60 replies to this topic

[Valore]

The only reason why its even possibly vaguely described as P2W is because that stupid seismic sensor is OP atm. Its being fixed, so that's that.

Also, let's look at this from another perspective.

If a completely new player comes in, and throws $50 into the game to get MC, does he immediately become better than another new player who joins at the same time?

He still has to play and grind up the XP, the only difference is how long he takes.

So no, its not P2W.

[Mechteric]

I think it should maybe just be increased to 10% XP -> GXP.

[Scromboid]

The P2W is another topic completely.

I get the idea that you can rack up XP in a mech then convert it 1:1 with MC to general for $$ quickly, but there are other factors stopping someone from being 'better'.

That said, with a Hero 'Mech, Premium time and GXP conversion, someone can be in a much better machine (Ilya) quicker than someone else, with full modules and more c-bills per match thereby making it easier to win sheerly due to the better equipment. Think of the clans.

You take Player A with no premium, MC or anything and Player B with all of it and pit them against each other over 500 matches with the same skill.... Player B has a clear advantage from the get-go. P2W? I guess it depends on your definition... seems to me a pretty thin line...

Back to the topic, though. Do you all believe that a bump from 5% to 7.5% would break the game? I still think that over 700 drops for a single module is a little slow, especially considering how many modules there are out there now.

Consider this. To get all the modules right now, at a mean XP per match of 500, you would need to play 5,700 matches. (142,500/(500*.05))

Bump that XP to 7.5% and you get 3800 matches (142,500/(500*.075) or even 2850 matches (142,500/(500*.10))

Edited by Scromboid, 17 June 2013 - 07:19 AM.

[Valore]

Scromboid, on 17 June 2013 - 07:15 AM, said:

Back to the topic, though. Do you all believe that a bump from 5% to 7.5% would break the game? I still think that over 700 drops for a single module is a little slow, especially considering how many modules there are out there now.

But its meant to be painfully slow. That's how you get people to cough up money.

Current seismic aside, not having the modules does not affect your gameplay enough to make it a really serious problem.

[Mudhutwarrior]

Scromboid, on 17 June 2013 - 07:15 AM, said:

Consider this. To get all the modules right now, at a mean XP per match of 500, you would need to play 5,700 matches.
(142,500/(500*.05))

Good point, I am about 42k short I figure. Still think the xp weekends are the bomb.

[Scromboid]

Valore, on 17 June 2013 - 07:18 AM, said:

But its meant to be painfully slow. That's how you get people to cough up money.

Current seismic aside, not having the modules does not affect your gameplay enough to make it a really serious problem.

I do not disagree.

Is painful the right thing for the community, however?

[Valore]

Scromboid, on 17 June 2013 - 07:21 AM, said:

I do not disagree.

Is painful the right thing for the community, however?

I think its fine.

If content that is important, buying new mechs/weapons etc, was too painful, then yes, maybe it would be a bad thing.

But players who have stayed long enough to care about having the right modules are likely hooked enough into the game that they're not going to leave anyway. So what's the incentive for changing things and making it easier?

No player who has played enough to get a few mechs he likes to pilot is going to look at things, and go 'This is crap, all these people with modules are beating me, I'm quitting.'

[BigMekkUrDakka]

gxp? pff usually then i remember about those i already have enough for module and not enough cbills to buy it
so its rates fine by me, the only module that bears any REAL advantage its target decay for lrm boats and its quite fast to get

[BlacKcuD]

A slight increase (to say 7-8%) wouldn´t hurt. It is a MC sink so the developers will probably not do too much about it. On the other hand it is really hard to unlock multiple modules for casual gamers.

[Corvus Antaka]

just convert xp to gxp during a sale. much more efficient.

[Pando]

Pater Mors, on 16 June 2013 - 01:03 PM, said:

No I don't agree. It's a f2p game and spending money is how you skip that grind. Increasing it directly decreases revenue for PGI.

Yes.

[Skoaljaw]

Pater Mors, on 16 June 2013 - 01:03 PM, said:

No I don't agree. It's a f2p game and spending money is how you skip that grind. Increasing it directly decreases revenue for PGI.

Agreed... they gotta get paid so they continue making this game epic.

[Levi Porphyrogenitus]

5% seems just fine for a base GXP earning rate. Assuming a relatively median 500 XP average per match (I'm guessing that's a reasonable number), at 5% you earn 25 GXP per match. That's slow, but not untenable by any means.

My average is a little over 700 XP per match, and my total is right around 1.8 million. That means I've done around 2600 matches (less, but it's close enough for rough estimation). It also means that during that time I've earned 90,000 GXP, which is not bad. I've also converted a goodly bit during a couple of the sales, and used that to splurge on some module unlocks that I haven't really needed and to save up a hefty balance. I've been playing since a little before the Founders' early access in CB, though only the stuff after OB counts for stat tracking (I'm assuming that the general stats were tracked from the last reset, unlike the specialized stats that were only tracked from when the stat page got revamped).

Taking those numbers into consideration, a 500 XP player would have earned 1.3 million mech XP and 65k GXP. That's enough for 13 steps of 5k XP each (the base module pricing is 5k, 10k, and 15k, with upgraded modules falling generally around 7.5k). That is a potential 4 15k module unlocks, 13 5k module unlocks, or any number of combinations that fall in between. It seems like an okay rate of GXP earning.

That said, I still think that it might well be a good idea for PGI to buff the Master unlock. Let it keep the extra module slot (a huge boost on certain mechs, especially Stalkers), but give it double the GXP earn rate when driving a Mastered mech (from 5% to 10%). Keep the lower rate for when you're more concerned with unlocking efficiencies, and boost the rate when Modules become the main goal of further XP generation. Since it'd apply only to Mastered mechs it would give people more of a reason to keep driving mechs that they've otherwise finished progressing with.

[Pater Mors]

Lord of All, on 17 June 2013 - 05:30 AM, said:

I don't? If I start the game the same time as you and buy all the modules while you grind it then I just paid for a massive advantage which is the definition of PTW. So *******.

No it's not. The definition of P2W is paying for a CLEAR ADVANTAGE that benefits me over free players REGARDLESS of SKILL.

So what you're essentially saying is that if I fight you in my Mastered Highlander, I am DEFINITELY going to beat you because I spent money converting my xp to Master it, and you didn't. Ridiculous... unless you're just that bad.

Scromboid, on 17 June 2013 - 07:15 AM, said:

The P2W is another topic completely.

I get the idea that you can rack up XP in a mech then convert it 1:1 with MC to general for $$ quickly, but there are other factors stopping someone from being 'better'.

That said, with a Hero 'Mech, Premium time and GXP conversion, someone can be in a much better machine (Ilya) quicker than someone else, with full modules and more c-bills per match thereby making it easier to win sheerly due to the better equipment. Think of the clans.

You take Player A with no premium, MC or anything and Player B with all of it and pit them against each other over 500 matches with the same skill.... Player B has a clear advantage from the get-go. P2W? I guess it depends on your definition... seems to me a pretty thin line...

Back to the topic, though. Do you all believe that a bump from 5% to 7.5% would break the game? I still think that over 700 drops for a single module is a little slow, especially considering how many modules there are out there now.

Consider this. To get all the modules right now, at a mean XP per match of 500, you would need to play 5,700 matches. (142,500/(500*.05))

Bump that XP to 7.5% and you get 3800 matches (142,500/(500*.075) or even 2850 matches (142,500/(500*.10))

Player B has no advantage that Player A cannot also get without spending money, therefore it's not P2W (aside from Ilya, but the 'advantage' of a hero mech is highly debateable).

It's called Pay-To-Skip-The-Grind and it is the base model of a free-to-play business.

Edited by Pater Mors, 17 June 2013 - 12:26 PM.

[Neolisk]

It would be an interesting statistics to compare people in this thread who voted to leave GXP rate as is VS who wanted to increase it. Find a correlation between number of hours played and this decision. I am mostly sure experienced MWO players voted to leave everything as is. Why? Because they played those 500+ hours and they don't want somebody to get same twice as easy. This is an expected decision, basics of psychology.

New players, on the other hand, want to have GXP rate increased, because they don't get as much fun otherwise.

Risk - if you don't increase GXP rate or otherwise eliminate silly grind mechanics, new playerbase will decrease, leaving only the veterans playing against each other. No fresh streams coming into a lake - the life dies in it.

Edited by Neolisk, 17 June 2013 - 12:55 PM.

[Pater Mors]

Neolisk, on 17 June 2013 - 12:53 PM, said:

It would be an interesting statistics to compare people in this thread who voted to leave GXP rate as is VS who wanted to increase it. Find a correlation between number of hours played and this decision. I am mostly sure experienced MWO players voted to leave everything as is. Why? Because they played those 500+ hours and they don't want somebody to get same twice as easy. This is an expected decision, basics of psychology.

New players, on the other hand, want to have GXP rate increased, because they don't get as much fun otherwise.

Risk - if you don't increase GXP rate or otherwise eliminate silly grind mechanics, new playerbase will decrease, leaving only the veterans playing against each other. No fresh streams coming into a lake - the life dies in it.

I don't think so. Perhaps that's some old dogs motivation. I've spent money converting GXP but that's not the reason that I don't support this idea.

I am sick of seeing threads which try to impinge on PGI's business model simply so that specific player can have an easier time. No one is really thinking of the poor new player. They're thinking 'oh man, I've been grinding for weeks and it's taking too long. I don't want to spend real money so I guess I'll just go on the forums instead.' and then they use the new player experience to justify their position.

It's what you get when you play a free-to-play game. Expect the grind to be long if you don't want to splash some cash.

[Stoicblitzer]

my cheap side says yes.

[Oppresor]

GXP represents the holy grail for those of us who don't buy MC. I accept that I will have to work for it if I want it so am happy with the current rate.

[Levi Porphyrogenitus]

Neolisk, on 17 June 2013 - 12:53 PM, said:

It would be an interesting statistics to compare people in this thread who voted to leave GXP rate as is VS who wanted to increase it. Find a correlation between number of hours played and this decision. I am mostly sure experienced MWO players voted to leave everything as is. Why? Because they played those 500+ hours and they don't want somebody to get same twice as easy. This is an expected decision, basics of psychology.

New players, on the other hand, want to have GXP rate increased, because they don't get as much fun otherwise.

Risk - if you don't increase GXP rate or otherwise eliminate silly grind mechanics, new playerbase will decrease, leaving only the veterans playing against each other. No fresh streams coming into a lake - the life dies in it.

I've earned 1.8 million mech XP (and some 90k GXP) and converted a bunch as well, and I am in favor of having Master status double GXP earned when piloting that mech.

[Petroshka]

i for one converted CTF-IM xp (about 88,000) to GXP during a 50% MC sale and bought every single (useful) pilot module in the game