91 replies to this topic

[WWWWWWWWWWWWW]

This nerf is a dumb solution to a problem that exists only in the minds of terrible publords. Balance the PPC a smidgen and things will be peachy.

EDIT: Its also a super inefficient solution too. This will take way more time/effort to implement than just fine tuning some numbers on the PPC.

Edited by WWWWWWWWWWWWW, 11 June 2013 - 02:39 PM.

[StonedVet]

How about targeting certain mechs with these heat "fixes"? certain mechas are not capable of boating and wont be affected but you HGN/STK/CTF PPC boats will be brought back to being balanced?

[Kaio-Kerensky x10]

Lowridah, on 11 June 2013 - 02:38 PM, said:

I understand people will find other ways around this "fix" but the ONLY way to fix boating is to establish certain weight/weapon size into certain weapon slots like we all have suggested from the start.

Hardpoint sizes won't solve anything, because certain mechs are designed to boat weapons.

[Sprouticus]

Victor Morson, on 11 June 2013 - 02:17 PM, said:

Vastly reducing the alpha and forcing split shots is not a nerf? I... I...

it is an alpha nerf, not a dps nerf. I am perfectly ok with that, especially if it allows them to re-evaluate damage on medium lasers. (which do need some small buff IMO)

[Victor Morson]

Zharot, on 11 June 2013 - 02:35 PM, said:

I don't know if you've played TT, but the 4P has 8MLs in TT and does run around dropping them on people. It's the one thing that the mech is capable of doing. You slot into a position where 0-1 enemies can shoot at you, and wreck them with 40 damage, in both MWO and TT. It's one of a very few mechs that plays exactly the same in TT and MWO, and it's hardly imbalanced in MWO. Why on earth does it need nerfing?


Why do these mechs need to be nerfed?

This is the ultimate question. Light and medium mechs boat light, efficient weapons to do their jobs. Light and medium mechs are in a bad place right now. Why do we need an overcomplicated system that hurts almost all light and medium mechs while only removing a couple of assault builds from play?

I think it's 8ML and a Small on TT if I remember*, but you're entirely right, it operates exactly like this... without this heat spike Zharot's claiming "should be there" because it's what he pictured the 'mech is "supposed to do."

Edited by Victor Morson, 11 June 2013 - 02:52 PM.

[HRR Mary]

Roland, on 11 June 2013 - 02:08 PM, said:

I think that maybe you didn't read Paul's whole post, and are just assuming that it'll be implemented in the worst possible way.

Like they actually solved the LRM unbalance... oh wait, let's say the SRM... oh shoot, let's look at Machine guns!... oh wait again, what about ECM ?? damn it, they surely have done something good on balance one day?

Sarcasm aside, from my perspective each "balance tweak" has been done while looking at symptoms, not causes. This "proposed fix" is exactly the same, not looking WHY there is a predominance of boating configs, but only at How to penalize boating.

and this fix is plain useless when the meta is already shifting towards Gauss centered builds.

[Victor Morson]

Lowridah, on 11 June 2013 - 02:38 PM, said:

I understand people will find other ways around this "fix" but the ONLY way to fix boating is to establish certain weight/weapon size into certain weapon slots like we all have suggested from the start. I was giving an example (swayback) only because it is meant to have a lot of lasers and was a clear example. I got jumped on for it.

To be fair I mostly took issue with the fact that you actually claimed vastly reducing it's weapon effectiveness wasn't a nerf. I think you might have looked up the wrong definition of the term.

[Kaio-Kerensky x10]

Victor Morson, on 11 June 2013 - 02:41 PM, said:

I think it's 8ML and a Small on TT if I remember*, but you're entirely right, it operates exactly like this... without this heat spike Zharot's claiming "should be there" because it's what he pictured the 'mech is "supposed to do."

I don't think any heat spike beyond the normal [number of MLs]x[heat for firing a ML] should be there. Maybe you're thinking of Lowridah, the guy I was replying to?

Sprouticus, on 11 June 2013 - 02:41 PM, said:

it is an alpha nerf, not a dps nerf. I am perfectly ok with that, especially if it allows them to re-evaluate damage on medium lasers. (which do need some small buff IMO)

Any system that requires you to not fire weapons that are off cooldown is a DPS nerf.

[Victor Morson]

Sprouticus, on 11 June 2013 - 02:41 PM, said:

it is an alpha nerf, not a dps nerf. I am perfectly ok with that, especially if it allows them to re-evaluate damage on medium lasers. (which do need some small buff IMO)

Factors you are not considering:

* Pinpointing damage into a critical location
* Needing to go "evasive" between shots (requiring twice as long of an exposure to fire two blasts without huge heat problems)
* Often, you only get a few second window on a target. Welp, there goes a third of your DPS!

If raw DPS is all that mattered, we'd all be running AC/2s and AC/5s.

Zharot, on 11 June 2013 - 02:48 PM, said:

I don't think any heat spike beyond the normal [number of MLs]x[heat for firing a ML] should be there. Maybe you're thinking of Lowridah, the guy I was replying to?

I want to apologize, I meant to write Lowridah there, and typo'ed. I actually looked for the original post to edit out but must have missed it, so figured I didn't get it wrong.

No, you've been spot on man. That was my bad.

[Lootee]

Zharot, on 11 June 2013 - 02:35 PM, said:

Why do these mechs need to be nerfed?

This is the ultimate question. Light and medium mechs boat light, efficient weapons to do their jobs. Light and medium mechs are in a bad place right now. Why do we need an overcomplicated system that hurts almost all light and medium mechs while only removing a couple of assault builds from play?

Because EVERY mech in the game is hitting the same spot with all their weapons.

FYI the HBK fires 8 medium lasers over the span of 10 seconds and each one has a chance of hitting a different component in TT. In this game all that spam comes out at once and seldom do you hit more than 1-2 maybe 3 components at most. That's why things need to change.

Edited by PanchoTortilla, 11 June 2013 - 02:53 PM.

[StonedVet]

Zharot, on 11 June 2013 - 02:40 PM, said:

Hardpoint sizes won't solve anything, because certain mechs are designed to boat weapons.

they need to have the heat damage start around 120% I have no issue with a mech having 6 PPC's its only when it can fire all 6 at once and not melt.

[Victor Morson]

PanchoTortilla, on 11 June 2013 - 02:51 PM, said:

Because EVERY mech in the game is hitting the same spot with all their weapons.

FYI the HBK fires 8 medium lasers over the span of 10 seconds and each one has a chance of hitting a different component in TT. In this game all that spam comes out at once and seldom do you hit more than 1-2 maybe 3 components at most. That's why things need to change.

But you understand that this might impact that, while leaving far, far, far superior weapons untouched, right?

You're arguing to nerf something that's already borderline worthless in the name of killing off an Assault that is a bad gimmick. None of this makes any sense at all.