41 replies to this topic

[Ranek Blackstone]

FupDup, on 20 June 2013 - 03:50 PM, said:

Go to TechManual and read the Omnimech construction rules. It says that armor/engine/etc. can't be changed between the base, primary, or alternate configurations. In other words, stock variants. It's a common error for this to be overextended to include custom configurations, which it doesn't. Strategic Operations says under its refit rules:


So yes, an Omni can in fact modify those internal items, but in order to do so it becomes a custom unit and loses its Omni capabilities (becomes a regular Battlemech).

I don't really see PGI allowing something like this. Adds a significant amount of complications to the system for little gain. How would you handle something like this?

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And other thing: hardpoints don't exist at all in canon for Omnis or Battlemechs. Omnis just let you mod and repair the weapons much faster and easier. So really, our current Battlemechs wouldn't even have hardpoints at all in BT. Omni hardpoints (and energy, missile, ballistic) were invented by MW4 as a means to make mechs have a different "flavor." Maybe MWO Omnis will just have pure Omni hardpoints, maybe they won't have hardpoints at all, maybe they'll mix Omni with standard hardpoints. We don't know what PGI has planned for this so there's no use trying to guess.

Hardpoints were added in mw4 because MW2/3 had more boats then most navies. There was no reason to grab anything but the heaviest mech you could so you could stuff as many MLas on it as you could. They also make logical sense and probably should have been in the canon. Then again, most of BT canon needs to be rebooted and reworked in it's entirety because it hasn't aged well at all. I'm not saying it needs to be gundamed or anything, but some things just flat out make little logical sense when you stop to think about it for more then 2 seconds. But I'm getting off track here.

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The rule for all engines is that an engine which is critted in 3 slots is destroyed (this can even be done to the center torso). Because IS XL takes up 3 slots in each side torso, blowing up a side torso automatically fulfills that requirement. Clan XL only take up 2 slots in each side torso, so blowing up one side torso isn't enough to finish it off.

Not going to lie, I really see canon taking a back seat here in regards to the rules on engine destruction. I can totally see a single torso being enough to kill a Clan XL. It makes it consistent with IS XL as far as risk reward goes (the smaller size makes them slightly better), but mostly because no engine likes to work after having a non-trivial portion violently removed.

Edited by Ranek Blackstone, 20 June 2013 - 04:17 PM.

[FupDup]

Ranek Blackstone, on 20 June 2013 - 04:17 PM, said:

I don't really see PGI allowing something like this. Adds a significant amount of complications to the system for little gain. How would you handle something like this?

My own favorite suggestion I've seen for it was to make Omni/Battlemech into a sort of tech upgrade just like Artemis, FF, Endo, or DHS. Basically, an Omni would start out with the Omnimech option equipped. This would let it move items in and out their pod space as they feel, but they would lack the total modability of current mechs. In order to get that modability, you'd have to equip the Battlemech "upgrade" and then the mech would have its pods stripped and be given standard hardpoints (energy, missile, ballistic) to put stuff in.

Or, they might not even care about the Omni distinction at all and just make them work like normal mechs. The whole point of them is that normal Battlemechs are slow, expensive, and risky to refit or repair. Omnis are easy to repair and refit (at least when it comes to Omnipods). MWO, however, allows normal Battlemechs to refit and repair instantly, so Omnis would be a straight-downgrade in our current environment.

Ranek Blackstone, on 20 June 2013 - 04:17 PM, said:

Hardpoints were added in mw4 because MW2/3 had more boats then most navies. There was no reason to grab anything but the heaviest mech you could so you could stuff as many MLas on it as you could. They also make logical sense and probably should have been in the canon. Then again, most of BT canon needs to be rebooted and reworked in it's entirety because it hasn't aged well at all. I'm not saying it needs to be gundamed or anything, but some things just flat out make little logical sense when you stop to think about it for more then 2 seconds. But I'm getting off track here.

While I do agree that hardpoints really would have been a very nice feature in canon (and BT does definitely need to be reborn in many other ways as well), my own guess for the creation of them was just to make mechs have individual roles. In MW3, for instance, I could just outfit a Centurion like a Hunchback or a Daishi like an Atlas. There was pretty much no point in having more than one mech of the same weight increment because they were all just reskinned gunbags.

Ranek Blackstone, on 20 June 2013 - 04:17 PM, said:

Not going to lie, I really see canon taking a back seat here in regards to the rules on engine destruction. I can totally see a single torso being enough to kill a Clan XL. It makes it consistent with IS XL as far as risk reward goes (the smaller size makes them slightly better), but mostly because no engine likes to work after having a non-trivial portion violently removed.

PGI seems to have a habit of using the parts of canon that aren't always good for gameplay and ignoring the parts that would make life easier for us. About risk versus reward: the sad and pathetic truth is that everything Clan was designed by FASA to be superior in every possible little way to Inner Sphere equipment. Less risk yet higher rewards. It's a power gamer's wet dream come true. You get less weight, less slots, more range, more damage, and once in a while even less heat. Knowing PGI's personality, I wouldn't be surprised if they chose to stick to TT for Clan XL; it would probably make Clan assaults and non-Timberwolf (because of huge head and side torso hitboxes) heavies obnoxiously overpowered, but the devs probably wouldn't care that much.