36 replies to this topic

[Signal27]

I'm seriously thinking about buying a Heavy Metal. I've made myself a few builds in Smurfy's MechLab, and the one thing I'm wondering is if I can get by with only one jump jet. I would only use it to get over low terrain or to turn faster. However, I've never owned a Highlander before so I don't know if a jump-jet equipped 90-ton Assault mech would even be capable of that with just one jump jet.

Can anyone let me know of their own experiences and give me a recommendation? Thanks!

[SgtMagor]

before the last patch I only put 1 jump jet on my HM seemed to work ok, dunno about now.

[One Medic Army]

I don't feel much turn-speed benefit from having jets, but they're definitely nice to have in Tourmaline and Canyon.
It's also quite fun to be able to jump over an enemy atlas, or otherwise vertically escape torso mounted weapons.

As to if you only need 1, check it out in the training grounds.

[Xmith]

Use at least 2 jets. 2 is the bare minimum.

[OneEyed Jack]

I used 2 before the JJ shake, to give me more air time in a brawl (dodging torso weapons) and/or for more time to use my lasers accurately. After, I dropped to 1, like all my other HGNs. There's only a very small difference in achievable height with more JJs, the primary difference being hang time at the top, which equates into distance if moving.

Of course, more also leaves you more fuel to cushion the fall, but what the hell, right?

[Pater Mors]

My Highlander opinions have earned me ire from the 'elite' crowd. People cry, "Buy an Atlas instead!". My opinion is: forget jump jets. One is not enough and more than one eats up tonnage that could better be spent on packing more gunz.

Keep in mind that my playstyle doesn't find a benefit from the additional mobility of JJ's on an Assault. Really, what it comes down to is whether it fits your playstyle or not.

[Yiazmat]

2 jjs can get you to the first ledge on the cididel in river city from the water in the heavy metal.  can't make it with just 1. as a rule of thumb, if you can't jump-twist-land-alpha an atlas in its back, you don't have enough jj's

Edited by Yiazmat, 15 June 2013 - 02:59 PM.

[Angel of Annihilation]

I have Heavy Metal plus two other Highlanders and you absolutely need at least 3 JJs for them to be useful at all. However, JJs in general due to their very shortened range (compared to how they are suppose to be) plus the new shake suffer from limited usefulness so you can ditch them entirely if you want. I mean 6 tons is alot of weight for 3 JJs.

Personally I still have them equiped because even with the limited situational use, they definately make it easier to navigate the battlefield and sometimes allow me to really get the drop on enemy mechs and approach from angles they aren't expecting.

Edited by Viktor Drake, 15 June 2013 - 03:49 PM.

[Wintersdark]

Some terrible wrongness in this thread.

Seriously, one jump jet in a highlander can get you anywhere you need to be with ease. You can still poptart effectively, but only if you take 5 (so you can get high enough to have a decent amount of fall time), but one JJ gets you anywhere you want to be.

Using a Highlander without jump jets is just silly, take an atlas instead. But I'll take a highlander with 1 JJ over an Atlas any day - the added mobility is absolutely worth it. The Atlas can move only in predictable paths, and can be lead into traps as a result, but the HGN can just hop out.

Take River City. Once an Atlas is in the water, there are only certain spots he can get out. The HGN with even one jump jet can get out anywhere. I've used this countless times to disengage, or to pursue a mech on land without having to trudge all over creation.

There's no turn speed increase, all it does is allow you to make a turn in the same amount of time but at a sharp angle by turning while jetting.

The real benefit, though, is the maps are absolutely littered with little obstacles that are impassible for an Atlas or other assault but are trivial to hop over in a 1JJ Highlander. And, one JJ is still more than enough to get on top of all but the largest buildings. The gains for additional jump jets are very minor; very little cannot be scaled with one, and at the added 2 tons per jet, more are just not worth it IMHO.

Ultimately, the mobility advantages alone are absolutely worth the paltry 2 ton+1 slot investment. Gains after that are limited, only slightly more jump distance, as the primary mobility advantage is already gained with one.

Viktor Drake, on 15 June 2013 - 03:49 PM, said:

I have Heavy Metal plus two other Highlanders and you absolutely need at least 3 JJs for them to be useful at all. However, JJs in general due to their very shortened range (compared to how they are suppose to be) plus the new shake suffer from limited usefulness so you can ditch them entirely if you want. I mean 6 tons is alot of weight for 3 JJs.

Personally I still have them equiped because even with the limited situational use, they definately make it easier to navigate the battlefield and sometimes allow me to really get the drop on enemy mechs and approach from angles they aren't expecting.

Show me where you need 3 JJ's to get that you can't get with one. Barring really tall buildings, at least, you can climb any hill, hop over any obstacle (ridges, small buildings, crystal formations, etc). Tourmaline? Canyons? These are maps where even a single jump jet makes an enormous difference.

Back when we were poptarting (whether people admit it or not - I fully admit I did, and extensively) you needed at least 3 to get good hang time for a decent shot. Today, if you're not even trying to poptart? I'd argue 3 jets is an absolute waste.

[Pater Mors]

Wintersdark, on 15 June 2013 - 04:26 PM, said:

Using a Highlander without jump jets is just silly, take an atlas instead. But I'll take a highlander with 1 JJ over an Atlas any day - the added mobility is absolutely worth it. The Atlas can move only in predictable paths, and can be lead into traps as a result, but the HGN can just hop out.

I knew we'd get one eventually. We'll see how silly it is next time we meet on the field of battle.

[Deathlike]

I don't plan to use Highlanders until after the short Quickdraw meta, but as far as I can tell, to be most effective on most maps, you will always need 2 or 3 JJs to do most of the stuff on most maps. You will still have to test it out in live play though to be sure.

Edited by Deathlike, 15 June 2013 - 04:31 PM.

[Wintersdark]

Pater Mors, on 15 June 2013 - 04:28 PM, said:

I knew we'd get one eventually. We'll see how silly it is next time we meet on the field of battle.

Sure.

You're seriously going to argue that the mobility advantage gained by a jump jet is completely negated by 2 tons/1 slot freed? That's a pretty trivial amount in a 90 ton assault.

I'd take that matchup any day. The JJ capable HGN can approach or escape from pretty much any vector, while the non-JJ version must follow predictable paths. The non-JJ version has, what, a bit more leg armor and an extra ton of ammo?

Sure, taking no JJ's is better than 5 (or even 3) IMHO, now that poptarting is nerfed, as 10 tons and 5 slots is a huge investment... But 1? There's a HUGE gain with one jump jet at a trivial cost.

Particularly now given maps like River City, Tourmaline, or Canyons. Especially Canyons.

Deathlike, on 15 June 2013 - 04:31 PM, said:

I don't plan to use Highlanders until after the short Quickdraw meta, but as far as I can tell, to be most effective on most maps, you will always need 2 or 3 JJs to do most of the stuff on most maps. You will still have to test it out in live play though to be sure.

I challenge anyone to name a place, barring the tops of large buildings, you can't get with one.

I used to use lots, and I've dropped to one on all my HGN's, specifically because of this. There's nowhere I can't get with one.

Edited by Wintersdark, 15 June 2013 - 04:38 PM.

[Pater Mors]

Wintersdark, on 15 June 2013 - 04:38 PM, said:

Sure.

You're seriously going to argue that the mobility advantage gained by a jump jet is completely negated by 2 tons/1 slot freed? That's a pretty trivial amount in a 90 ton assault.

I'd take that matchup any day. The JJ capable HGN can approach or escape from pretty much any vector, while the non-JJ version must follow predictable paths. The non-JJ version has, what, a bit more leg armor and an extra ton of ammo?

Sure, taking no JJ's is better than 5 (or even 3) IMHO, now that poptarting is nerfed, as 10 tons and 5 slots is a huge investment... But 1? There's a HUGE gain with one jump jet at a trivial cost.

Particularly now given maps like River City, Tourmaline, or Canyons. Especially Canyons.

No, I'm not going to argue that. That's neither what I said or implied. I'm going to argue that taking no JJ's on a HGN does not inherently mean I should 'just take an Atlas' and that it's not a silly thing to do.

Extra mobility does not suit certain playstyles, especially in Assaults. I would never take the JJ's off my Jenner but I absolutely do not need them to run my HGN at 100% of it's effectiveness for the style I play in. Some people might hate JJ's on their Jenner but love them on their HGN.

You on the other hand might need JJ's to run a HGN at 100% for your style and I would never say you were silly or should just take something else instead. That's the point that I like to get across whenever someone wants to tell me what 'the best way to play' is.

I got no issues having a match up with anyone vs anything and I am confident in my abilities to run the builds I like and be effective against any other build.

[Deathlike]

Wintersdark, on 15 June 2013 - 04:39 PM, said:

I challenge anyone to name a place, barring the tops of large buildings, you can't get with one.

I used to use lots, and I've dropped to one on all my HGN's, specifically because of this. There's nowhere I can't get with one.

Well, the only place that comes to mind is if you try to STRAIGHT JJ from the the lower water areas to the main citadel floor from the lower base side. I haven't tried it with one... although I remember when I had trouble JJ over short buildings with too few JJs in a Catapult...

I guess it's a matter of convenience than it is a necessity.

[Amsro]

STD 330
3 Large Laser, 11 DHS
1 Gauss, 4 tonnes ammo
1 JJ
Max Armor

Best Highlander I have. All pinpoint damage.

One JJ is more then enough

[JackPoint]

STD330
1Gauss 30 rounds
2ER PPC's
AMS-1t ammo
Endo+ferro
555 Armour 65.9KPH
1 JumpJet
13dhs

Can also do 3LLS 1 gauss with same build just thin down a bit of armour to 519.

Edited by Jackpoint, 15 June 2013 - 11:46 PM.

[Tahribator]

I cannot believe the amount of people running their HM's with 1JJ. If you're using only 1JJ with the Heavy Metal, then you're missing half the effectiveness it offers. Jumpjets are not only a mean to get to points you cannot get by walking or help you turn. It's an asset for brawls; it gets you out of bad situations, it helps you spread damage, it messes up enemies' aim and it confuses other assaults(where did he go?). So the more you have and the more time you spend it air, the more you frustrate the enemy.

I mastered all the Highlanders before buying Heavy Metal and I had some support Highlanders which I only operated with 1JJ, and that's fine. But to make the most out of the Heavy Metal, you have to use all the advantages it offers:

• Biggest engine HGN's can use
  
• 5 JJ's
  
• 3 energy hardpoints on arm(perfect for 3LL or 3MPL)

Yesterday I 1v1'd with another Heavy Metal who was using exactly the same build (1 Gauss + 3LL) and I came out on top because while he was sitting down, waiting for me to come down or wondering where the heck did I go, I was in the air working on his CT. I was barely scratched when he was down. When I called on him why he didn't use jumpjets, he told me he had one but didn't bother using it . . . If you're not going to use the jumpjets, do yourself a favour and save yourself the 33$.

Edited by Tahribator, 16 June 2013 - 01:35 AM.

[DarkDevilDancer]

I wouldn't want to do canyons in a highlander without jj that's for damn sure, the extra mobility is a life saver, being able to jump in a brawl also lets you take a hit on your legs instead of your chest which can make all the difference.

[JackPoint]

One Jump jet gets you 6 meters, plenty enough bounce for brawling avoidance-navigating terrain.

[oldradagast]

I'm going to have to disagree with the suggestion that "one jump jet is good enough." That is true only if you are willing to give up the ability to use jumpjets in a brawl to spread damage across your mech. I've beaten too many Highlanders in brawls over the weeks who had only 1 jump jet, and it was sad watching them gain a little altitude, take all the hits in their torso, fall to the ground, and then repeat the process.

If you want to be able to clear other mechs by jumping and really take advantage of the damage spreading and mobility of jump jets in brawl, you need at least 2 of them. More is optional, but one is truly not enough, at least not on a Highlander.,

Edited by oldradagast, 16 June 2013 - 06:36 AM.