22 replies to this topic

[RedDragon]

So, without long talk:

Why not make a dedicated PPC-slot?

I guess there wouldn't be any substantial downsides to this (except that you can't boat them anymore, if you regard this as a downside ). But there would be many advantages, e.g. no more boating, the Awesome would be awesome again (only mech that can fit 3 of them (for now)), greater variety in weapons and variants (K2 becomes viable again as a PPC carrier) and there wouldn't even be the need to overhaul the complete slot system.
Lore-wise it's also more logical to have dedicated PPC-slots than having an "energy slot" where you can put in either a small laser or a PPC... after all the only thing the PPC has in common with lasers is that it uses energy - in this regard a Gauss rifle would also be an energy weapon.

Maybe there could also be a dedicated Gauss slot. I don't think the Gauss has a boating problem right now, so it wouldn't be that high a priority, but we could discuss the merits of it, while we are at it.

[Livewyr]

Tiny Solution: PPC Boating problem.
Massive Problem Created: Precedence.

[Zerberus]

I don`t like the idea, I`ll explain why.

What happens when someone doesn`t even want to use a PPC or gauss but would like to not be forced to run 7-14 tons underweight, but now can`t mount another weapon there? Force them to mount a PPC or gauss just to fill tonnage, even though they don`t even want to snipe?

Like for example a Panther or a Cicada?

How is the Awesome supposed to work in the mechbay if it can only mount 3ppcs and nothing else in tis "ppc slots"?

Or a brawler atlas is forced to take a gauss instead of an AC/20, because "it`s a gauss slot", makinmg the mech essentially useless for true brawling.

Or is the idea to force people to use more canon loadouts and thereby "nerf" the mechbay? If so, then make everythign a dedicated slot. No ac2s in MG mounts, no lasers in Flamer mounts, no large lasers in medium laser slots, etc etc.... in which case we can just delete the mechbay completely.

Edited by Zerberus, 17 June 2013 - 06:56 AM.

[Yanlowen Cage]

Logic! Where is the logic? Liar!

[RedDragon]

Zerberus, on 17 June 2013 - 06:55 AM, said:

I don`t like the idea, I`ll explain why.

What happens when someone doesn`t even want to use a PPC or gauss but would like to not be forced to run 7-14 tons underweight, but now can`t mount another weapon there? Force them to mount a PPC or gauss just to fill tonnage, even though they don`t even want to snipe?

Like for example a Panther or a Cicada?

How is the Awesome supposed to work in the mechbay if it can only mount 3ppcs and nothing else in tis "ppc slots"?

Or a brawler atlas is forced to take a gauss instead of an AC/20, because "it`s a gauss slot", makinmg the mech essentially useless for true brawling.

Or is the idea to force people to use more canon loadouts and thereby "nerf" the mechbay? If so, then make everythign a dedicated slot. No ac2s in MG mounts, no lasers in Flamer mounts, no large lasers in medium laser slots, etc etc.... in which case we can just delete the mechbay completely.

Well, good point. But I don't see a problem with this - they could make the PPC slot downward compatible, so you can fit energy weapons in there but not vice versa.
Second: Would it really be a bad idea to have specialized mechs and variants? Even now with the "few" mechs we already have, variants get obsolete because you can outfit different variants in the same ways. So why would one choose an Awesome over a Stalker when he gets the same weapons in both of them? Or to turn this around: Why would you want to play an Awesome if you don't want to field 3 PPCs? There are even now variants that can carry everything an Awesome can field and be better at it. imagine when we have 20+ chassis more than now. It only gets worse. The only thing in which they differ will be the quirks, which don't really make a big difference.

[Mechteric]

PPC boats are supposed to exist, e.g. Masakari and Awesome.


Heat and the threat of what happens when you constantly push that heat level is supposed to be their balancing factor. Once this is addressed in game, hopefully by taking damage even when your mech auto shuts down would be a great means for countering this while not having to change the mechlab meta.

[Zerberus]

RedDragon, on 17 June 2013 - 07:04 AM, said:

Well, good point. But I don't see a problem with this - they could make the PPC slot downward compatible, so you can fit energy weapons in there but not vice versa.

Admittedly, the thought crossed my mind, but I intentionally left it out. Nice catch.

Quote

Second: Would it really be a bad idea to have specialized mechs and variants? Even now with the "few" mechs we already have, variants get obsolete because you can outfit different variants in the same ways. So why would one choose an Awesome over a Stalker when he gets the same weapons in both of them? Or to turn this around: Why would you want to play an Awesome if you don't want to field 3 PPCs? There are even now variants that can carry everything an Awesome can field and be better at it. imagine when we have 20+ chassis more than now. It only gets worse. The only thing in which they differ will be the quirks, which don't really make a big difference.

Well, we already have over 70 mechs when one considers all variants, so i`m not sure "few" is the right term... but that`s semantics, who cares.

But the somewhat ironic thing is that it actuially limits people in building a mech to THEIR specialty by forcing them to take certain variants, possibly even chassis they just don`t enjoy playing. Also, not everybody is a min-maxer, some people just use the mechs they think are cool. For example my lights are spiders and commandos, because I don`t like chickenwalkers (exceptions being Catapult, Timber-+Dire wolf). Why should someone like me that prefers balanced builds be forced to take say a Raven or Jenner (or Awesome, uagh) just because I want to use one or 2 of weapon X, even though it has more than enough room on the chassis I already own?

I understand teh general idea, I just don`t think it`s necessarily a good one *prost*

Edited by Zerberus, 17 June 2013 - 07:32 AM.

[keith]

or could the problem be most of the ppc boat u encounter are assault mechs? maybe make 1 assault mech slot per lance, better solution? crazy idea. most of the smaller mechs can not handle the constant fire of ppc as well as the assault mechs. giving u time to close the distance, change location.

[Ningyo]

There are two what I can only call broken game mechanics that are causing the PPC problems.

Instant convergence
No heat penalties

Battletech had neither of these problems so they were while good not absurd.
MWO has both of these, and gave them reduced heat to go on top of it all, of course they are too powerful.

[johnyboy420]

thats why they need too make 2 types of points, a hard point and a soft point.

weps that can only go in a hard point:AC20, gauss, PPC's LRM 15's & 20's

all other weps are soft and a soft wep can go in a hard point if wanted

[AnnoyingCat]

horrible idea

[johnyboy420]

annoying cat your input will always be useless, my bro that has played every mechwarrior but this one and even he knows that PGI is reta rded for even alowing you too mount more then 3ppc's it's funny that even he knows thats so imba, your fail useless mech 4 meta kiddys will be the death of this game iv given up on PGI there nothing but trash i saw this coming 1'st round of closed Beta but you know it's fine L2P right?

you can only go full re ta rd so long bro before everyone had it with a game

so its been like 7 months of **** PVP meta but this games doing better then ever **** and let the real people talk that know whats making this game utter trash

Edited by johnyboy420, 17 June 2013 - 11:37 AM.

[EyeOne]

Why don't we just throw the mechlab out and use the stock designs? That's basically what your plan does.

[johnyboy420]

EyeOne, on 17 June 2013 - 11:34 AM, said:

Why don't we just throw the mechlab out and use the stock designs? That's basically what your plan does.

cry more eye
cus all i just heard waz im fail dont take away what i need too just too crutch a match?

Edited by johnyboy420, 17 June 2013 - 11:53 AM.

[MechWarrior849305]

Weapon harponts' limits. I have seen this sug somewhere... Somewhere here on teh forums... Ummm, somewhere. I can't find those 50+ threads

The biggest issue with PPCs/AC20/Gauss/whatever to begin with - triple fire rate. What means to miss PPC once in 4 secs? Nothing. And if it was 10 secs? It's more, than 150 meters upfront assault with assaul mech speed. (assuming 60kmph).
Second - heatcap. It's too high for drastically cooled weapon. High heat this weapon was given not for a joke.

[soarra]

the fact that all our mechs are pretty much omni mechs is a problem. Make Sm- energy slot, Med- energy slot Large energy slot
and certain weapon can only fit in each type of slot. same with ballistic

[MustrumRidcully]

Lowering customization means a bad design cannot be improved anymore and there is no reason to take it. It can already be hard enough to make some mechs work in this game, partially due to the lack of customization options, partially due to other factors (lightest in its weight class, terrible hit boxes and so on.).

A customization limitation only has a small chance of working if the devs never introduce mechs in this game that allowed the type of stuff we were trying to ban. We can never get the King Crab if Dual AC/20s are forever deemed OP. We can never get Omnimech technology. (Maybe we will get Clan Mechs treated like IS mechs), and we have to avoid a lot of mechs just to avoid ever getting to this point.

What if the devs sell us a new mech for expensive MC and then have to tell everyone "Oh, sorry, this hard point configuration is too god. We have to pull this mech and change one of the defining characteristics a few of you bought it for.

[Braggart]

move PPCs to ballistic hardpoint.

We just pretend that the size of it requires using one of those hardpoints instead.

Bam, balance fixed.

[Vodrin Thales]

RedDragon, on 17 June 2013 - 06:47 AM, said:

So, without long talk:

Why not make a dedicated PPC-slot?

I guess there wouldn't be any substantial downsides to this (except that you can't boat them anymore, if you regard this as a downside ). But there would be many advantages, e.g. no more boating, the Awesome would be awesome again (only mech that can fit 3 of them (for now)), greater variety in weapons and variants (K2 becomes viable again as a PPC carrier) and there wouldn't even be the need to overhaul the complete slot system.
Lore-wise it's also more logical to have dedicated PPC-slots than having an "energy slot" where you can put in either a small laser or a PPC... after all the only thing the PPC has in common with lasers is that it uses energy - in this regard a Gauss rifle would also be an energy weapon.

Maybe there could also be a dedicated Gauss slot. I don't think the Gauss has a boating problem right now, so it wouldn't be that high a priority, but we could discuss the merits of it, while we are at it.

Or why not make other weapons as desirable as PPC's so that each weapon possible for a given hardpoint has definite advantages and disadvantages thus making choice of weapon meaningful and debatable. The main problem right now is that PPC's are better than the alternatives in most cases. That needs to change to solve the problem.

Better weapon balance is the proper solution, not limiting mech build choices.

[Braggart]

Vodrin Thales, on 17 June 2013 - 12:19 PM, said:

Or why not make other weapons as desirable as PPC's so that each weapon possible for a given hardpoint has definite advantages and disadvantages thus making choice of weapon meaningful and debatable. The main problem right now is that PPC's are better than the alternatives in most cases. That needs to change to solve the problem.

Better weapon balance is the proper solution, not limiting mech build choices.

And the reason behind that is that PGI half fixed the problem. They realized that Laser boats have always been a problem, so they turned them into burst duration, which solved that side of the pin point alpha, they totally ignored the other weapons that would do the same. ACs should be short duration multiple round bursts, and PPCs could have been changed to somewhat direct damage/AOE damage A PPC hits for 5 damage, and then some AOE damage to parts around it.