110 replies to this topic

[Tarrasque]

3rdworld, on 11 June 2013 - 07:13 AM, said:

Because I believe you could accomplish the goal of niches or identities to mechs without hardpoint restrictions. And if that is true than restrictions are not needed.

Ideally we would only have a single variant of each mech and it would be completely customizable. But concessions had to be made as selling more mechs is the chosen source of revenue for the game.

So in your opinion, there is no purpose to using canonical variants at all?

Why are you playing a Mechwarrior game, then? And if you have zero interest in the 'lore' aspect (or whatever), then why should a game within the Battletech universe be altered away from its intended design to fit a non-fan's wants?

Personally I'd rather see this game die on the vine rather than be turned into a mecha shooting gallery a la Mechassault.

[Soy]

MWO is apocryphal.

[Sybreed]

3rdworld, on 11 June 2013 - 05:36 AM, said:

It is easy to look at 2 mechs it may help. But what about the huge majority it will completely bone?

It would also not be hard to get people to use the 8Q for PPCs.

Synergy: The Awesome 8Q does 10% more damage and generates 10% less heat with PPCs.

Synergy: The HBK-4G runs 15kph faster and takes 20% less damage to the right torso when equipped with a AC/20.

Buffs are always better at getting the desired response from a population than nerfs.

I was about to create a thread suggesting something like this. I know you've always been against hardpoint limits, so why have you never posted a good idea like this? This deserves its own thread IMO.

[Jesoo_Creesto]

Sug, on 11 June 2013 - 06:52 AM, said:

Just remove customization.

Well, actually it wouldn't be a bad idea
There is a famous MechWarrior game, which doesn't have the MechLab...and it's much more balanced than this.
(I don't say which is it just because i don't want to be banned )

[Sybreed]

Tarrasque, on 11 June 2013 - 07:15 AM, said:

So in your opinion, there is no purpose to using canonical variants at all?

Why are you playing a Mechwarrior game, then? And if you have zero interest in the 'lore' aspect (or whatever), then why should a game within the Battletech universe be altered away from its intended design to fit a non-fan's wants?

Personally I'd rather see this game die on the vine rather than be turned into a mecha shooting gallery a la Mechassault.

Devs need to put a stock only mode..... I'd play that all the time.

[3rdworld]

Tarrasque, on 11 June 2013 - 07:15 AM, said:

So in your opinion, there is no purpose to using canonical variants at all?

Why are you playing a Mechwarrior game, then? And if you have zero interest in the 'lore' aspect (or whatever), then why should a game within the Battletech universe be altered away from its intended design to fit a non-fan's wants?

Personally I'd rather see this game die on the vine rather than be turned into a mecha shooting gallery a la Mechassault.

There have not been variants in any other mechwarrior game. They did fine.

I have interest in Mechwarrior because it is a shooter with RPG style modifications.

How am I a non fan? I am currently playing this game, and I have played all mechwarriors from 2. I can seperate the difference between battletech and mechwarrior. While mechwarrior is based on battletech they are not the same thing.

[Tarrasque]

OneEyed Jack, on 11 June 2013 - 07:14 AM, said:

Bolded your part to separate it better. it was too many points for me to want to break it up with quotes.

Much appreciated. I can see where you're coming from, and I agree for the most part. My problem is the divide between a variant and how it is customized. Yes, a K2 is a much different mech, but that's because it actually had new hardware refitted onto it, completely. I don't claim to know a ton about BT but as far as I recall, thats a massive undertaking, very expensive, and not all that common, given the relative few number of variants that exist for each mech (to me, even 10 isn't a ton).

OneEyed Jack, on 11 June 2013 - 07:14 AM, said:

My point was exactly what I said. It's not like the K2 is the only variant in canon to widely differ from the fluff description, which is based only on the basic model. But you try to use that fluff as support of your position that mechs should only be usable in the battlefield role the original model was designed for.

Different variants are the flavor of the mechs in this game - why do we have them at all, if we're just going to rip everything out and put whatever we want in? As I said before, why not just make one mech that can mount whatever, and let us customize ad naseum? It speaks of a contradiction in the development of THIS game from the source material.

IMO, just do one or the other. Make this a twitch shooting deathmatch paradise, or make it a tactical team based shooter with a fair amount of restriction (see: SWAT series) to force you to be really good. At least if it's the former I can stop playing and save the time.

OneEyed Jack, on 11 June 2013 - 07:14 AM, said:

Whatever you may be "trying to do," you obviously have no grasp on the power-gamer mentality, or the herd instinct that causes others to follow them.

In that, at least, sir, you do see me true. The mechs I choose to pilot are rarely, if ever 'cheesy', and I play as 'realistically' as I can. Luckily I am good enough that that's enough to compensate for the much more powerful mechs I face, but as I said before, it would simply be much more enjoyable for me to face what acts like a military unit rather than a Quake arena team.


I do appreciate the candor, however, it is clear you know your ****.

[Soy]

Sug, on 11 June 2013 - 06:52 AM, said:

Just remove customization.

This is actually probably the single most efficient way to kill the game that I've ever heard anyone say or post, ever. That is really saying something; congratulations!

[Tarrasque]

3rdworld, on 11 June 2013 - 07:23 AM, said:

There have not been variants in any other mechwarrior game. They did fine.

I have interest in Mechwarrior because it is a shooter with RPG style modifications.

How am I a non fan? I am currently playing this game, and I have played all mechwarriors from 2. I can seperate the difference between battletech and mechwarrior. While mechwarrior is based on battletech they are not the same thing.

I apologize for the assertion that you were a non-fan, what I meant was that the developers obviously included variants for a reason, so what then is the point if they all roughly do the same thing, or worse (and in reality) that a few do everything better than all the others?

Also, taking my opinion with a grain of salt is advisable - though I've played BT, and the MW series since 2, my favorite, favorite mech game by far was Mechcommander.

[3rdworld]

Sybreed, on 11 June 2013 - 07:21 AM, said:

I was about to create a thread suggesting something like this. I know you've always been against hardpoint limits, so why have you never posted a good idea like this? This deserves its own thread IMO.

I have before, it has come up in several threads over the past several months. I believe the Devs stated they don't currently have the tech to do something like this in one of the AtDs.

It never seemed to grab much traction in CB, though at this point it may find some popularity.

It would certainly be easy to add into the rather mundane pilot trees.

[Acid Phase]

mania3c, on 11 June 2013 - 07:09 AM, said:

that's not beauty ..but abomination of current system..what is nice on that anyway??

It's nice because we don't get to stray so far off thinking the CTF-4X mech is viable to rival an Assault taking it out 1v1. Some mechs are designed to support fire. Not to be instant killers as that has been the case here.

But you know what, I can't blame the community for doing so. Customization is being abused by one trick ponies and the rest keep riding that fat c*ck because PGI allows it. Thus we have balance issues that will stretch far beyond final release. Good luck with that.

[SMDMadCow]

3rdworld, on 11 June 2013 - 07:23 AM, said:

I can seperate the difference between battletech and mechwarrior. While mechwarrior is based on battletech they are not the same thing.

Its true to a degree, we had Battletech without a mechwarrior game for years. But without Battletech there would be no Mechwarrior games at all.

[Acid Phase]

Starch1ld, on 11 June 2013 - 07:21 AM, said:

Well, actually it wouldn't be a bad idea
There is a famous MechWarrior game, which doesn't have the MechLab...and it's much more balanced than this.
(I don't say which is it just because i don't want to be banned )

Trust me. Whatever it was, it did it better than here a million times more.

[3rdworld]

Tarrasque, on 11 June 2013 - 07:28 AM, said:

I apologize for the assertion that you were a non-fan, what I meant was that the developers obviously included variants for a reason, so what then is the point if they all roughly do the same thing, or worse (and in reality) that a few do everything better than all the others?

Also, taking my opinion with a grain of salt is advisable - though I've played BT, and the MW series since 2, my favorite, favorite mech game by far was Mechcommander.

To sell more mechs. If all mechs were completely customizable there would be no reason to own more than one chassis. i am not saying I agree with this, but if the game is going to be F2P then some concessions must be made for the devs to make a buck.

You can see this result in the need for 3 mechs to move up the pilot tree.

Mechcommander was good, albeit its balance was pretty shoddy.

[Tarrasque]

Acid Phase, on 11 June 2013 - 07:29 AM, said:

It's nice because we don't get to stray so far off thinking the CTF-4X mech is viable to rival an Assault taking it out 1v1. Some mechs are designed to support fire. Not to be instant killers as that has been the case here.

TLDR; Putting the biggest weapons possible on everything does not mean 'fun' to everyone.

[Sybreed]

3rdworld, on 11 June 2013 - 07:33 AM, said:

To sell more mechs. If all mechs were completely customizable there would be no reason to own more than one chassis. i am not saying I agree with this, but if the game is going to be F2P then some concessions must be made for the devs to make a buck.

You can see this result in the need for 3 mechs to move up the pilot tree.

Mechcommander was good, albeit its balance was pretty shoddy.

they would sell even more mechs if there were limiting customization:

"Oh I want a LRM fire support mech, that C1 looks nice"

"But now, a direct fire support would be nice, time to get the K2"

Instead of: "Hmm I'm just gonna put PPCs or LLs in that C1"

you just sold 2 mechs instead of just one

[mania3c]

Acid Phase, on 11 June 2013 - 07:29 AM, said:

It's nice because we don't get to stray so far off thinking the CTF-4X mech is viable to rival an Assault taking it out 1v1. Some mechs are designed to support fire. Not to be instant killers as that has been the case here.

But you know what, I can't blame the community for doing so. Customization is being abused by one trick ponies and the rest keep riding that fat c*ck because PGI allows it. Thus we have balance issues that will stretch far beyond final release. Good luck with that.

You already did this few times in this thread alone..generalize players who don't agree with this..seriously .. it's pathetic..

I see we have different vision on mechwarrior and customization.. I believe customization is good.. there is already enough limits and freedom..it's good balance .. variants have purpose ..but mechs are not pigeonholed into stock loadout and roles..

if you see this differently..it's okey..but don't say community is stupid..it's not.. it's just prefers different things..

Funny things is..that you think hardpoint size system would fix balance..

[Tarrasque]

3rdworld, on 11 June 2013 - 07:33 AM, said:

To sell more mechs. If all mechs were completely customizable there would be no reason to own more than one chassis. i am not saying I agree with this, but if the game is going to be F2P then some concessions must be made for the devs to make a buck.

You can see this result in the need for 3 mechs to move up the pilot tree.

Mechcommander was good, albeit its balance was pretty shoddy.

I defer to Sybreed's post above mine on the selling of mechs.

Yeah, MC wasn't the best balanced game ever, I just feel it captured the spirit of both BT and MW very well. The combat was tense, rather than massive alpha annihilation, and the niche feel of mechs (for our organized teams out there) made the chassis you selected matter so far as your combat tactics.

[3rdworld]

Sybreed, on 11 June 2013 - 07:35 AM, said:

they would sell even more mechs if there were limiting customization:

"Oh I want a LRM fire support mech, that C1 looks nice"

"But now, a direct fire support would be nice, time to get the K2"

Instead of: "Hmm I'm just gonna put PPCs or LLs in that C1"

you just sold 2 mechs instead of just one

Meh, they would sell more if they were worth owning. Many however, are not.

also: Are you implying people use a C1 for direct fire support? Besides that there are only 4 Catapults. 3 of which are missile based mechs. 2 that can really do nothing else. To level you need 3. Without allowing the C1 to do anything else, you choice is Missiles or K2. Now you have k2 half brawler C1 or missiles.

Tarrasque, on 11 June 2013 - 07:39 AM, said:

Yeah, MC wasn't the best balanced game ever, I just feel it captured the spirit of both BT and MW very well. The combat was tense, rather than massive alpha annihilation, and the niche feel of mechs (for our organized teams out there) made the chassis you selected matter so far as your combat tactics.

Really? I just loaded all my mechs with as many clan ERPPCs as they could hold and the group alpha'd down any mech in range.

Edited by 3rdworld, 11 June 2013 - 07:45 AM.

[Sug]

Soy, on 11 June 2013 - 07:04 AM, said:

If this game didn't have customization, what would be the point again?

Playing an even more limited experience with even more linearity?

Can you customize your MTG cards? Or your Monopoly pieces? Or a deck of standard playing cards? TF/TF2 existed for years before you could change your loadout.

If the devs didn't have to waste a year balancing things to prevent cheesey custom builds (a huge effort that will be completely and utterly wasted when Clan tech is introduced) we might have more mechs/maps and CW by now. You know an actual game...