35 replies to this topic

[Pater Mors]

Fabe, on 16 June 2013 - 01:34 PM, said:

Ah I see you're worried about some "noob" getting luck and taking you out with a lucky shot. To bad ,the lucky ammo shot is a part of battletech and we were promised a near to battletech experience as possible from the very start . Sounds to me you just don't want something that adversely affects you in the game so you're crying for it to get nerfed.

If they're made more frequent and more damaging then people will STOP dumping them in their legs. The only reason that's the way it is now is because there's basically no penalty. It's exceptionally rare for me to die from an ammo explosion and I fill my legs with ammo all the time, as I am sure everyone else does.

If suddenly it was happening a lot more often, I might actually have to think about where to put my ammo and whether or not to use CASE. Shock horror... thinking in a thinking man's shooter!? What will they think of next!

[PEEFsmash]

Fabe, on 16 June 2013 - 01:34 PM, said:

Ah I see you're worried about some "noob" getting luck and taking you out with a lucky shot....

Sounds to me you just don't want something that adversely affects you in the game so you're crying for it to get nerfed.

The only mech I really play is the Jenner-F (laser only with no ammo). But nice bit of folk theory.

The reason I was posting this was because I was getting kills I didn't deserve because of ammo explosions, and feeling empathetic with those who carry ammo.

Edited by PEEFsmash, 16 June 2013 - 01:47 PM.

[shabowie]

PEEFsmash, on 16 June 2013 - 01:46 PM, said:

The only mech I really play is the Jenner-F (laser only with no ammo). But nice bit of folk theory.

The reason I was posting this was because I was getting kills I didn't deserve because of ammo explosions, and feeling empathetic with those who carry ammo.

It should be happening way more often, and discouraging people from putting ammo in legs.

[Levi Porphyrogenitus]

CASE prevents damage from moving from the mounted location inward. IS CASE is LT/RT only, and prevents transfer to the CT. cCASE can be in the arms IIRC, and if so would prevent RA-RT transfers (moot point right now since there is no cTech).

As for damage transfer, in MWO the mechanic is 50% of remaining damage transfers. So if a leg takes 200 damage from a ton f SSRMs going up, then it first damages the LL. If the leg has 15 points of internal structure left, damage drops to 185. This then moves to the LT, where it is divided in half (dunno if rounded up or down; I'll assume down). This 92 damage is applied to the LT internal structure. Say that is 40. The remaining damage transfers to the CT where it is again cut in half, for a total of 26 damage. This is applied to the CT internal structure.

CASE would stop the transfer after the LT blows up.

In short, if you want to get huge damage numbers, aim low at ballistic or missile boats since most stack ammo in the legs and a lot of them strip armor to make room for moar dakka.

[aniviron]

Sure, maybe a whole glut of ammo blowing up should be catastrophic, but this is not real life. Peef's suggestion is a good one; the devs have explictly stated that they value lower amounts of randomness, which increases skill because the results of an action are knowable instead of random, meaning going for ammo is a viable tactic because you know you will do some damage. This also means that you suddenly have a reason to use CASE with under 5 tons of ammo!

[Matthew Ace]

I actually think ammo explosions shoul be happening like 100% of the time TBH. And because there's generally more ammo per ton, ammo explosions will be even more devastating (when it happens), I would say I'm in agreement with the OP - but 2 ton of exploding unused ammo should still kill anything.

Edited by Matthew Ace, 16 June 2013 - 06:11 PM.

[PEEFsmash]

Matthew Ace, on 16 June 2013 - 06:10 PM, said:

I actually think ammo explosions shoul be happening like 100% of the time TBH. And because there's generally more ammo per ton, ammo explosions will be even more devastating (when it happens), I would say I'm in agreement with the OP - but 2 ton of exploding unused ammo should still kill anything.

Saying that exploding ammo should kill anything, and ammo should explode every time is the most hardcore buff to PPC+Gauss I can imagine!

[DocBach]

[Buzzkillin]

PEEFsmash, on 16 June 2013 - 01:28 PM, said:

Nerfing ammo explosions would make the gameplay more consistent and less random. Currently, "easy mode" is shooting someone in the leg and getting a random super critical every once in awhile. Matches shouldn't be determined in that way.

As "easy mode" as you say, I rarely see anyone going for the legs specifically for ammo explosions. I see ammo a risk and reward if you don't protect ammo with case, especially if you are using a XL. You free up space for the risk of explosion that can potentially destroy you.

[SweetWarmIce]

Ammo explosions should be 100% chance instead of 10%. The initial 45% chance to crit is already enough of a buffer.

[80sGlamRockSensation David Bowie]

TBH, what this game needs is if X threshold of ammo is detonated, the mech should go up in a large fireball that damages nearby mechs.

[One Medic Army]

Sort of agree, if you want to have them have less impact, cutting the chance to 10% isn't the way to go.
In closed beta ammo exploded 100% of the time, and it'd explode if your heat got too high as well. Mechs still didn't die all that much to ammo explosions.

Right now it's just a 10% chance for a blown leg to award you a kill, one more reason to always aim for the legs.

[Matthew Ace]

PEEFsmash, on 16 June 2013 - 06:19 PM, said:

Saying that exploding ammo should kill anything, and ammo should explode every time is the most hardcore buff to PPC+Gauss I can imagine!

If you're trying to insinuate something, I assure you I'm not running anything with PPCs and Gauss right now. If anything, my main Jager is a quirky build using 1xAC10, 1xUAC5, 1xAC2 and 1xML, and I've had decent results.

Edited by Matthew Ace, 16 June 2013 - 08:05 PM.

[Johnny Reb]

I think ammo explosion should be bad however, I would like the option for case to mitigate this in more than the torsos!

[p00k]

increasing the chance to explode but decreasing the explosion damage simply makes ballistics and missiles even weaker, not the other way around. yes it makes the game more predictable, but it discourages use of things that are ammo dependent. i'd rather take no internal damage 90% of the time, and die the unlucky 10, than essentially lose that component 50% of the time. each ac20 ammo for example would be a 50% chance of 28 damage, or a 100% chance of 14 damage. it's like having a bunch of gauss rifles (admittedly with more item hp, but with everyone packing ppcs any crit will knock out whatever it crits on). say goodbye to brawling

generally i'm in favor of removing randomness from the game as much as possible, but with the current crit system (which is more randomness), short of revamping said crit system, i'd rather keep the status quo or even decrease the explosion chance

[FunkyFritter]

Ammo explosions don't make any sense in the context of the game as it stands now. There's no way to tell where your opponent is storing ammo during a match, as long as that remains true targeting ammo will never present interesting tactical opportunities. Randomly generated events like a mech turning into a fireball can be fun in some games, but it really sticks out when every other design decision is geared towards minimizing the impact chance has.

If they're going to start messing with ammo explosions I hope they do it right. Either scrap the whole system or rework it so it's relevant on the battlefield and not just in the mechlab.