124 replies to this topic

[Tabrias07]

General Taskeen, on 18 June 2013 - 12:10 PM, said:

Better yet, how is a Mech supposed to use LRM5. I would suggest upping the health or major speed increase of LRM5 missiles, but whoops, all missiles are tied to the same programming.

LRM5's already have the tightest spread and highest refire rate. chainfire them against non-ams'd targets (trust me there's a ton of them) to tear off CT's or use them as fillers in larger volleys. LRM15+5 is better than LRM20.

[Nicholas Carlyle]

Vodrin Thales, on 18 June 2013 - 12:14 PM, said:

Unless they buffed AMS again in the last patch this is simply not true. Two AMS will knock off 10-15 missiles depending on the exact position of the mechs and flight path of the incoming fire, and one will get 5-7 missiles, no more. I really think this is completely fair.

I'm seeing differently when I shoot 45 missiles. This might be due to the split up flight path due to launcher limits. It looks like 2 AMS are taking out about half the pack of missiles.

And then when you throw in the missing bug, it really gets dicey to use LRM's.

[LaserAngel]

It's better for your friend that yourself. While the AMS does prioritize missiles fired at you, it does a better job shooting down missiles that are over you but not targeted at you. The AMS has a much longer engagement time. As mentioned above, a light intercepting missiles is very effective.

In addition, salvo sizes are needed to overwhelm defenses. Trickle fire from smaller launchers gives friendly AMS a greater chance to kill.

Edited by LaserAngel, 18 June 2013 - 12:20 PM.

[Calos112]

I think AMS is fine, it is annoying when 3 enemy mechs have it and splat all your LRMs down. What I think a proper solution would be to cut the ammo in half. 500 rounds instead of 1000. In the lore mechs were running out of AMS ammo quite often. Just my opinion.

[Yelland]

I'm no authority on this topic. I am frankly quite terrible using LRM's effectively (even with TAG and BAP), and haven't really got the hang of them.

However, I have also found them less of a threat as I have gained experience.

I always run AMS when possible and once I recognize there are LRM boats I stay near high cover and move laterally (not towards or away) on "incoming". If I am not careful I can be in trouble quickly.

So it makes me wonder if AMS is a problem, or if players are learning how to mitigate LRM damage better? Hence it being less effective as a solo approach and more of a coordinated tool?

[Tabrias07]

Nicholas Carlyle, on 18 June 2013 - 12:17 PM, said:

I'm seeing differently when I shoot 45 missiles. This might be due to the split up flight path due to launcher limits. It looks like 2 AMS are taking out about half the pack of missiles.

And then when you throw in the missing bug, it really gets dicey to use LRM's.

AMS is calculated as AMS dps (3.5) vs. the Damage Value of the missile volley, multiplied by the time the missiles spend in range.

If you're mech is splitting your volleys in half, the AMS will destroy twice as many.

You can fire all your missiles simultaneously as long as each launcher you have equipped doesn't go over the tube limit.

i.e., a CN9-A has ten tubes, and 3 M hardpoints.
It can fire 3SRM6 at once
It can fire 3LRM10 at once
2 LRM 15 will fire 20 missiles in the first volley (ten from each launcher) followed by a second volley of 10 (5 from each launcher)

out of 3LRM10, AMS should destroy ~7
out of 2LRM15, AMS should destroy ~12-14

Edited by Tabrias07, 18 June 2013 - 12:30 PM.

[Nicholas Carlyle]

It's not 2 equal volley's. I think it's 35 and 10.

But it looks like it's getting cut to somewhere like 25-30 missiles from 2 AMS.

Then you throw in ECM, and some of the funkiness of LRM's, and you can become worthless really quickly in a match.

And considering the sheer amount of tonnage, extra equipment and modules involved. It sucks when I'm getting marginalized by 3 1.5 ton systems when used well.

Edited by Nicholas Carlyle, 18 June 2013 - 12:31 PM.

[Victor Morson]

AMS was boosted when missiles were brought into being very OP, but then it was never brought back down. It really needs to be tuned.

[Pater Mors]

You people will complain about anything.

[Nicholas Carlyle]

Pater Mors, on 18 June 2013 - 12:34 PM, said:

You people will complain about anything.

No, it's just that there is SO much to complain about.

There is just so much wrong with this game. I could spend time on ECM and the information warfare. I could spend time on SRM's. I could focus on Streaks. I could spend time on LRM's and AMS. Or how about PPC's? Or maybe Pulse Lasers? EVERYTHING is busted in some way shape or form.

It's all a giant cluster. And then they release patches like this, which fixed 1 weapon and further broke 1 weapon...that's amazing.

[Pater Mors]

Nicholas Carlyle, on 18 June 2013 - 12:36 PM, said:

No, it's just that there is SO much to complain about.

There is just so much wrong with this game. I could spend time on ECM and the information warfare. I could spend time on SRM's. I could focus on Streaks. I could spend time on LRM's and AMS. Or how about PPC's? Or maybe Pulse Lasers? EVERYTHING is busted in some way shape or form.

It's all a giant cluster. And then they release patches like this, which fixed 1 weapon and further broke 1 weapon...that's amazing.

Yeah, there's a lot of problems with this game. For the first time in ages AMS and LRMs are not part of the problem. And yet here you are complaining about them.

[zraven7]

Oh, for the love of Pete...

AMS is FINE!

Seriously, people, what gives? Missiles hurt, they nerf them. Then they do nothing, so they buff them. Then ECM, so they over buff them. Then they fix them, but now you are upset when people who have AN ENTIRE SYSTEM DEDICATED TO NOTHING BUT DESTROYING LRMS are able to withstand some LRMs.

The ANTI MISSILE SYSTEM is working entirely as intended. I've personally been of the mindset that you should be able to manually shoot down missiles, but I settle for AMS. it does what it's supposed to. If you don't like it, target another mech, or have a teamie blow it off whoever you're targeting.

[Victor Morson]

zraven7, on 18 June 2013 - 12:44 PM, said:

Oh, for the love of Pete...

AMS is FINE!

The problem with AMS is since it will shoot at allied targets, your experience will vary.

3 people using AMS in a cluster* = Negates most missiles. 5 People = Negates pretty much all missiles. 1 Person = Doesn't do that much. If your perspective is from firing on 1, maybe 2 AMS targets, you're not seeing the full picture.

2 Twin-AMS Stalkers are also uncrackable, almost.

* I say cluster, but the best defense is actually a line. If you can put 3 people in a direct line between you and the missile boat, pretty much no missile will get through - that's because the AMS will fire in a full "360 degree arc" and hit the missiles for twice as long as if they were going to stop in the middle of the range bubble (your 'mech).

EDIT: I'd vote to turn the AMS range, not damage, down - if they stopped intercepting flights from so far back they'd be fine.

Edited by Victor Morson, 18 June 2013 - 12:55 PM.

[Screech]

Yes, nerf AMS now so we will then have to nerf LRM 2 weeks later. The nerf machine must be fed.

[Nicholas Carlyle]

Screech, on 18 June 2013 - 12:59 PM, said:

Yes, nerf AMS now so we will then have to nerf LRM 2 weeks later. The nerf machine must be fed.

No, see the problem is they never actually fix anything properly.

This isn't about nerfs.

This is about weapons functioning properly against the equipment in the game.

Half of it is broke ***. A quarter of it is ok, and a quarter is just right.

That makes for a crappy game, where a lot of these complaint threads actually have legitimate points.

And PGI will not fix it properly, they've yet to fix something properly the entire time I've been here.

And for reference, the only reason I even bother playing anymore is it's free. They haven't seen any money from me since the MC sale last year because they've f'd up so much.

[Screech]

Nicholas Carlyle, on 18 June 2013 - 01:10 PM, said:

No, see the problem is they never actually fix anything properly.

This isn't about nerfs.

This is about weapons functioning properly against the equipment in the game.

Half of it is broke ***. A quarter of it is ok, and a quarter is just right.

That makes for a crappy game, where a lot of these complaint threads actually have legitimate points.

And PGI will not fix it properly, they've yet to fix something properly the entire time I've been here.

And for reference, the only reason I even bother playing anymore is it's free. They haven't seen any money from me since the MC sale last year because they've f'd up so much.

I get where you are coming from. Just on this one issue LRM and AMS, I think at worst it falls into the OK department. There are much bigger fish to fry and the skillet ain't too hot.

[arghmace]

AMS is terrible because it forces people to boat LRM's. It should shoot down perhaps 20% of incoming missiles, not a certain amount of missiles per second. That way it would shoot one missile down from LRM5 and 4 missiles down from LRM20. But no. Now it shoots down all the missiles of LRM5 making it useless. Everybody gotta boat at least 40 missiles to be worth a damn.

[Nicholas Carlyle]

Screech, on 18 June 2013 - 01:26 PM, said:

I get where you are coming from. Just on this one issue LRM and AMS, I think at worst it falls into the OK department. There are much bigger fish to fry and the skillet ain't too hot.

No that's fine. I agree.

I'm not saying that AMS vs. LRM's should be first on the plate.

I'm just saying I think there is an issue there that will eventually need to be dealt with.

Just add it to the list.

[Nicholas Carlyle]

arghmace, on 18 June 2013 - 01:32 PM, said:

AMS is terrible because it forces people to boat LRM's. It should shoot down perhaps 20% of incoming missiles, not a certain amount of missiles per second. That way it would shoot one missile down from LRM5 and 4 missiles down from LRM20. But no. Now it shoots down all the missiles of LRM5 making it useless. Everybody gotta boat at least 40 missiles to be worth a damn.

My issue comes from a problem you probably won't see (because contrary to some people claims, LRM's are just barely ok right now), what happens if a team all fields AMS?

Normally teams aren't getting too far spread out.

So an LRM mech fires LRM's, every time the LRM's pass near an enemy mech on the way to the target, those AMS are going to rip apart the volley.

8 x 1.5. That's 12 tons could negate basically every LRM on the field, even a mega boat.

And I'm not even including the presence of ECM.

I realize this is an extreme example.

But extremes are killing this game. AC/20 Jagers are an extreme. 4 x PPC Stalkers are an extreme.

[Obadiah333]

Sounds like someone's easy button is broke.