124 replies to this topic

[One Medic Army]

Nicholas Carlyle, on 19 June 2013 - 12:31 PM, said:

That about sums up this game to me. (Sorry to pull that one part out of your post like that, I realize it's a bit of a d*ck move, but i'm heading home)

I blame the TRO artwork guys for designing a long-range compat mech with such a terrible profile, while giving a proper long-range profile to the mech designed to punch through defenses.
Not much PGI can do to fix the TRO artwork, though at the very least they could have made if better rather than worse.

[Lysander Voidrunner]

Sybreed, on 18 June 2013 - 11:49 AM, said:

would be possible if AMS shot down a % of missiles instead of the current system.

My argument was intended to be absurd, it's called demonstration by absurdity (or something like that), you demonstrate that something doesn't make sense by using an absurd, but still true, example.

Here, the absurdity is that a single LRM-10 salvo is completely shot down by 2 AMS, forcing players to either
A) Skip LRMs for something else
B ) Boat LRMs so they don't get all shot down.

Again, I'm refering to bad design choices that PGI took and decided to stick with.

And I'm no BT expert, so I'm gonna ask, how does AMS work in TT? Before haters flame me, remember TT was more balanced than MWO. So, I'm wondering, is AMS supposed to completely nullify a single LRM-10 or 15?

Don't take it baddly, but it sounds as if you're just mad that your missiles are getting shot down. AMS is good the way it's presented now. What's the point of having AMS if it is near useless? None. That's the point of having AMS, that's also the reason why Missile Boating is cheese. It's a build that's good in only certain situations.

I'll actually expand on your complaint with one thing that I think should be implemented, that AMS be destructible in an easy manner. If it gets hit by, say, an AC2, then it should break. After all, it has very little armour on it, it's essentially nothing but an exposed gun with a radar on it, so it should be somewhat senstive to damage. Other than that it's great the way it is.

[arghmace]

Lysander Voidrunner, on 19 June 2013 - 01:26 PM, said:

Don't take it baddly, but it sounds as if you're just mad that your missiles are getting shot down. AMS is good the way it's presented now. What's the point of having AMS if it is near useless? None.

What part of "AMS should shoot down a certain percentage of missiles" don't you understand? If that were the case, AMS would be even better than now against LRM boats. It wouldn't be a nerf to AMS, it would be balancing the game so that boating wouldn't be the only freaking way to play this game.

[Jestun]

Dirus Nigh, on 19 June 2013 - 11:17 AM, said:

No its the AMS. They gave it a damage buff. A single AMS will destroy LRM flights of 5-15. Some times a 15 will get 1-3 missiles to hit the target. One on one a single AMS system will take out enough missiles to defend against an LRM20 effectively. A hand full of missiles may get through, but it will be marginal damage at best. A single ton of AMS ammo can chew through about 2-2.5 tons of ammo for an LRM20. If two flights of 20 LRMs are incoming then 10-12 missiles might get through. However there are factores that will change this.

The distance a flight of LRMs has to travel the more time the AMS has to track and shoot down missiles. At about 500m out an LRM20 flgiht will be taken out, LRM 5-15s are a not issue for the target.

I can confirm this.

My Stalker has 2 LRM10's firing in a single wave. All 20 have been known to be shot down by a single AMS.


I use both AMS and LRMs. I like the current status of AMS since the buff. In the days of ECM vs. ECM (when there were no other ECM counters) LRMs were worthless and there was nothing you could do. However the current power of AMS simply means you need to coordinate with your team and it can be overcome.

And with the incoming missiles HUD icon above the targets name, coordinating is nice and easy even with the limited communication tools that we currently have available.

[Tombstoner]

AMS is fine as is.... but when the laser ams hit and you no longer need ammo something will need to be changed....
also if your trying to squees 20 LRM's out of a 2 or one tube launcher it gives the ams more time to shoot them down....
yes you can shoot 20 lrms out of a narc beacon tube on a raven. i dont recommend it since it's one at a time but funny. the launcher is also ready to use before you stop firing. still if you want a LRM MG....

The way you beat massed AMS is small amounts of missiles and eat there ammo.

[MustrumRidcully]

arghmace, on 20 June 2013 - 07:23 AM, said:

What part of "AMS should shoot down a certain percentage of missiles" don't you understand? If that were the case, AMS would be even better than now against LRM boats. It wouldn't be a nerf to AMS, it would be balancing the game so that boating wouldn't be the only freaking way to play this game.

I get it.

Somethning I always forget: You don't have everyone to get it, too.

[Inkarnus]

AMS vs Streak imo isnt fine alot more streaks
are taken down from it
like on 200m 5 of 6

[Nicholas Carlyle]

I love how riled up people get about LRM's.

The system is broken, with all the extra equipment, counters, single launchers vs. multiple launchers and warnings/travel time/flight paths, it's pretty much impossible to balance.. I'm not saying LRM's aren't viable, I'm not saying LRM's can't kill people. But it's broken.

And the relationship between AMS and LRM's is broken as well.

In a long list of other broken things in this game.

Should it be first on the list to fix? Meh, I don't know. But people saying it's fine are being willfully ignorant.

[Skyfaller]

There is so much disinformation and ignorance in this thread its appalling.

FACT: 1 AMS shoots down 5 to 7 missiles ONLY.


Those who claim their lrm15 volley is being destroyed before it reached the mech is probably seeing his missiles flying over the enemy mech team..if just 2 or 3 mechs have AMS and if they are close together then the combined AMS coverage will stop a SINGLE LRM15 LAUNCHER worth of missiles.

The only time you will ever see a quad-launcher volley stopped in the air is if the enemy team is close together and all the enemy team is composed of dual AMS mechs.

[Jestun]

Skyfaller, on 20 June 2013 - 08:14 AM, said:

There is so much disinformation and ignorance in this thread its appalling.

FACT: 1 AMS shoots down 5 to 7 missiles ONLY.


Those who claim their lrm15 volley is being destroyed before it reached the mech is probably seeing his missiles flying over the enemy mech team..if just 2 or 3 mechs have AMS and if they are close together then the combined AMS coverage will stop a SINGLE LRM15 LAUNCHER worth of missiles.

The only time you will ever see a quad-launcher volley stopped in the air is if the enemy team is close together and all the enemy team is composed of dual AMS mechs.

Source for your fact?

Until I see it your anecdotal evidence is no more valid than anyone elses.

Firstly, I've seen missiles be destroyed and seen the lack of damage to the target.

Secondly, when it comes to multiple mechs there are limits as to how much better it is. The two mechs don't coordinate, their AMS systems just fire on the closest missile within range. A lot of the time that will mean two mechs firing at 1 missile.

[Fate 6]

arghmace, on 20 June 2013 - 07:23 AM, said:

What part of "AMS should shoot down a certain percentage of missiles" don't you understand? If that were the case, AMS would be even better than now against LRM boats. It wouldn't be a nerf to AMS, it would be balancing the game so that boating wouldn't be the only freaking way to play this game.

This would certainly help against boating, but the whole reason we have boating of missiles is because AMS forces people to. Tell me I'm wrong, please. I'd love it if a single LRM10 on a Cent or Dragon could actually land more than half its missiles on an enemy. BTW, 2 AMS on a 5S weighs 1 ton (+ammo) and negates LRM10s which weigh much more.

[Soy]

I seriously do not understand how this thread has so many posts on it.

LRMs are skilless.

AMS is a skilless counter to skilless LRMs.

It's kinda self contained; what the **** else is there to really say about it.

[Jestun]

Soy, on 20 June 2013 - 08:53 AM, said:

I seriously do not understand how this thread has so many posts on it.

LRMs are skilless.

AMS is a skilless counter to skilless LRMs.

It's kinda self contained; what the **** else is there to really say about it.

What weapons do you believe are "skilled"?

Because I have news for you, there is very little skill required to use any of the weapons ingame.

[Nicholas Carlyle]

Soy, on 20 June 2013 - 08:53 AM, said:

I seriously do not understand how this thread has so many posts on it.

LRMs are skilless.

AMS is a skilless counter to skilless LRMs.

It's kinda self contained; what the **** else is there to really say about it.

Can't tell if you are trying to pull a Vassago or not lately.

Let me ask you this Soy, do you ever die to LRM's? Ever?

I know Wispy sure as heck doesn't. I'm wagering you are similar in that regard since I know you are a good player.

[Soy]

Make LRMs go around like parallelogram shaped algorithms
It's the ever ever changing never the same thing changing
Aiming intricate arterial-wall-armor-piercing arrows
Through your spinal
Black rhino through your kevlar
Death star mechwarrior emperor

[One Medic Army]

Tombstoner, on 20 June 2013 - 07:30 AM, said:

AMS is fine as is.... but when the laser ams hit and you no longer need ammo something will need to be changed....
also if your trying to squees 20 LRM's out of a 2 or one tube launcher it gives the ams more time to shoot them down....
yes you can shoot 20 lrms out of a narc beacon tube on a raven. i dont recommend it since it's one at a time but funny. the launcher is also ready to use before you stop firing. still if you want a LRM MG....

The way you beat massed AMS is small amounts of missiles and eat there ammo.

When laser AMS is in-game I will shove an LRM15 in a NARC tube and use it to cause my target massive overheating, plus making it super-easy to figure out where people are.

Jestun, on 20 June 2013 - 08:28 AM, said:

Source for your fact?

Until I see it your anecdotal evidence is no more valid than anyone elses.

Firstly, I've seen missiles be destroyed and seen the lack of damage to the target.

Secondly, when it comes to multiple mechs there are limits as to how much better it is. The two mechs don't coordinate, their AMS systems just fire on the closest missile within range. A lot of the time that will mean two mechs firing at 1 missile.

Known values from game files:
LRM HP: 1 (2 for SSRM)
LRM Speed: 120m/s
AMS DPS: 3.5
AMS Range: 200m (yes, the tooptip in loading screen says 90, but it's 200)

Thus we get (200m)/(120m/s)*(3.5dmg/sec)=5.8333 Damage dealt to volley=5.8333 missiles destroyed for single AMS, single volley, stationary mech.

[Jestun]

One Medic Army, on 20 June 2013 - 10:23 AM, said:

When laser AMS is in-game I will shove an LRM15 in a NARC tube and use it to cause my target massive overheating, plus making it super-easy to figure out where people are.

Known values from game files:
LRM HP: 1 (2 for SSRM)
LRM Speed: 120m/s
AMS DPS: 3.5
AMS Range: 200m (yes, the tooptip in loading screen says 90, but it's 200)

Thus we get (200m)/(120m/s)*(3.5dmg/sec)=5.8333 Damage dealt to volley=5.8333 missiles destroyed for single AMS, single volley, stationary mech.

Do you have damage per shot and fire rate? DPS is fine for discussing the damage over a second of sustained fire but when we are talking about shooting down something with 1HP it's not so useful.

And I assume these figures have been extracted since the AMS buff?

[Whompity]

I think what we're REALLY seeing is that now since LRM's are more viable, more people are mounting AMS. I know I am, on anything remotely slow. Stick 4-5 AMS-toting mechs in a cluster and you've got a pretty good LRMbrella. Working as intended, I'd say. Before LRMs got faster and steeper, I didn't bother with AMS on anything but the slowest assaults (and sometimes even then I didn't bother).

Edited by Olivia Maybach, 20 June 2013 - 11:20 AM.

[Obadiah333]

Who knew AMS would be next in line for the boating criers... people are boating lasers,wah! people are boating ppc's, wah! people are boating ams, wah! MG's will be next. You'll see.

[Havok1978]

ROFL,, my boat is failboat... pls counter the counter so I can continue to boat!.. get a balanced build momo...

LRM's are overpowered and so far from tabletop its not even funny... we cant hide behind cover anymore so we bring AMS... sorry but 30lrms shouldnt get thru 2 AMS if I cant hide behind a building 3 times my height....
nerf the trajectory of LRM's BACK to what it was if you are gonna nerf AMS... or quit being a coward and get off the back edge of the map and ******** LRM's from behind cover to get dmg and kills based off of what your lancemates see.

or take out the heatseeking effect they have when a lock is lost then regained... they arent supposed to turn at a right angle and go around a rock... or slow them back down so we can dodge them... 1 of those things must be done so balance is achieved... in lore the LRM is a semi-guided projectile... SEMI-GUIDED... not a fly-by-wire system...

Edited by Havok1978, 20 June 2013 - 11:32 AM.