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Arghmace's Balance Overhaul


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#1 arghmace

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Posted 16 June 2013 - 06:33 AM

I decided to gather up all my thoughts about balance to one thread. To avoid this becoming an enormous post, I'm gonna skip some specific numbers at least for now.

1. Heat system

Right now a mech with only the minimum required 10 engine double heat sinks and all pilot skills unlocked has a heat cap of 60. With 16 sinks the heat cap is at 70 and with 22 sinks at 80. What I propose is severely reducing this and making the heat cap independent of the amount of heat sinks. A base value of 40 would mean 48 with all the pilot skills unlocked. This would still allow you to alpha strike 4 ER PPC's or 6 large lasers or 9 medium lasers but that would get you very close to the cap.

Now to balance this out, heat dissipation should be doubled. Also remember that the current value of 0.1 heat per second is originally in line with weapons firing once per 10 seconds. In MWO weapons fire more than twice that fast so quicker dissipation is reasonable just for this. And remember, heat capacity is NOT raised with heat sinks in my proposition so sinks need to be more useful for dissipation.

So a single heat sink would be 0.2 dissipation per second.
IS doubles should be 0.3 for the 10 engine heat sinks. Extra heat sinks true doubles so 0.4.
Clan doubles (which take only 2 critical slots) would be same as singles for the 10 engine sinks but once again true doubles at 0.4 heat dissipated per second for the extra engine sinks and external sinks.

This would make both the Inner Sphere and Clan doubles usable depending on your build. If you don't need much sinks, IS doubles are better, but if you need lots of sinks, go for the Clan versions. Also note that mechs with only engine heat sinks wouldn't suffer as much from the above heat capacity change as would those with many external sinks. This is why it would be reasonable to make the external sinks better in dissipation that engine sinks. Otherwise cooler mechs would gain a huge buff compared to hotter mechs.


2. Ballistics

I'm not gonna get into numbers here but just lay out the main rules for regular AC's, Ultras and LBX-cannons.

Regular AC's should be the ones with greatest range. You wanna snipe with ballistics, get regular AC.

Ultras should be the dakkadakka so better ROF but at a cost of range. Also throw out the double-shot and jamming mechanics completely to make balancing easier and game less dependent on luck.

LBX AC's should be the ones that pack the best alpha punch per ton. They are already lighter than others so just make them able to use normal ammo. The balancing factor compared to regular AC's would be once again lesser range. Also make the scatter shot do 1.25 damage per pellet.


3. Lasers

The main problem in balancing normal lasers and pulse lasers is the difference in range. MPL and LPL suffer badly from short range while SPL actually has the same range as normal small laser.

So first of all increase the range of normal small laser from 90 to 135 meters. Now we have a universal rule of normal lasers having 50% more optimal range than pulse lasers.

Then apply a range multiplier of 3 to pulse lasers. This would mean that while their optimal range is less, they actually have the same max range as regular beam lasers. So pulse lasers would still be a bit gimbed in range, but not so much.

On top of that the difference in beam duration should be somewhat bigger to separate the pulse lasers more from beam lasers. This should naturally be balanced by heat as well as tonnage, but once again I'm not gonna get into specific numbers here. Maybe later...


4. PPC's

Drop the projectile speed of regular PPC from 2000 to 1500m/s.
Apply the 90 meter min range to ER PPC as well. Not a hard limit, mind you, but linear damage reduction closer than that.


5. SRM's

Buff the damage per missile to 2.
Set the heat values to 2, 4 and 6 for corresponding laucher sizes.
Set the cooldowns to 3, 3.5 and 4 for SRM2, 4 and 6.

So basically buff them up a bit generally but most importantly make it so that SRM2 is usable as well instead of everyone just using SRM6.


6. LRM's

Make them fire and forget. No need to keep looking at the enemy once the missiles are off.
Make the lock-on time significantly longer to balance out the buff above.

Dmg, flight speed, heat, rof... these here are the small things to be used to balance them out. My main point is making it harder to get a lock-on (right now it's almost instantaneous with TAG and Artemis) but once you get it, fire away and start doing something else instead of keeping the target. So a quite major change in the basic functionality of LRM's.


7. Artemis, TAG and NARC

NARC shouldn't be shot off so easily. Only TAG and NARC should reduce the lock-on time. They should also improve tracking but not make the missile formation smaller. Note that since LRM's would be fire and forget, it would be up to you if you wanna get better tracking with TAG after launching the missiles.

Artemis should just improve tracking and be the only equipment to get a smaller formation (for both LRM's and SRM's) and of course only when enemy is in sight. No lock-on bonus for Artemis. Notice that smaller grouping (=better coring) would be only possible with direct sight since TAG and NARC wouldn't help with this.

Also make Artemis' weight (and maybe size) dependent on launcher size so it would also be usable for launchers such as SRM2 and LRM5.


8. AMS

Make it shoot down a percentage of incoming missiles instead of a certain amount of missiles. This way it would be more useful against 3xLRM20 boats while not completely blocking a single LRM5 launcher. So basically instead of a targeting autocannon it would fire flak bursts.


9. ECM and BAP

I'm not gonna get into this now :)
They are actually pretty good now. Not the way I'd prefer, but more balanced than ever before.


10. Streaks, MG's and Flamers

Well, there's already a patch coming that will make Streak missiles hit not only Center Torso but other parts as well, so fine. MG's and Flamers still need love but I believe some further buffs were on the way as well. So no comment for now.


11. Weight class balance

Medium mechs should be shrinked down a bit. They are just too huge. Making them a smaller target to hit would improve them quite a bit and thus hopefully make mediums more attractive to more players.


12. Heat penalties

At 75% heat the HUD starts to flicker and crosshair will wander like with jump jets.
At 75% weapon recycle times and all maneuverability (max speed, acceleration, deceleration, leg twist, torso twist and jump jet power) suffer a penalty of 5%. At 100% this penalty is raised to 10% if pilot overrides shutdown.

At 125% heat you will start taking damage. No matter if you override the shutdown or not. If you alpha strike yourself to 150% heat it's gonna take time even in shutdown mode to lower the heat below 125%. Firstly the damage should be done to all extra heat sinks so they pop out. The required 10 engine sinks cannot be destroyed but once extra sinks are destroyed you start taking damage to internals (possible ammo explosions included).

If a pilot overrides shutdown and lingers long in the 100-125% range, the same damage effects as over 125 start taking place.


13. Soft hard point sizes

There should be two different sizes of weapons and weapon hard points. Small and large. But the limit in hard point size shouldn't be hardwired, you could work around it by paying a bit extra. This way free customization is not killed but we do get some more variety to mech variants, they represent better what they're designed for and boating and cheesy builds can be curbed a bit.

Whenever you put a large weapon to a small hard point, you have to pay 10% more tonnage rounded up to closest half ton. So a 5 ton weapon retrofitted to a too small hard point would weight 5.5 and a 7 ton weapon 8 tons. Basically you have to do some tinkering to make the weapon fit, some extra support structures and such.

Energy weapons: PPC's and Large lasers are large, the rest small.
Ballistics: Gauss and AC20 are large, AC10 should probably be considered small.
Missiles: LRM20 and LRM15 are large, even SRM6 should be small, I think.

Let's take STK-3F for instance. It would have large energy hard points in side torsi and in the arms one large and one small. Or maybe all in arms small? Well, let's go with one and one for now. So if you wanna go for 4 PPC's, the normal way would be two in the arms and two in the torso. If you wanna put them all to your arms, you gotta pay 2 extra tons.

The ballistic hard points in CPLT-K2 are small so if you wanna equip Gausses, they weight 16.5 tons each.

STK-5M could perhaps maintain large missile hard points in its arms but those in the torso are certainly small. So you cannot strap on 5 x LRM15 in that chassis without paying a bit extra.

Edited by arghmace, 17 June 2013 - 10:37 AM.


#2 ExtremeA79

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Posted 16 June 2013 - 06:38 AM

I agree with some things here, such as Lasers..
Lore wise UAC's have a higher range than AC's as well. Only thing is that it fires faster and jams.
LBx's are a problem and need to be fixed. I think they need to have higher damage as the damage is spread across a mech.

#3 arghmace

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Posted 16 June 2013 - 06:42 AM

View PostDarren Tyler, on 16 June 2013 - 06:38 AM, said:

Lore wise UAC's have a higher range than AC's as well.


I know, but sticking to the lore is not always wise. Basically the lore is unbalanced. it has equipment that simply gets replaced by better equipment. A power curve of things just getting better and better is not the way to go. This is also why I added a downside to Clan double heat sinks compared to IS sinks.

Edited by arghmace, 16 June 2013 - 06:45 AM.


#4 ExtremeA79

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Posted 16 June 2013 - 06:48 AM

View Postarghmace, on 16 June 2013 - 06:42 AM, said:


I know, but sticking to the lore is not always wise. Basically the lore is unbalanced. it has equipment that simply gets replaced by better equipment. A power curve of things just getting better and better is not the way to go. This is also why I added a downside to Clan double heat sinks compared to IS sinks.


Well that is true. I am worried when Clan tech arrives. Imagine the 6 ppc stalker. Now it has 6 Clan ER ppc's even more damage than PPC's.

#5 arghmace

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Posted 16 June 2013 - 06:51 AM

12. Heat penalties

At 75% heat the HUD starts to flicker and crosshair will wander like with jump jets.
At 125% heat you will start taking damage. No matter if you override the shutdown or not. If you alpha strike yourself to 150% heat it's gonna take time even in shutdown mode to lower the heat below 125%. Firstly the damage should be done to all extra heat sinks so they pop out. The required 10 engine sinks cannot be destroyed but once extra sinks are destroyed you start taking damage to internals.

Added this to first post as well

#6 ExtremeA79

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Posted 16 June 2013 - 07:02 AM

I really agree with damage over 100% thing, it needs to be added to help deter boating.

#7 arghmace

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Posted 16 June 2013 - 07:09 AM

Oh yes, almost forgot...

13. Forget this nonsense of 4 ER PPC's fired at once getting a heat penalty but 2 ER PPC's and 2 PPC's or 3 ER PPC's and 1 Gauss not getting a penalty. That's just a way too complex and arbitrary system that will cause a huge amount of problems in the future.

#8 FiiFoo

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Posted 16 June 2013 - 08:21 AM

I like it how 1 & 12 would help new players. Builds with SHS would be much more usable and sinks popping out first would give real penalty to overheating without being too unforgiving (like mech exploding to bits is).

Edited by FiiFoo, 16 June 2013 - 08:21 AM.


#9 KKRonkka

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Posted 16 June 2013 - 11:11 AM

Good post, especially cons of bad heat management. Part 4... as suggested heat penalties would surely bite energy weapons the hardest, especially PPC weapons... while those are kings of the battlefield now in order to avoid making PPC's enter category "almost useless" again it would be nice to see enhanched EMP feature at the cost of projectile speed/heat nerf. Flickering HUD/, things like that. For close combat purposes there could be Snub-Nose PPC without min. range.

#10 PEEFsmash

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Posted 16 June 2013 - 11:17 AM

Wasn't bad until "crosshairs wander at 75% heat." Brawlers live at high heat, PPC snipers don't. They usually have less than 75% heat before they shoot. This would be a hard nerf to brawling, and not much of one to PPC sniping.

#11 arghmace

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Posted 16 June 2013 - 11:30 AM

View PostPEEFsmash, on 16 June 2013 - 11:17 AM, said:

Wasn't bad until "crosshairs wander at 75% heat." Brawlers live at high heat, PPC snipers don't. They usually have less than 75% heat before they shoot. This would be a hard nerf to brawling, and not much of one to PPC sniping.


Somewhat true, but we cannot make everything revolve around PPC's. If we want some heat penalties near 100% (whatever those may be) which many have recently advocated for, then brawlers just gotta live with it. If this would make PPC snipers too good as you think (which I don't, really) then make some other adjustments. But we shouldn't avoid heat penalties just because of PPC.

Edited by arghmace, 16 June 2013 - 11:31 AM.


#12 PEEFsmash

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Posted 16 June 2013 - 11:32 AM

View Postarghmace, on 16 June 2013 - 11:30 AM, said:


Somewhat true, but we cannot make everything revolve around PPC's. If we want some heat penalties near 100% (whatever those may be) which many have recently advocated for, then brawlers just gotta live with it. If this would make PPC snipers too good as you think (which I don't, really) then make some other adjustments. But we shouldn't avoid heat penalties just because of PPC.


Brawling needs to be buffed. Any nerf to already weak brawlers is wrong-headed. We do not need heat penalties of this sort.

#13 Screech

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Posted 16 June 2013 - 11:39 AM

Don't like the LRM changes honestly, penalize folks who use LRM as a direct fire weapon and Tag their own targets. Would rather have them extend the range of Tag to 1000.

#14 arghmace

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Posted 16 June 2013 - 12:47 PM

View PostPEEFsmash, on 16 June 2013 - 11:32 AM, said:

Brawling needs to be buffed. Any nerf to already weak brawlers is wrong-headed. We do not need heat penalties of this sort.


Well, I do buff SRM's above and nerf PPC's. Also lower heat cap and faster dissipation certainly helps balanced brawler builds compared to high alpha builds. And while I didn't go into very specific numbers conserning pulse lasers, you may catch the drift of making them better which would also help brawlers. And I'm also buffing LBX AC's and making medium mechs better at hunting down alpha snipers.

The thing to notice is that some sort of heat penalties would be a fun element. If we go by by your logic, we throw that fun away. Better to incorporate the fun while taking care of weapon balance in other ways. As I have in the points above, I believe. Don't just look at that one thing, look at the big picture.

#15 arghmace

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Posted 16 June 2013 - 01:02 PM

View PostScreech, on 16 June 2013 - 11:39 AM, said:

Don't like the LRM changes honestly, penalize folks who use LRM as a direct fire weapon and Tag their own targets. Would rather have them extend the range of Tag to 1000.


They would still be better with direct line of sight, just not so much, agreed. But actually my main grievance with current LRM's is exactly the fact that they are most of all direct fire weapons like everything else and considerably weaker at in-direct fire which after all should be their niche. The fire and forget -functionality would really improve their usability on this account and make them more what they're supposed to be.

#16 Pater Mors

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Posted 16 June 2013 - 01:08 PM

I agree with most of this, not all of it, but most.

For the heat changes (shameless plug ahead) please check my signature and sign the petition since it's basically for exactly what you described in point 1 (minus HS changes at this stage).

Edited by Pater Mors, 16 June 2013 - 01:08 PM.


#17 Fyrerock

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Posted 16 June 2013 - 01:51 PM

The brawlers have no problems taking down a range mech if they can get close, do you guys really want to go back to the days, where an assault brawler could engage at close range 2 to 3 other assault mechs set up for range and win every time. This game has been out for a while and a fair bit of the player base can hit large running targets at max range, then you add people working together to bring down range target fast, it makes it hard for a brawler to get close.

If this game had shields it would allow the brawler to get close before they would take much in the way of range damage, but since this game will never have shields it will mean a brawler will not be at 100 percent when they go over a hill and engage 2 other mechs at close range.

#18 Asmudius Heng

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Posted 16 June 2013 - 03:44 PM

Wow - i expected someone to go on and on with complex and useless ideas that will not be implemented, however i actually AGREE with nearly all of this.

I think Pulse lasers should keep thier short range though and just get higher damage and slightl lower heat than they do now. Their base range increased a little mind you but still the regular double drop off.

Apart from that I like all of it and have posted similar things for a long time. I like the fact you take into account that smaller launchers like the SRM2 need to have a reason to exist so faster recyc time gives them a niche which is brilliant.

#19 Jape

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Posted 16 June 2013 - 10:58 PM

Great ideas! Exactly what I have been thinking except for the heat sink part, but even that is very close to the way I would like them. Nice.

#20 Praehotec8

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Posted 16 June 2013 - 11:52 PM

I think most of these are pretty good changes, but not the crosshair shake. Decreased accuracy at high temps is fine, but I can't stand the way the crosshair shake looks. It's just irritating.





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