19 replies to this topic

[Kanya Pryde]

Hey folks, I'm exceptionally new to MWO. Long time battletech fan (Jade Phoenix days) and I used to play mechwarrior 4 with an old saitek setup. I'm wondering what you guys use, and what you like or don't like about it. I'm used to having a rocker button set up for torso twists. I'd like to stay with that, but want honest opinions on what's out there and what might work better once i get used to it.

[Hammerhai]

You will, sadly, simply not be as effective with a joystick as with a mouse for aiming, due to the way it is implemented in MWO. (Relative axes work best for mouse). Having said that, I simply like it.

If the rocker button allows you analog response. Ie more pressure faster turn, then yes. I think the Saiteks are set up like that. This is more nb for leg turning, btw. Just saw you want to torso twist with that. Either way you will suffer with aiming even more than any other JS user unless you are fully analog on all axes. Just be aware

Best of both worlds according to many is:

Throttle
Rudder
Mouse.

Personally I use the Warthog HOTAS and like it.

You will also have to set up and tweak your JS response in the user.cfg file. This can be a very long process of trial and error. Read the thread ATTENTION ALL JOYSTICK USERS by Paul Inouye first.

[Tannhauser Gate]

Yep, by design the mouse the kb are the default controls for MWO and are alot more responsive than joysticks. Im sure this was a business decision so that the game would appeal to a much larger segment of the gamers. Ive been a stick player since MW2 so this was an adjustment for me as well. I can understand and even support their decision but I wish they would make sticks at least equal to mouse and kb.

Maybe a stick user here can provide some cfg file and Windows tweaks that can fix this.

[Timuroslav]

I don't get all the hate for the Joysticks.
Yes the developers said the Joystick has not been optimized yet, BUT I can still get 400 Damage in a Commando 1B with it.
The Trick is to use the Joystick for general Mech movement and the mouse for Arm aiming.
Also make sure to get a joystick with a throttle.

When you setup a Joystick Make sure you set the movement binding in ANALOG and then move the joystick in the direction of your choosing. You only need to set one Analog value for the Sides and another One Analogue for Forward and backward.
It's also nice but not necessary to get get a twist Joystick for the Torso.

When you buy a Joystick. Make sure it has a Hat Nob and at least 5 buttons accessible to your thumb for your weapons.
I don't care how nice a person's mouse is. the More buttons you have on it the harder it is to use and quicker you get cramps in your hand.

Also make sure you have good DPI on your mouse.

PS. Left hand Movement Joystick is CRAZY AWESOME!

I do plan on getting Pedals for speed though It's annoying and slightly wonky to let go of Joystick Mid Combat. Though the Left Joystick mouse Right Combo Is Growing on me So Hard. I love it.


PS: I'm still using my Rumble Force Cyborg 3D Saitek Joystick from 2002 or 3 I think It's 10 "Years old. I first bought it for Mechwarrior Mercs Now I use it for MWO! so Symbolic right now I'm getting the warm and Fuzzies.
Talk about a well built product. \m/
though the Rumble doesn't work anymore meh.

Make Sure you have at least 4 buttons and a Hat(for Free look or Zoom) Accessible for your thumb.

My Button config at the Moment is this
Left Hat movement = Target Ally Info
Right Hat Movement = Target Next Enemy
Forward Hat Movement = Zoom in
BAck Hat Movement = Free look
Trigger= Disposable/Depletable Ammo Weapons Group 1
2-4 Weapons group 2-4
Throttle
8=Zoom Module
9= Instant Stop
10- Jumpjets
Mouse Button 3 Jump Jets

I have more mouse buttons but I hate any configuration with them because I become too reliant on my right hand and I get cramps when playing for 3 hours at a time.

Edited by Timuroslav, 21 June 2013 - 01:17 PM.

[Kanya Pryde]

Thanks everyone who has responded so far. It's cool to hear what is working for other people and hopefully can help new players like myself to come up with a setup that is fun and functional! Keep the sughestions rolling!

[Odinson]

Don't let people sell you on joysticks being "bad" or "less responsive." The odds are most of these people either haven't even tried a joystick or else do not understand how to properly configure theirs... unfortunately at this point PGI has not integrated much joystick support in to the UI, so the latter case is completely understandable.

I run a Thrustmaster T-Flight HOTAS X, a $50 HOTAS with far fewer buttons than the Saitek X52. It has both a rocker on the throttle for "rudder" control, as well as a Z "twist" axis on the stick, and they can be set up to act as the same axis or as seperate axes. I love it, though I do plan on getting an X52 Pro eventually. It took me many hours of tweaking my settings, however, before I got it right. The dead zone value must be set extremely low. The "gain" value determines the maximum speed that the joystick will produce at full lock in one direction. The "sensitivity" value determines how far you have to move the stick to get to that speed. I have mine set so if I just barely move the stick, my targeting reticle moves almost imperceptibly, but the stick will not produce full speed movement unless it is fully pushed to an extreme. This took a LOT of fiddling with to get right!

I would suggest you use your right hand stick to control your torso, both pitch and rotation. A rocker or twist, which most flight sims use for "rudder," is best used to control turning left/right. However, if you want to get a little crazy about your setup, you could get a set of rudder pedals and use those for turning. I will be picking up a set myself next month. Not that most people care, but I should point out that canonically Battlemechs use rudder pedals in the cockpit for this exact purpose.

I see a lot of people claim that accuracy suffers using a joystick, but I am able to hit whatever I want, even on fast-moving or jumping targets, just as often with my joystick as when I've used a mouse. I generally score 300-700 damage per game, depending on how I and my team are performing (I'll admit, I have "suck" games where I don't top 100, but no amount of using a mouse will fix those - those are tactical blunders).

I have a feeling that most people who denigrate joystick usage have very little experience in simulators, and most of their gaming experience is confined to "twitch"-gaming oriented FPS games. I played countless (and I do mean COUNTLESS) hours of combat flight sims and Mechwarrior 2 & 3 between 1996 and 2003, all with joysticks, and if you approach MWO from more of a "piloting" mindset than a "run and gun" mindset, you'll find there's no issue. The only real thing is that joysticks have a FAR steeper learning curve, as most people already are quite used to using a mouse, but few these days have ever even touched a joystick aside from the thumbsticks on their console controllers.

You will find a LARGE advantage in this game if you have an analog controller for your movement and turning. Even if you're using a mouse, you would be best served finding some kind of two-axis analog controller for the left hand to control forward/reverse and left/right turning. I cannot tell you how often I use a very slow turn to keep my lasers on-target as they discharge.

[Viper69]

I am a fan of all things CH products. You cannot go wrong and its tough as nails.

[Loc Nar]

Buy the HOTAS you most want to use with Star Citizen or something else to justify it's cost, then use it or part of it to play MWO.

Throttle/pedals/mouse is the easiest (not cheapest, easiest) way to have an optimal setup in MWO, with throttle/mouse closely behind and lefty stick/mouse being the next best down the foodchain. Throttle and turning are nicely implemented (well, except for that *screetch to a halt when you use battlegrid/chat/scoreboard with analog throttle thing) analog controls and as such work quite well with off-the-shelf throttles/joysticks however reticule aim in MWO is not ideally suited to *most joysticks although the issues with 'joystick' are not because it's a joystick, but rather its what is called a first-order controller while reticule aim in MWO is programmed as a zero-order application (just like moving the cursor in a browser).

zero-order: directly manipulates target/cursor position, single precision action req (also called direct inputs)
first-order: manipulates target/cursor velocity, two precision actions req

Unfortunately a first order controller is objectively disadvantaged in a zero-order environment, but if you want to try a stick that hurdles past all the perceived technical limitations holding back joysticks so you can go about objectively evaluating the viability of joystick for aiming etc before committing real money I recommend a Thrustmaster T16000M ($40) due to it's ability to be controlled by TARGET, providing more flexibility at your fingertips than any games 'joystick support' could ever hope to provide. It's a useful tool in any gamer's toybox actually, precisely for probing control viability regardless of a title's current state of control implementation.

There are zero-order joysticks, but unless you make one you likely do not have one. Check out the stick I built for MWO (descriptions in album) that was made for my mechpit to see an example.

Despite occasional finger pointing at PGI for lack of 'joystick support' it's not the issue at all, or at best just a distraction that keeps people from figuring out the underlying causes. PGI knows what a joystick is and how to code for it and if they wanted this game to be primarily played with joysticks, but they chose zero-order to appeal to a wider audience. The reason joysticks worked in previous mech titles is simple. They were coded for first-order controls, same reason a normal stick works great in a flight sim. I wrote an article called Controls Demystified(?) that gets into this in more detail.

*(from ATD40)
Gameplay/Game modes/Meta
Loc Nar: When will the controls be updated to allow the use of chat/scoreboard/battlegrid while using analog throttle?
A: It’s a technical limitation of the engine currently. We’re looking into a way to fix it.

[CyBerkut]

+1 on what Loc Nar said.

Is it possible to play with a joystick and throttle? Yes. Is it an optimal way to get the job done, given the design choices that PGI made in the control scheme? No.

If you really enjoy spending numerous hours trying to get a workable / competitive configuration for using a HOTAS, or if you can get one of the exceptional individuals who have persevered through that to come over to your house and do some variation of a Vulcan mind-meld to transfer similar skills to you... then sure... go for it. On the other hand, if you tend to fall more in line with mere mortals... you can spare yourself a lot of aggravation and select a suitable mouse for your strong hand, coupled with any number of options for the rest of the interface. I take no pleasure in saying that either. I REALLY wanted to use a HOTAS setup like I did with MW4. You can do it, but you are reducing the probability of being as good as you could be.

[Hammerhai]

Ok, to get you started.
Second the poster who uses rudder pedals to hold a laser on target while it fires. That makes a difference and is why I would not use a rocker unless it is analog in response. "Sawing" your way through a turn is not fun, like we did back in Closed Beta.

Here is my user.cfg

cl_joystick_gain = 5 ;my value here is 13
cl_joystick_sensitivity = 0.7 ;my value here is 1.25
cl_joystick_throttle_range = 0
cl_joystick_invert_throttle = 1
;cl_joystick_invert_pitch = 1
; cl_joystick_invert_yaw = 0
; cl_joystick_invert_turn = 0
; i_joystick_deadzone = 0.25 the syntax may be incorrect
i_joystick_buffered = 0 ;supposed to increase sensitivity

paste this in your user.cfg in Mech Warrior.

Comment lines are those with a ";" before them and have no effect. Use this to switch off options as needed. Currently the throttle axis still has to be inverted in the user.cfg, while you will have to invert your Joystick y axis in the client under options. Using the user.cfg command has been disabled. This can, of course, be done in the higher end HOTAS clients that come with your joystick as an alternative. Your choice.

Points to note: The command cl_throttle_range = 0 gives you a throttle which stops in the middle and allows you to throw reverse gear simply by pulling back the joystick. Some people prefer not having this, meaning you should map the invert throttle command to a handy button easy to reach. I find it handy when "advancing to the rear" to just pull back and get my poor mech out of dodge.

The sensitivity command decreases sensitivity as it increases and controls small movements. This is counter intuitive but the way it is, unfortunately. So you slow down smaller movements of the joystick by increasing this, nb to remember.

When tweaking your values always keep a record of the previous values used in a commented out line if you want to revert.
The gain command controls larger deflections and increases speed as the value is increased. Values from 13 on give fast response at higher deflections, but less accuracy. All the same I have legged an unlucky Commando or two who got lazy.

Give yourself time to get used to a config, and do not chop and change too much once you are roughly dialled in

To give you an idea, Turbo Corvair placed 24 or so overall in one of the first tournaments while using a joystick, so it can be done. Accuracy is also less of an issue when driving fast lights anyway, as you cannot hold a normal laser on target. You will get rake.

If you go into your omicron.log you will see error messages about your user config commands, but the ones given here are functional as of writing. Ignore.

[Kanya Pryde]

Thanks again for all the replies and thoughts. You guys rock! I have a unit called a xim3 that i purchased to use as a keyboard and mouse interface for xbox 360... maybe there is a workaround on that. Reading your comments makes me think it might help.

[Napoleon_Blownapart]

i cant find the user.cfg file everyone talks about anywhere, i would love to adjust the gain and sensitivity.any ideas?

Edited by Gorantir, 20 June 2013 - 12:11 AM.

[Napoleon_Blownapart]

even with gorantir.cfg i find no file

[Hammerhai]

It should be in the Directory \Mechwarrior Online, which is the top directory for Mech Warrior. Along with the files systemoverride.cfg and so on.

Tip: One of the best file search tools I ever found is called Everything. You can find it by googling Everything Search engine homepage. Try it, you will not be disappointed. Just type in user.cfg and see if it exists.

If it does not exist, you can create it by opening notepad, Clicking Save As, switching to file type all files. (NOT .txt. If you do that it will save as user.cfg.txt, and you will have to rename it to user.cfg), and saving it in the above Directory.

[Napoleon_Blownapart]

just made the file with notepad with your values and seems better, going to play with the values, thanks a whole bunch

[Kanya Pryde]

Hammerhai, thanks for posting all the tips. You are a great asset to this community! Unfortunately, I haven't been able to put the tips to use yet... not tons of time for gaming in my busy life!

Edited by Kanya Pryde, 21 June 2013 - 12:46 PM.

[EyeDie I]

i have been trying (badly) using my joystick with my weapons controller and a trackball mouse between them for finer targeting it seems a little better than just the joy+wpn.

[Kanya Pryde]

Update: I picked up CH Products Fighterstick and Throttle (based on reviews that I read here in the forums) and have set up Hammerhai's cfg file and used the interface in the game itself. It's not smooth for me yet, but at least it's a starting point. Thank you so much!

[Kanya Pryde]

Update: Last night I abandoned the cfg file and started tweaking my setup with CH Manager. I know this won't be helpful to everyone in the community, but my plan is to get it as good as possible with the CH Manager first and then see if I can tweak it down even tighter with the cfg file.

So far I'm finding that having the sensitivity down around 90 and the deadzone at 0 is decent, but more tweaking is necessary.


As Loc Nar stated, this is not smooth and easy, and I have a feeling it will take time, but in the end hopefully I can play the game at an adequate level and have more fun.

Right now MWO isn't seeing my analog thumb stick on the throttle, but I am hoping to set that up for analog turning in game in the future.

EDIT: I know I've said this before, but thanks to all those who have taken the time to respond. I feel as though I've been learning a lot through this process. The MWO forums have been super helpful!

Edited by Kanya Pryde, 17 July 2013 - 06:31 AM.

[Lynchpin789]

http://flyelite.com/...-visual-system/