70 replies to this topic

[ArtistX]

Large hit boxes and precision damage weapons like the PPCs don't mix...the extra armor Assaults have is completely negated by the fact that the center/side torso is so easy to hit...



So instead of large hit boxes representing a whole area why not use a smaller hex grid armor system where larger mechs have more hexes and the damage is spread out more while smaller mechs have less hexes and the damage (when it hits) is more concentrated...

This would help curve the sniping since damage would need to be focused more tightly rather than how it is now where they just need to focus on the "same general area"



Of course to make this work some weapons would need to have their base damage reduced while increasing splash damage... but splash damage would actually be viable and not game breaking like how it is now with the large hit boxes...

In my opinion this would fix alot of the balance issues MWO has including:

- Making LB-Xs more viable
- Making SRMs more viable
- Laser would be more viable compared to PPCs and Ballistics.
- Making Brawling more viable compared to Sniping..
- Slowing down combat so that it's longer and more tactical...
- Making Assualt mechs into the juggernauts they should be(instead of huge targets)
- Awesomes would be viable...
- LRMs could be more viable and not overpowered..

It would actually take more combinations of weapons to effectively strip armor and go for internals...

[Purlana]

Wouldn't you have less armor per hex?

Let's say you have 80 points of armor. If you have 10 hexes (8 armor per hex), what happens when they do 20 DMG in one hex?

[ArtistX]

Purlana, on 18 June 2013 - 09:52 AM, said:

Wouldn't you have less armor per hex?

Let's say you have 80 points of armor. If you have 10 hexes (8 armor per hex), what happens when they do 20 DMG in one hex?

Base damage would be lowered and splash damage added for weapons that need it.... I also see very little reason to use the same values for armor points.. overall it would be higher I suppose.

-edit You could also make it so that damage to one hex is distributed to surrounding hexes...

Edited by ArtistX, 18 June 2013 - 10:04 AM.

[Kibble]

This is too confusing for pgi. Thank god they won't even read it...whew!

Edited by Kibble, 18 June 2013 - 10:11 AM.

[dario03]

Wouldn't that buff bigger mechs more than lighter mechs? Aren't the bigger mechs already the best and most used mechs? Why do they need a buff?

[Roughneck45]

No, that looks awful.

Im sure it would be a nightmare to code as well.

Damage does not need to be spread for you, you need to learn to torso twist. The fact that you can actually target 11 different parts of the mech is one of the most enjoyable aspects of the game.

Edited by Roughneck45, 18 June 2013 - 10:26 AM.

[ArtistX]

dario03, on 18 June 2013 - 10:22 AM, said:

Wouldn't that buff bigger mechs more than lighter mechs? Aren't the bigger mechs already the best and most used mechs? Why do they need a buff?

Actually it would buff smaller mechs too since it makes speed more viable when it's harder to hit the same spot on a fast moving mech.... and PGI could undo some of the speed scaling it's done...

[Tombstoner]

Roughneck45, on 18 June 2013 - 10:24 AM, said:

No, that looks awful.

Im sure it would be a nightmare to code as well.

Damage does not need to be spread for you, you need to learn to torso twist. The fact that you can actually target 11 different parts of the mech is one of the most enjoyable aspects of the game.

Torso twisting is a gimmick learned to counter a missing part of the PRS. That part is convergence and damage spread.
The OP's idea is a good one and the armor values for each subsection would be the same as the main section. I like it a lot.
It would give the game a much needed boost in-terms of game play and survivability.... yes you can still torso change to min max your armor.

[Kraven Kor]

I think this would be a neat idea.

Armor (in the real world...) is, generally speaking, kind of "all or nothing." Either it deflects the incoming attack entirely, or the incoming attack breeches the armor and musses things all up.

Repetitive hits to the same spot mean nothing, until the armor is actually damaged or weakened or breached in that spot.

With this, light mechs could have say "15 points per hex" and fewer overall hexes (an AC/20 will breach one hex, period.) Heavier mechs have more per hex; so assaults might have 30 per hex, mediums 20, heavies 25, or whatever, right? And also more hexes overall.

A truly good shot could land all his ordinance on a single hex and be nearly guaranteed a chance at internal damage and criticals; those that spray and pray wouldn't see all that much difference to their performance.

Any shot that hits a spot with a breach, or breaches a hex of armor, deals damage to the internal structure as normal, and gets a chance at a crit.

Now, I don't see this happening here and would not recommend it, but it is an interesting idea.

We do know, though, that more hitboxes = more problems, generally speaking.

[PanzerMagier]

If it's too confusing for me (well it just looks like they'll have to rework every mech/weapon in the game)...

It's certainly too confusing/too much effort for PGI...

[Kitane]

I had a similar idea a while ago. I can't imagine any serious attempt to bring a believable BT mech combat to a PC game without droping the whole old TT armor system and replacing it with a new armor system with a proper damage model.

The game will never be balanced with a component armor system.

I would avoid hexes though, it's not a collision detection-friendly shape.

[Roughneck45]

Tombstoner, on 18 June 2013 - 10:30 AM, said:

Torso twisting is a gimmick

ahahahahahahahahahahahah

[dario03]

ArtistX, on 18 June 2013 - 10:27 AM, said:

Actually it would buff smaller mechs too since it makes speed more viable when it's harder to hit the same spot on a fast moving mech.... and PGI could undo some of the speed scaling it's done...

I realize that but won't it buff the heavies more so?

[Homeless Bill]

Roughneck45, on 18 June 2013 - 10:24 AM, said:

Im sure it would be a nightmare to code as well.

This. Whether or not it's bad to write (hint: it would be pretty bad), I guarantee this would be a needless suck on performance.

[topgun505]

I posted an idea like this during closed beta. My theory would be to make the armour value you set apply to ALL the hexs for that section. So if you put 80 armor on the front CT then every hex has 80. This way mechs of all types really can take the punishment and last a long time on the battlefield.

This might give them too much endurance, however. In that case the solution is simple. Drop the double armor values.

[ArtistX]

if it's too complicated then how about simply splitting hitboxes into a few smaller parts... am I the only one who thinks getting hit on the very tip of your sholder counting as damage to your whole side torso is a bit unbalanced for larger mechs?

[Petroshka]

Or just make more mech body parts

- Head
- Upper arm
- Lower Arm
- Upper leg
- Lower Leg
- Chest
- Upper back
- Abdomen
- Lower back
- L. Shoulder
- L. Rear Shoulder
- R. Shoulder.
- R. Rear Shoulder.

Upper and lower arm would have as much armor as the current arm. Same for legs.
Abdomen and chest, as much armor as current CT.
Upper back and lower back as much as current CT rear.

[dario03]

Homeless Bill, on 18 June 2013 - 10:36 AM, said:

This. Whether or not it's bad to write (hint: it would be pretty bad), I guarantee this would be a needless suck on performance.

That was the other thing I was wondering. Didn't know how hard it would of been to code but I was thinking it would hurt performance. And this game already has a decently high minimum system requirements. But I'm not a programmer so I don't really know.

[Kraven Kor]

Again, neat idea, but doubt it would ever work.

More hitboxes = more problems, any way you slice it.

If another game could make something like this work, that would be sweet. Would be great for a "realistic" tanks game; where you either deflect the shot entirely, or explode violently

[Jasen]

PGI can't get hit detection working for 11 total parts of a mech... and you want to make MORE!? Are you insane?