17 replies to this topic

[ArmandTulsen]

Change the upgrade system. Change it so that when you purchase an upgrade for a mech reverting to the downgrade has no cost.

Please. Thanks.

Edited by miSs, 17 June 2013 - 09:56 AM.
Let's keep God out of a gaming forum board

[FupDup]

It's designed specifically to be a colossal waste of your spacebucks so you're more likely to buy Premium Time. Working as intended.

[ArmandTulsen]

I see...

That's not going to work with me, but gg, come again, PGI.

[Hexenhammer]

I think of it this way. I'm stripping the mech down to its frame and transferringit to a new, lighter one. Its like moving everything from one house to another. It takes time and effort and it isn't cheap.

[dario03]

Hexenhammer, on 14 June 2013 - 05:36 PM, said:

I think of it this way. I'm stripping the mech down to its frame and transferringit to a new, lighter one. Its like moving everything from one house to another. It takes time and effort and it isn't cheap.

Which makes sense but why can't it be cheaper after the first time? Why can't I keep those old parts in a storage bin some where and pay something like half to cover the work. Or maybe keep them in storage hanger lockers and if somebody doesn't logon for like a month or something they go up for auction and we can have a show called Mech Storage Wars where we bid on what we can see from the front hanger door

Edited by dario03, 14 June 2013 - 06:03 PM.

[Zordicron]

dario03, on 14 June 2013 - 06:01 PM, said:

Which makes sense but why can't it be cheaper after the first time? Why can't I keep those old parts in a storage bin some where and pay something like half to cover the work. Or maybe keep them in storage hanger lockers and if somebody doesn't logon for like a month or something they go up for auction and we can have a show called Mech Storage Wars where we bid on what we can see from the front hanger door

lol

"oohhh hey...I think I see an XL400 peeking out from under that pile of flamers.......10,00 C-bills!!"

[Karazyr]

ArmandTulsen, on 14 June 2013 - 05:35 PM, said:

I see...

That's not going to work with me, but gg, come again, PGI.

your tears, they are delicious.

[Sol Reapr]

When converting from Standard armor to Endo-Steel or vise versa, the 'mechs entire internal structure basically needs to be hacked out, it is not something that is modular.

When converting to Ferro-Fibrous you are essentially paying only for the "engineers time" to refit the 'mech. When you switch back and forth you do get to keep the armor, it sits in your inventory as either Standard Armor or Ferro-Fibrous armor.

Double Heat Sinks are essentially the same as Ferro-Fibrous, you are paying "labor" to convert the heat sinks in your engine back and forth, but the external heat sinks you keep and don't have to pay for.

Now maybe one thing they could do is have Double Heat Sinks apply to each particular engine instead of the 'mech as a whole. That way if you wanted to you could pay to upgrade an engine to doubles, and swap it with another engine for free.

[Levi Porphyrogenitus]

The lore explanation is that it's mostly labor costs. Astechs are super rare, and full-on Techs are even harder to find. Good luck getting one to swap out a mech's internal structure for free.

The in-game reason is likely that it serves as something of a c-bill sink. Different builds of the same mech might need standard versions of some things and enhanced versions of others, and if you want to play both builds you either buy two of the same chassis or your pay to swap out the upgrades. In any kind of pve economy (and just because MWO is pvp-only doesn't mean the economy is pvp), if you don't have money sinks then inflation inevitably sets in, and so there must be expenses available to remove money from players' bank accounts.

If a weapon costs 50k c-bills and you earn 100k per match, then it is trivially easy to buy new weapons. When DHS cost 1.5 m and SHS half that to install, then suddenly you have a much larger time commitment to pay for your upgrades (from less than one match to fifteen matches).

If money becomes a non-issue then one of the major incentives to play simply disappears. XP is already running into this same problem, though their regular GXP conversion sales and the fact that you do earn GXP as a % of earned mech XP does help to keep it at least a little bit relevant. If c-bills became as easily available without enough stuff to spend them on then the only thing left for people to play for would be stats (which are hidden) and fun (which is subjective and very ephemeral).

[dario03]

Sol Reapr, on 14 June 2013 - 07:44 PM, said:

When converting from Standard armor to Endo-Steel or vise versa, the 'mechs entire internal structure basically needs to be hacked out, it is not something that is modular.

When converting to Ferro-Fibrous you are essentially paying only for the "engineers time" to refit the 'mech. When you switch back and forth you do get to keep the armor, it sits in your inventory as either Standard Armor or Ferro-Fibrous armor.

Double Heat Sinks are essentially the same as Ferro-Fibrous, you are paying "labor" to convert the heat sinks in your engine back and forth, but the external heat sinks you keep and don't have to pay for.

Now maybe one thing they could do is have Double Heat Sinks apply to each particular engine instead of the 'mech as a whole. That way if you wanted to you could pay to upgrade an engine to doubles, and swap it with another engine for free.

Which also makes sense. However

[Sol Reapr]

Ah well, can't argue with Adam.

[LordBraxton]

the logic people use t justify the cost makes no sense

I can switch the damn fusion engine or primary armament on my mech for free

you think switching out a fusion engine would require no labor?

man I am drunk right now

[Felbombling]

Bryan answered this in Ask the Devs... something about time and effort involved for the techs to make the change from A to B.

[Echo6]

LordBraxton, on 14 June 2013 - 08:52 PM, said:

the logic people use t justify the cost makes no sense

I can switch the damn fusion engine or primary armament on my mech for free

you think switching out a fusion engine would require no labor?

man I am drunk right now

The things you cite are actually the things that make no sense. I think there ought to be an installation cost for any part you change out. (I really don't think you should be able to change engines at all.)

[GingerBang]

"simulator"

[ArmandTulsen]

Hexenhammer, on 14 June 2013 - 05:36 PM, said:

I think of it this way. I'm stripping the mech down to its frame and transferringit to a new, lighter one. Its like moving everything from one house to another. It takes time and effort and it isn't cheap.

No, I won't think of it that way...

Levi Porphyrogenitus, on 14 June 2013 - 07:56 PM, said:

The lore explanation is that it's mostly labor costs.  Astechs are super rare, and full-on Techs are even harder to find.  Good luck getting one to swap out a mech's internal structure for free.

The in-game reason is likely that it serves as something of a c-bill sink.  Different builds of the same mech might need standard versions of some things and enhanced versions of others, and if you want to play both builds you either buy two of the same chassis or your pay to swap out the upgrades.  In any kind of pve economy (and just because MWO is pvp-only doesn't mean the economy is pvp), if you don't have money sinks then inflation inevitably sets in, and so there must be expenses available to remove money from players' bank accounts.

If a weapon costs 50k c-bills and you earn 100k per match, then it is trivially easy to buy new weapons.  When DHS cost 1.5 m and SHS half that to install, then suddenly you have a much larger time commitment to pay for your upgrades (from less than one match to fifteen matches).

If money becomes a non-issue then one of the major incentives to play simply disappears.  XP is already running into this same problem, though their regular GXP conversion sales and the fact that you do earn GXP as a % of earned mech XP does help to keep it at least a little bit relevant.  If c-bills became as easily available without enough stuff to spend them on then the only thing left for people to play for would be stats (which are hidden) and fun (which is subjective and very ephemeral).

...I'll think of it this way - a c-bill sink. A way to keep the grind meaningful on some level when you have everything you want/need.

[Adrienne Vorton]

FupDup, on 14 June 2013 - 05:29 PM, said:

It's designed specifically to be a colossal waste of your spacebucks so you're more likely to buy Premium Time. Working as intended.

Hexenhammer, on 14 June 2013 - 05:36 PM, said:

I think of it this way. I'm stripping the mech down to its frame and transferringit to a new, lighter one. Its like moving everything from one house to another. It takes time and effort and it isn't cheap.

both

[Sephlock]

Hexenhammer, on 14 June 2013 - 05:36 PM, said:

I think of it this way. I'm stripping the mech down to its frame and transferringit to a new, lighter one. Its like moving everything from one house to another. It takes time and effort and it isn't cheap.

Then why can't I get my ***** friends to help me move that stuff?

Edited by Sephlock, 15 June 2013 - 07:47 AM.