50 replies to this topic

[Bad Andy]

No LRM boating was at an all time high when it was headshotting people for 1500+ damage a match. Now it isn't even close.

TAG (lol@ complaining about narc) scouts lighting you up for lrm boats? Shoot their legs off. Blowing the legs off lights is not at an all time high but it is not that hard currently. Otherwise yes, I agree, teamwork is powerful.

Edited by Bad Andy, 16 June 2013 - 08:49 PM.

[Asmosis]

LRM's still arent enough of a threat to warrant putting AMS on my mechs, unless i have tonnage going to waste (which is only A1 ssrm and 4X).

If i see a team with 4-5 lrm heavy boats my first thoughts are "well thank god they're not highlanders" and proceed to approach with cover and/or ECM. If you see a tag laser floating about, dont ignore it. its a billboard saying "point your PPC's here ->"

Also if you see a teammate with a tag icon, tell him incase he doesnt know hes being tagged.

*edit*

its also worthwhile pointing out that most people who think they are getting killed by lrms, really arent. lrms might have gotten the last hit, but while you were distracted by the "WARNING INCOMING MISSILE" blurting out, and during the ~10 seconds of lrms impacting on your torso, you also took 40-80 points of PPC damage directly to your CT, which stripped away all your armor allowing the lrms to finish you off, which is what they do well.

people get incredibly distracted by incoming lrm damage, enough that you can normally unload gauss/PPC barrages into them and they dont notice because their entire paper doll is flashing due to lrm explosions.

Edited by Asmosis, 16 June 2013 - 09:35 PM.

[Das Wudone]

i think the main issue is that lrms still do most of their damage to the CT which shouldnt be. before tweaking the damage the devs shouldve focused 1st on tweaking the bugged concentrated damage that all missiles have.

im not in any way contradicting ur point here but any weapon boated in large amts will really do a lot of damage. take the small laser swayback for example. in cbt those things dominated the field even with the low alpha damage it had. however even with that low alpha damage it had really low weapon cd and heat (even without DHS). the same applied to streaks, normal srms, med laser boaters (awesomes), med pulse boaters, large lasers, everything.

[B0oN]

Das Wudone, on 16 June 2013 - 10:55 PM, said:

i think the main issue is that lrms still do most of their damage to the CT which shouldnt be. before tweaking the damage the devs shouldve focused 1st on tweaking the bugged concentrated damage that all missiles have.

PGI stated somewhere they were looking into SSRM´s/LRM´s CT homing capabilities, but there still no good reason to leave AMS completely out of one´s mechs.
Ever seen a lance AMS equipped mechs marching forcefully straight into enemy LRM boats ?
Hilarious !

[Uncleclint]

When LRM damage was at 0.9 many people complained about them not doing enough damage.
Now LRM damage is at 1.1 and people complain about them doing too much damage.

I knew the solution to this problem, unfortunately i forgot - maybe someone else can do the math?

*alternatively, maybe a little more missile scattering across the target mech would do the job as well.

Edited by HAS UncleClint, 17 June 2013 - 02:37 AM.

[Leafia Barrett]

They can't hit what they can't catch. It is possible to simply outrun/outmaneuver them. If you know which direction they're coming from, simply move perpendicular to that. As long as you move at a decent speed, you should dodge them. Of course, I play lights exclusively, so take that "decent speed" bit with a grain of salt...

[Karenai]

People use LRMs because they are fed up with PPCs. Not because they are good. It is getting so boring with those high alpha PPC builds.

[John MatriX82]

Imho lrms are at a rather good balance point atm. As usual it's boaters that throw it off away, with things like 5xLRM15 builds and so on.

Maximum number of lrms should be limited to the available tubes. This way only few mechs could bring 50 LRMs (which would be the limit) like STK 3H, HGN 733, then CTPL-C4 with 40 and the rest to 30 (awesomes, trebs, jm6-a) and so on. This would help keeping things balanced with the actual numbers/values.

[Nebelfeuer]

John MatriX82, on 17 June 2013 - 02:52 AM, said:

Maximum number of lrms should be limited to the available tubes. This way only few mechs could bring 50 LRMs (which would be the limit) like STK 3H, HGN 733, then CTPL-C4 with 40 and the rest to 30 (awesomes, trebs, jm6-a) and so on. This would help keeping things balanced with the actual numbers/values.

I would say yes - unfortunately that could create some sort of balance which is obviously against gameregulations.
It is also an obvious and logical solution so it´s not complicated enough to cause gamebreaking playerbehaviour. How are the devs supposed to uphold beta status with this way of straight thinking?

Edited by Nebelfeuer, 17 June 2013 - 04:32 AM.

[ShaggyMoose]

Apart from the disturbing "mortar" trajectory, I am currently satisfied with the balance between LRM and counter LRM. As noted elsewhere in the thread, hope they focus on fixing SRM and SSRM now...

[CGB Behemoth]

WOW! LRM-boating is alive? Please, please! Please show me that LRM-boaters playing together. WOOOOW! They even have lights with TAG's. Where are they? Why i don't see them playing 50-60 matches at evening? Why i'm always lone with my STK-5M?
Or maybe you call LRM-boats those strange HGN's & AS7's with one or two LRM slots? If so - you just don't know what LRM-boat is!

[StalaggtIKE]

Rad Hanzo, on 17 June 2013 - 02:26 AM, said:

Ever seen a lance AMS equipped mechs marching forcefully straight into enemy LRM boats ?
Hilarious !

I've generally always carried AMS on my builds. I heard that AMS got buffed last patch and thought, meh. Last week I got to see just how much it was buffed. We were battling a team of PPC (not ERPPC) and LRM heavy mechs. We tried to counter snipe but would get singled out, so we tried closing in. Of course the missiles came from their 2-3 missile boats. We were bogged down in a valley with incoming missiles warning blaring in our ears. Then one of my lance mates looked up and noticed that none of the missiles were touching the ground. Our combined AMS were completely nullifying over 40 missiles! We pushed forward, immune to the missiles as if under a missile shield. We marched and focused fired on their closest PPC boat. Of course up close he was just as pathetic as his missile boating buddies. It was a great game and a testament of how useful grouped AMS has become.

[Snowcrow]

Actually, as a bunch of people have pointed out. Just use ams and don't run into the open.
Lrms are in a good place now.

[Nightcrept]

Lrms might be in a good place but only when weighed in relation to salvos of 50-60 lrms.
And only if your enemies don't like using the counter measures like ams, ecm etc.

And lets not forget that you and your team has to like very poor dmg potential and massive drawbacks.

Perhaps when splash dmg is reintroduced the added dmg in addition to the new flight speed and path will make them a danger on the battlefield.

Otherwise meh free food.

[Pando]

LRMs are only truely effective at low elo brackets where players skills are at an all time low. It looks like this

Skill presense = low
LRM presence = high
PPC presence = low

Skill presence = medium
LRM presence = medium
PPC presence = medium

Skill presence = high
LRM prescense = low
PPC presence = high

Edited by Pando, 17 June 2013 - 10:58 AM.

[Postumus]

Pando, on 17 June 2013 - 10:50 AM, said:

LRMs are only truely effective at low elo brackets where players skills are at an all time low. It looks like this

Unfortunately Pando nailed it. Ultimately, LRMs are slow, don't all hit even when they can, and do distributed damage. PPCs/Ballistics are fast, do all of their damage when they hit, and do all of it in one spot. They should just introduce a hard limit on LRM boating, and then make them into a competitive weapon. Double the speed, up the damage a little, w/e, as long as you can't fit more than 40 or 50 per mech.

[Pando]

Postumus, on 17 June 2013 - 12:08 PM, said:

Unfortunately Pando nailed it. Ultimately, LRMs are slow, don't all hit even when they can, and do distributed damage. PPCs/Ballistics are fast, do all of their damage when they hit, and do all of it in one spot. They should just introduce a hard limit on LRM boating, and then make them into a competitive weapon. Double the speed, up the damage a little, w/e, as long as you can't fit more than 40 or 50 per mech.

More speed, yes. I would not do anything to limiting freedom of builds...however, I would increase the ARC if it was shared.

If a jenner has to run behind a huge rock formation where the atlas is hiding, risking his/her own life to get some damage on the target....there should be a reward for that. The LRMS should have an incredibly high arc to help that little jenner kill that atlas. The LRMs should only have that ARC from light/medium pilots. This IMO would be a huge advantage to piloting a light or medium (more so the medium). I will say 9/10 the jenner will still die a horrible death. But the sacrifice won't be in vein.

Edited by Pando, 17 June 2013 - 12:17 PM.

[Drunk Canuck]

Postumus, on 16 June 2013 - 01:45 PM, said:

Sorry, but you obviously weren't around for LRMageddons 1 and 2. All this is is people realizing that LRMs have been tweaked slightly back into usefullness. During PPCwarrior online, noone used LRMs. Now some people use them, just like any other weapon. Thank god, now fix SRMs. Only having one or two viable, competitive weapons is boring as hell.

Most people are using PPC's over ER Large Lasers because they are doing more damage, even though there have been fixes to try and stop PPC boating, it still happens and it irks me that someone can headshot you from across the map and kill you instantly with 6 PPC's because their damage is so high. LRM's really aren't much different, only you either need to TAG targets yourself or have a scout do it for you, there is no skill in cheese loadouts that gib players. I can core an Atlas with full armor easily in 3 or 4 salvos of 4x LRM 15's, maybe even kill one if he is taking damage from team mates. And there is no penalty for playing that way, I sit there and laugh because I crank out 600+ damage a match and generally get at least 3 kills and 5 kill assists in a match.

[Pando]

Drunk Canuck, on 17 June 2013 - 01:47 PM, said:

Most people are using PPC's over ER Large Lasers because they are doing more damage, even though there have been fixes to try and stop PPC boating, it still happens and it irks me that someone can headshot you from across the map and kill you instantly with 6 PPC's because their damage is so high. LRM's really aren't much different, only you either need to TAG targets yourself or have a scout do it for you, there is no skill in cheese loadouts that gib players. I can core an Atlas with full armor easily in 3 or 4 salvos of 4x LRM 15's, maybe even kill one if he is taking damage from team mates. And there is no penalty for playing that way, I sit there and laugh because I crank out 600+ damage a match and generally get at least 3 kills and 5 kill assists in a match.

You don't see 6 ppc stalkers included on the drop deck's of any top tier competitive team and for good reason. Staple builds might include but might not be limited to;

Atlas RS 4PPC 1Gauss
Misery 3ER 1Gauss
Highlander 732 3PPC 1Gauss
Cataphract 3D 3erppc
Cataphract 3D 2erppc 1 gauss
Jagermech firebrand 2 erppc 1 gauss

just to name a few....

[Pando]

So, just for LOL's sake....If i were home I would have to upload a video clip just for this thread.

I'm running an XL280 on a CPLT-C1 (F). I've got 2xLRM15's 3 medium lasers and a tag. 1080 LRM ammo. Adv target decay, adv sensor range and adv seismic sensor. 4 jumpjets and the chassis is mastered.

5 games with a brand new account to ELO drop me into "higher than trial mech, but still low" ELO brackets.

One game in specific, 4 atlas DDC group on the other team, stand out in the wide open space of http://mwomercs.com/...urmaline-desert - So, I poptart LERM'd them for like 2 minutes killing 3 of the atlas who were returning fire...standing still....without AMS....with AC/20s at like 800-900 meters. I was called so many names. The Atlas pilots called me cheesy, said i was crutching and called me a baddie among other things. These are the people coming onto forums saying LRM's are overpowered. This is what I find most humerus. I killed 6 enemy players that game even kiting some of the mediums and heavies out into the open. I picked the engagements carefully and lured them into the open areas running 74 kph I was able to out-run most of my opponents and just reek havok at 280-180 meters with my 3 medium lasers and 2 lrm 15 racks