252 replies to this topic

[CCC Dober]

@Snib
That would depend on how the devs account for ownership, attrition and what options the players on both sides are given to influence, prolong or end a conflict. If it's oversimplified as it is in WoT, then there will be a dominating strategy which flatout negates any advantage an attacker might hold. Territory might never change owners that way and the game will stagnate quickly.

Edited by CCC Dober, 10 June 2012 - 05:52 AM.

[War Dogz]

514yer, on 10 June 2012 - 05:34 AM, said:

It would be cool of course if it wasnt just a random matchmaker like WoT and was instead a map of the IS and you got to pick the world on which you are fighting

You sure about that since everything i seen states a Merc unit has to bid on a planet.So is it by units they will use or Cheap Cbills payout ??

Quote

Border Worlds – Are fought over via a contract bidding system by player run Mercenary Corporations. These planets change hands on a regular basis, and have no impact on historical events. Rewards for controlling a boarder world are significant and go directly to the occupying Merc Corp.

Quote

Mercenary Corporations can bid and fight for occupation rights of border worlds throughout the Inner Sphere. Merc Corps must bid on a planet’s occupation rights via a system of contracts generated by the game.

Who will pay the pilots Merc corp or the game after the battle?

[Snib]

CCC Dober, on 10 June 2012 - 05:51 AM, said:

@Snib
That would depend on how the devs account for ownership, attrition and what options the players on both sides are given to influence, prolong or end a conflict. If it's oversimplified as it is in WoT, then there will be a dominating strategy which flatout negates any advantage an attacker might hold. Territory might never change owners that way and the game will stagnate quickly.

Well, if you're good enough to never lose a battle for your territory you're entitled to hold it IMO.

But you are right, it depends on what the devs do, so let's have this discussion again once we know what's actually happening and/or can talk about it (no, I am not in beta).

War Dogz, on 10 June 2012 - 05:54 AM, said:

Who will pay the pilots Merc corp or the game after the battle?

The battle is rewarded as usual, it's just the additional benefits for planetary control that go to the corp and may or may not be paid out to the members by the leadership.

[GrizzlyViking]

PringlesPCant, on 08 June 2012 - 02:56 PM, said:

Lesson #1 - The Spoils of War Have to be Worth Fighting For
This one is pretty self-explanatory, but still deserves a reminder. Winning has to be meaningful. It has to cause the players to want to invest their time and energy into winning. For World of Tanks the primary reason for winning is to take over different provinces that provide your clan with large amounts of gold. The only other path to acquiring gold is to pay real money, so by extension winning in game means winning real money. However you also get to see your clan’s logo and color owning the territory on the map, which provides a sense of achievement and prestige. Your clan appearing on the map proves your superiority, and the better the territory the more prestige you receive.
In Eve Online the rewards of winning are more dramatic. Permanent ship destruction means that losing a ship can set you back millions of ISK, losing a more powerful ship can set you back billions of ISK and losing a fleet can cost you tens of billions of ISK. With the ability to trade real money for ISK in game easily, that means replacing a lost ship can cost hundreds of dollars, or a lost fleet thousands of dollars. An alliance losing a war could mean losses to its members in the tens of thousands of dollars. Getting into the specifics of what the rewards are for winning in Eve Online would take too much time, so let me leave that topic with the point that one major driving factor that managed to redeem Eve’s terrible UI, Lag, poor game mechanics etc was that winning brought huge rewards and losing brought huge losses and this motivated people to develop the biggest, most sophisticated, and most efficient organizations in Videogame history with Corporations and Alliances with thousands of members and power blocs with tens of thousands of members all in the same fights and the same world.

Please note that I am NOT advocating for permanent mech destruction in MWO, that works for Eve but not for MWO.

I understand what you are saying in that rewards should have value, but I do not think that “gold” is the primary motivation for winning. In your post you present “spoils” as if they are the reason that most people want to win with winning of the match as a secondary motivation, but I do not agree. There are many motivations for winning and I believe the foremost of these is to prove who’s the best, not to see who can get the most gold. Spoils are a secondary motivation for winning. Let’s say in some unusual circumstance that the losing team is awarded more gold than the winning team. Does anybody really think that getting more gold is better than winning the match; I don’t think so. The losing team that got the most gold would still be considered the loser if they did not win the match. The foremost motivation for MWO and most other games like it is winning the match to show you're the best and the spoils of war are one of the secondary motivations. Everybody plays to be the best!

Another secondary motivation is personal enjoyment and satisfaction. This can come in many forms, but in MWO I suspect many will be seeking to be the best at a specific weight class or role. Being the best or one of the best in a skill area provides personal satisfaction for most people. Those are the guys that are known by the community to play their position well enough that teams have to make plans that address the abilities of that player similar to a star player of a sports team. The good news for those of us that are here in the community is that MWO offers the "gold" rewards you mentioned as well as the competition needed for the primary reward of being the best. For this reason I believe MWO will be one of the best F2P FPSs ever created.

Edited by GrizzlyViking, 10 June 2012 - 06:39 AM.

[Thaurien]

The Op made some great ideas. I think that having goals to work for, albeit personal or house goals would make it even more fun. Provided it was content available to everyone who was interested in doing it, i would support it. Adding conflict to the world or worlds would add to the excitement to logging in every day, after the fresh mech smell leaves. I wouldn't want to be on a world that was dominated by one ruling player run guild or house. I would lean towards having a reasonable cap on members. Would you want to have to fight against the ''uber roxxors!!11 death donut'' guild or house all the time, because they have 40% of the servers members?

[Mr Peabody]

514yer, on 09 June 2012 - 10:42 PM, said:

You sound like a typical Goon propagandist.

You sound like someone who has been roughly handled by Goons, and someone who is angry over it. I suppose everybody sounds like someone.

514yer, on 09 June 2012 - 10:42 PM, said:

It IS funny how theyre the only corp in EVE the devs allow to make their members pay real money to get in AND scam them out of said real money.

Of course this is untrue, but why let facts get in the way of a good story. Had you said "pretend internet spaceship money," then you would have been much closer to the mark. Speaking of "marks," it sounds like you were on at one time... did some Goon take your pretend money and call you rude names in EvE? Is it rude if I laugh about that now?

514yer, on 09 June 2012 - 10:42 PM, said:

Is that going to be allowed here?

We'll see what is allowed and what isn't...

In the meantime, I feel bad about what happened to you. What is your EvE handle? I can arrange for you to get in if you're really upset about getting scammed. And of course there won't be any initiation fee, just a 100% refundable security deposit while we do our background check...

[Yeti Fiasco]

I'd like to point out that you don't "pay" to join goonswarm, goonswarm is for members of the Something awful community and their friends only, it's a super elite space-gentlemans club of quality posting, they have never openly recruited in game and probably never will.

Discovering goonswarm THEN joining SA to join goonswarm is the wrong way to do it, these people are called "Join for Guild" or J4G's and are looked down upon as retards who wasted :10bux: to try and join something they still can't join (a minimum level of good posting and community interaction is required, filtering out the J4Gs).

So yea, FACTS.

[Arthinas]

Proteaus, on 10 June 2012 - 05:49 AM, said:

At least unlike their forerunners in shadowbane(ebonlore)

Again, goons are just posters on Something Awful. Gosh, just look at the precious little pubbie trying to sound like he knows something. :allears:

Edited by Arthinas, 10 June 2012 - 07:56 AM.

[Harabec Weathers]

My extensive internet research abilities* have unveiled that Ebonlore started in '97 as some sorta Ultima Online guild that would later go on to be big ol' Jerks in other MMOs. I cannot find any strong link between this group and Something Awful Goons, besides being mentioned in the same paragraph once or twice in MMO Hate threads.

* Three minutes in Google Search :effort:

[Mechsniper]

Having avoided many mmorpgs util now I had never heard of the said entities mentioned above, but will comment as follows:

If the game is set up such that one well organized gaming entity can come in spend a bunch of money and dominate the game it is doomed to failure.

Skill must allow any group of similarly leveled players to have a fair chance against any other group IN A GIVEN BATTLE.

I certainly hope that anyone scamming the game that can be tracked to an in game name is permabanned.

Failure to comply with the above will severely limit the amount of people that join and stay with MWO. It will definitely drive me away quick if one group of guys is all you ever face and they always have an advantage in tech/weapons/money. I will not be joining there group or any similar.

As money follows participation I hope and trust that the devs have or will thoroughly set parameters to avoid single group taking over(at least for too long). The diversity and conflict are what make the idea of the metagame fun. It is a game. Make it real life serious and it is no longer a game I am interested in.

Merc corps and clans by thier definition should probably capped or they could outnumber the IS worlds quickly and upset the cannonical balance.

JMHO.

[RainbowToh]

The Mittani, on 08 June 2012 - 08:22 PM, said:

I'm delighted to accept your enmity and your 'KOS list'; it is rare and refreshing to find someone who is still offended by basic military tactics on the internet. I think my people will have a bright future in this game, and with House Liao. You're more than welcome to try to stop us!

Meanwhile, you're derailing the thread; you haven't offered much criticism of Pringlescan's OP, but you've written a lot of words to the effect of "goons are bad" and "spies are bad". That has nothing to do with the topic.

So the Goons have chosen House Liao? Why is that? Any particular reasons?

I dont want to hear from the rest of you that, it is because House Liao is a no good 'evil' power that fits the goons just nice. If the goons have chosen any other House, you folks would just whine and complain.

All the Great Houses scheme against each other like any other state would do in a realpolitik fashion.

[Vasces Diablo]

some excelent points here. These types of things also help bridge the gap between casual players and those who have tons of free time to devote to the game.

[Harabec Weathers]

RainbowToh, it would probably be better to ask that in the thread regarding goons in the Liao subforum.

This is a thread about suggestions for developing the end-game PvP Warfare. At least, it would be if people would stop derailing it by flipping about The Goons.

[edited to provide a link to said thread]

Edited by Harabec Weathers, 10 June 2012 - 10:18 AM.

[wargames]

RainbowToh, on 10 June 2012 - 10:11 AM, said:

So the Goons have chosen House Liao? Why is that? Any particular reasons?

I dont want to hear from the rest of you that, it is because House Liao is a no good 'evil' power that fits the goons just nice. If the goons have chosen any other House, you folks would just whine and complain.

All the Great Houses scheme against each other like any other state would do in a realpolitik fashion.

Mittens already said in this thread or in the laio thread can't remember but its because house davion has the thinest skined players.

[razorkill12]

Great post by the OP. Lots of insight on the community and where it could possibly be.

[CCC Dober]

I find it rather curious that goons want to set up shop as far away as possible from the main event (read: clan invasion). Being such a large, organized group that seems very odd. Does that look like the beginning of a longterm power grab in the Inner Spere or is that just my reading? Thoughts?

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

War Dogz, on 10 June 2012 - 05:54 AM, said:

You sure about that since everything i seen states a Merc unit has to bid on a planet.So is it by units they will use or Cheap Cbills payout ??

What part of "it would be cool if" means "this is how it will be"?

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

wargames, on 10 June 2012 - 10:17 AM, said:

Mittens already said in this thread or in the laio thread can't remember but its because house davion has the thinest skined players.

lol funny why choose that house? To grief other houses of course

[Harabec Weathers]

Nah, we just want to reverse the 4th succession war (and then some) and watch Davion fans froth in rage as we ignore the clans and carve them up. A lot of us kinda wanted to join FRR but its got too many Clanner Wannabies and other irritating people. The plan is to go Liao, for the time being.


Really though we just love the underdog, and that describes CapCon to a Tee.

[PANZERBUNNY]

CCC Dober, on 10 June 2012 - 10:36 AM, said:

I find it rather curious that goons want to set up shop as far away as possible from the main event (read: clan invasion). Being such a large, organized group that seems very odd. Does that look like the beginning of a longterm power grab in the Inner Spere or is that just my reading? Thoughts?

I was just thinking that today.

Seems they are after easy mode.