not just work like a mech shotgun.

If I recall, that's...actually what the LB is *supposed* to be, as in that's how it's described in the tabletop fluff.

I mean, I can see what they'd have problems implementing that in-game, since they've always had problems with weapon convergence to begin with...but if they can't program that in properly, it certainly needs some sort of buff to make it viable, since right now, in FPS terms, it's a shotgun that only does rifle-level damage.