193 replies to this topic

[Glythe]

I think it's time to resurrect this horse and beat it to death once more. The current state of the PPC is just unbelievable garbage in that it is so much better than every other option. Ballistics really can't get much better unless we double ammunition counts from TT.

When we have 12 players in a game for each side it's going to be a complete mess as ballistic weapons are going to run dry so much faster. This is not a good thing for ballistics as they have always been in need of love. Overall they are a heavy weapon that requires good aim, timing and lots of weight.

The lol point and click PPC outshines the AC/20 in every way when you consider real battlefield conditions. If you have a founders HBK you might have noticed that 1 PPC on each arm will vastly outperform an AC/20 on your shoulder. It is not a case of one is slightly better than the other; PPCs make the ballistic mounts on the 4G obsolete.

I would like to make one exception to the double ammunition rule and that is for Gauss rifles. This is due to the current metagame where they are OP with the other sniper weapons. This does break from TT limits but I think it makes sense in trying to make the game better.

While we are talking about ammunition..... where is the half ton of ammunition option for machine guns?

Edited by Glythe, 13 June 2013 - 06:08 AM.

[Livewyr]

And raise the heat on the PPC.

[General Taskeen]

Ah, MW:LL solved this with Terrain Control game mode. "I'm out of ammo, I'm retreating to main base to re-arm, cover me!"

[Tennex]

I think they need to buff ammo in general.

maybe a 50% buff. double seems a bit much

[Glythe]

Tennex, on 13 June 2013 - 06:11 AM, said:

I think they need to buff ammo in general.

maybe a 50% buff. double seems a bit much

Double table top values would be a slight buff to what we have now..... AC 20 would be 10 shots instead of 5 (currently 7).

[Tennex]

General Taskeen, on 13 June 2013 - 06:11 AM, said:

Ah, MW:LL solved this with Terrain Control game mode. "I'm out of ammo, I'm retreating to main base to re-arm, cover me!"

Somekind of Rearm mechanic would make a lot of sense.

Glythe, on 13 June 2013 - 06:17 AM, said:

Double table top values would be a slight buff to what we have now..... AC 20 would be 10 shots instead of 5 (currently 7).

so not really double MWO values. but double TT values. which is roughly 50% increase from MWO values.

Edited by Tennex, 13 June 2013 - 06:18 AM.

[Karl Streiger]

So this topic again?
And again I'm opposing.

I don't understand the logic that you need more ammuniton in 12 vs 12...you will need only more ammo when your ammo is now able to kill 8 guys... and if you are able to kill 8 guys on your own something bad happend allready...and while the guys in the Training area don't shoot back - so that you will need more ammunition here, the guys in the battle will shoot back - and destroy you before you are able to spend enough ammunition to kill even 1.

[Mechteric]

I tend to agree, double ammo is needed because of double armor, its a pretty 1:1 concept and I agree that having 12 players around is going to stretch what is already a limited situation.

[Alekzander Smirnoff]

You do realize that those additional four players have munitions and other weapons right, its not like its 8v12. There's no need for more ammo, especially when I have plenty even on my missile/ballistic heavy loads now to last pretty much till the end of the match.

[Joseph Mallan]

Funny, I played against more enemy with less ammo on TT. I rarely run out of ammo now, then again I bring 3-4 tons for ACs/LRMs and 1-2 tons for multiple SRM... I say wait and see, before we buff this.

[Karl Streiger]

CapperDeluxe, on 13 June 2013 - 06:26 AM, said:

I tend to agree, double ammo is needed because of double armor, its a pretty 1:1 concept and I agree that having 12 players around is going to stretch what is already a limited situation.

And that is the second not logical argument for more ammunition.
Do you roll dice where to hit your target or do your ability choose were to hit the target

[Bilbo]

With 4 more guys on their team comes four more guys on yours. Theoretically, no change in effective firepower, so no need to increase the sustained firepower of ballistics.

[Shae Starfyre]

I would think that 12v12 would force combined arms tactics instead of having all ballistic, thus making the current ammo count just fine.

[Alekzander Smirnoff]

I predict vaporizingly high amounts of ppc's in the near future.

[HighlandCoo]

There will be four extra players on your own team also doing damage, so there will be no need to increase the amount of ammo carried.

If you were going into battles 8v12 then yeah, totally, you'll need more ammo. But not for 12 v 12. Your not fighting them all by yourself.

Edited by HighlandCoo, 13 June 2013 - 06:52 AM.

[SmokinDave73]

HighlandCoo, on 13 June 2013 - 06:52 AM, said:

There will be four extra players on your own team also doing damage, so there will be no need to increase the amount of ammo carried.

If you were going into battles 8v12 then yeah, totally, you'll need more ammo. But not for 12 v 12. Your not fighting them all by yourself.

This is only on the assumption that the extra 4 players on your team can do above 100 damage in a game which 90% of the time does not happen. Your logic is sound but you forgot to take in to account at how bad disorganised PUG's really are.

I agree the amount of ammo per ton need to be increased before 12 v 12 comes out but I think by 50% would be enough, and then if needed after a further 50% can be added after 12 v 12 goes live.

Edited by SmokinDave73, 13 June 2013 - 07:07 AM.

[Boogie Man]

This has been discussed quite a bit recently. Here is a table I made for that thread that would be relevant for this.

WEAPON --- TT AMMO - MWO AMMO - 2X AMMO
AC2 ---------- 45 ------------ 75 ------------- 90
AC5 ---------- 20 ------------ 30 ------------- 40
UAC5 -------- 20 ------------ 25 ------------- 40
LBX10 ------- 10 ------------ 15 ------------- 20
AC10 -------- 10 ------------ 15 ------------- 20
AC20 -------- 5 -------------- 7 -------------- 10
GAUSS ------ 8 -------------- 10 ------------ 16

LRM --------- 120 -----------180 ------------- 240
SRM --------- 100 ----------- 100 ------------ 200
SSRM ------- 100 ----------- 100 ------------ 200

MG ----------- 200* ---------- 2000 ---------- 4000

Machine Gun is a special case because they basically divided a single round of TT ammo into 10 rounds in this game so 200 TT is the same as 2000 MWO rounds.

This is the thread:

http://mwomercs.com/...ammo-per-tonne/

[mania3c]

There is not universal answer if more ammo is needed ..

It all depends if 12v12 matches will lead to longer games ..if yes.. ammo is needed.. if not..well..than it's not needed.. we have to wait and see what will happen..

[Ngamok]

I understand what you are saying and I will counter with Lore. There is a reason why mech pilots went with energy heavy builds on long campaigns over ammunition heavy builds. If you have a mech that loads out all ammunition and you start running out on 12 vs. 12, you did something wrong.

Also, what Karl Streiger said.

[Clydewinder]

put more ammo on your mech