124 replies to this topic

[Sybreed]

Just played a match today on my Founder's Cat sporting the usual LRM-15 duo and just realized that more than half of my volleys were shot down by 2 AMS.

Around 20 missiles shot down? Is this serious?

How is a, I don't know, Quickdraw, is supposed to use LRMs when a single AMS can shoot down the entire volley, unless PGI wants all Quickdraw pilots to use SRMs only?

For christ' sake, tone down AMS by half at least.

[Sir Wulfrick]

I can assure you that on occasion when I'm forced to cross open terrain in my 48.5Kmh Atlas that the AMS is certainly not overly effective.

Are you sure that it was AMS that was taking down your LRM volleys and not terrain masking or loss of lock?

[NinetyProof]

AMS is fine ... individually.

When you get 2 or 3 mechs that all have AMS? yes, those 2 or 3 mechs trump you cause your only 1. If you had 2 or 3 missile boats against 2 of 3 AMS the boats would win.

Besides, at 30 missiles your not even a boat ... what? you expect free damage? Boat it up or stop complaining.

[Vodrin Thales]

AMS is fine. It should be effective when massed as it is not that easy to huddle together without making yourself a very easy target for the 5-6 PPC mechs on the opposing team.

[Nicholas Carlyle]

Vodrin Thales, on 18 June 2013 - 11:25 AM, said:

AMS is fine. It should be effective when massed as it is not that easy to huddle together without making yourself a very easy target for the 5-6 PPC mechs on the opposing team.

Cause that makes sense!

Can't tell if that was sarcasm or not.

I've started seeing this problem too. 2 AMS basically eats up a 40 LRM's.

So how is a single launcher suppose to function?

This game is so f'd up it's ridiculous.

[Sybreed]

NinetyProof, on 18 June 2013 - 11:00 AM, said:

AMS is fine ... individually.

When you get 2 or 3 mechs that all have AMS? yes, those 2 or 3 mechs trump you cause your only 1. If you had 2 or 3 missile boats against 2 of 3 AMS the boats would win.

Besides, at 30 missiles your not even a boat ... what? you expect free damage? Boat it up or stop complaining.

are... you ... trolling? I'm confused... am I forced to boat now?

Sir Wulfrick, on 18 June 2013 - 10:53 AM, said:

I can assure you that on occasion when I'm forced to cross open terrain in my 48.5Kmh Atlas that the AMS is certainly not overly effective.

Are you sure that it was AMS that was taking down your LRM volleys and not terrain masking or loss of lock?

No terrain, I saw them get shot in the air as soon as I fired them (was amongst the enemy team). I saw 2 AMS shooting 2/3 of the volley down before it could reach a target 500M away.

[Nicholas Carlyle]

I also don't get why 3 mechs with 1.5 tons dedicated to a system that requires no actual management should trump anything?

That's like ECM all over again.

I'm not saying LRM's are perfectly fine and balanced. They are bugged to hell. But with people starting to put AMS on again, it utterly DESTROYS LRM's unless you are doing some kind of 90 LRM joke build.

[NinetyProof]

Nicholas Carlyle, on 18 June 2013 - 11:27 AM, said:

I've started seeing this problem too. 2 AMS basically eats up a 40 LRM's.

BS ... 2 AMS don't eat a Salvo of 40 LRM's.

Used to be something like 4 or 5 .. now it's more like 7 or 8? maybe even 9? haven't done any real testing outside of running AMS in single mode, in dual mode (stalker 5s?) as well as running a 50 and 60 LRM boats.

[Nicholas Carlyle]

NinetyProof, on 18 June 2013 - 11:34 AM, said:

BS ... 2 AMS don't eat a Salvo of 40 LRM's.

Used to be something like 4 or 5 .. now it's more like 7 or 8? maybe even 9? haven't done any real testing outside of running AMS in single mode, in dual mode (stalker 5s?) as well as running a 50 and 60 LRM boats.

Sorry should have clarified better, it's not destroying all 40 missiles. But it looks like it's destroying more than half the pack of missiles visually. And they do virtually no damage due to that and the other LRM bugs currently in place.

I run an AMS on my 45 LRM Highlander, and A) don't fear LRM's and B] see a lot of what AMS does against me.

Edited by Nicholas Carlyle, 18 June 2013 - 11:38 AM.

[Soy]

this is my care face

8|

[Troggy]

It has been discussed exactly how many missiles that one AMS shoots down. It is an average of ~4 per AMS.

http://mwo.gamepedia..._Missile_System

@ OP: Yours is an absurd argument. It is impossible to make an AMS that protects against main-weapon LRM threats (1xLRM20 or 2xLRM15), and still allows for damage from one secondary LRM launch against a group of mechs, i.e. 1xLRM10 vs 2 AMS.

As it should be. Missile defences, especially grouped ones, must be saturated.

This makes complete and logical sense.
--
Troggy

Edited by Troggy, 18 June 2013 - 11:42 AM.

[Tabrias07]

AMS only works within 90m of the mech carrying it, but if you're shooting over them it's possible your missiles will be caught in it a full 180m, doubling the amount shot down.

pick your targets better, and switch when you see all your LRMs evaporating.

[Sybreed]

Troggy, on 18 June 2013 - 11:42 AM, said:

It has been discussed exactly how many missiles that one AMS shoots down. It is an average of ~4 per AMS.

http://mwo.gamepedia..._Missile_System

@ OP: Yours is an absurd argument. It is impossible to make an AMS that protects against main-weapon LRM threats (1xLRM20 or 2xLRM15), and still allows for damage from one secondary LRM launch against a group of mechs, i.e. 1xLRM10 vs 2 AMS.

As it should be. Missile defences, especially grouped ones, must be saturated.

This makes complete and logical sense.
--
Troggy

would be possible if AMS shot down a % of missiles instead of the current system.

My argument was intended to be absurd, it's called demonstration by absurdity (or something like that), you demonstrate that something doesn't make sense by using an absurd, but still true, example.

Here, the absurdity is that a single LRM-10 salvo is completely shot down by 2 AMS, forcing players to either
A) Skip LRMs for something else
B ) Boat LRMs so they don't get all shot down.

Again, I'm refering to bad design choices that PGI took and decided to stick with.

And I'm no BT expert, so I'm gonna ask, how does AMS work in TT? Before haters flame me, remember TT was more balanced than MWO. So, I'm wondering, is AMS supposed to completely nullify a single LRM-10 or 15?

Edited by Sybreed, 18 June 2013 - 11:50 AM.

[El Bandito]

Sybreed, on 18 June 2013 - 10:48 AM, said:

Just played a match today on my Founder's Cat sporting the usual LRM-15 duo and just realized that more than half of my volleys were shot down by 2 AMS. Around 20 missiles shot down? Is this serious? How is a, I don't know, Quickdraw, is supposed to use LRMs when a single AMS can shoot down the entire volley, unless PGI wants all Quickdraw pilots to use SRMs only? For christ' sake, tone down AMS by half at least.

AMS is fine--now it is finally useful. Don't touch it.

Even though the new AMS made my Streakcat less useful, I still love the change.

[NinetyProof]

Troggy, on 18 June 2013 - 11:42 AM, said:

It has been discussed exactly how many missiles that one AMS shoots down. It is an average of ~4 per AMS.

http://mwo.gamepedia..._Missile_System

Psst ... that is out date. That is pre-AMS buff.

You might want to "Keep Up With the Times As They Is a Changing".

There is another post floating around from somebody that did some testing ... I think they said 7 now ... but could have been 7-8 leaning towards 9? My gut tells me 7 is about right .. but that 4 number is straight out old and many said it was really 5 so that was not really *solid* anyways.

[mike29tw]

Tabrias07, on 18 June 2013 - 11:48 AM, said:

AMS only works within 90m of the mech carrying it, but if you're shooting over them it's possible your missiles will be caught in it a full 180m, doubling the amount shot down.

pick your targets better, and switch when you see all your LRMs evaporating.

one of, if not the most important factor right here.

I used to enjoy running light mechs with AMS and place myself right below a LRM path targeting friendly, intercepting 9~10 missiles out of the whole salvo.

[General Taskeen]

Better yet, how is a Mech supposed to use LRM5. I would suggest upping the health or major speed increase of LRM5 missiles, but whoops, all missiles are tied to the same programming.

Edited by General Taskeen, 18 June 2013 - 12:11 PM.

[El Bandito]

General Taskeen, on 18 June 2013 - 12:10 PM, said:

Better yet, how is a Mech supposed to use LRM5. I would suggest upping the health or major speed increase of LRM5 missiles, but whoops, all missiles are tied to the same programming.

For scouting valleys to see any enemy mechs around? AMS is a dead give away.

Even in the BT novels, a single LRM5 was easily taken care of by AMS.

Edited by El Bandito, 18 June 2013 - 12:14 PM.

[Vodrin Thales]

Nicholas Carlyle, on 18 June 2013 - 11:27 AM, said:

I've started seeing this problem too. 2 AMS basically eats up a 40 LRM's.

Unless they buffed AMS again in the last patch this is simply not true. Two AMS will knock off 10-15 missiles depending on the exact position of the mechs and flight path of the incoming fire, and one will get 5-7 missiles, no more. I really think this is completely fair.

[Nicholas Carlyle]

The whole meta is just completely fubar.

The game as a whole is a mess.

This AMS vs. LRM issue isn't really a huge deal in a generally well put together game.

In this cluster of a game it's just ANOTHER messed up mechanic which probably isn't functioning properly (1 AMS negating an LRM5, or 2 AMS negating an LRM15-20), and should have been set up as a % of missiles.

On top of the issue with the flight path and missiles missing targets moving horizontally if they get above 60 kph, it's just more stupidness.

I'm not advocating it should be on the top of the list of things for PGI to fix.

But it's still another broken *** mechanic.