81 replies to this topic

[NinetyProof]

LordBraxton, on 18 June 2013 - 12:00 PM, said:

The only advantage of lower tonnage mechs is their ability to move quickly and be harder to hit

Due to mobility ... and not all mechs that *travel* at speed X have the same profile. Some are big, some are small, some are skinny some are squat.

LordBraxton, on 18 June 2013 - 12:00 PM, said:

when you make fast and lightweight heavies, the easiest heavies to hit

you are basically making worthless mechs

yea .. the Cent 9A zombie build is a worthless mech and drops like a rock.

LordBraxton, on 18 June 2013 - 12:00 PM, said:

your signature speaks volumes about your ability to 'think critically'

And that speaks volumes to your character, or lack thereof.

The phrase "pound the table" mean anything to you?

And yes, I just clipped you with a round of rock salt.

[Chavette]

Yeah, the cicada is HUGE compared to the ~5t difference.

[FupDup]

ITT:

[NinetyProof]

xDeityx, on 18 June 2013 - 12:03 PM, said:

I see what you're saying but you are attributing design to incompetence.

I am not saying PGI is not incompetent ... frankly it was probably a "mistake" that they let slip through.

What I am objecting to is that overreaching "Tonnage = Hitbox" argument that is being made.

And don't even make me go down the "We Are Artists and Won't conform to your Silly Notions of Tonnage" route. There are some downright bad chassis in this game ... for various reasons.

[LordBraxton]

NinetyProof, on 18 June 2013 - 12:04 PM, said:

Due to mobility ... and not all mechs that *travel* at speed X have the same profile. Some are big, some are small, some are skinny some are squat.


yea .. the Cent 9A zombie build is a worthless mech and drops like a rock.


And that speaks volumes to your character, or lack thereof.

The phrase "pound the table" mean anything to you?

And yes, I just clipped you with a round of rock salt.

a 60 tonner that is large\fat\tall is cannon fodder.

the centurion is a medium, and zombie CN9-As have sucked since the SRM nerf... idk what game you are playing

and please, tell me what it says about my character?

I care little about your political beliefs, but you are openly expressing that anyone with environmentalist attitudes causes you to feel aggression, to the point of eliciting violence

that is kind of scary.

[NinetyProof]

LordBraxton, on 18 June 2013 - 12:10 PM, said:

a 60 tonner that is large\fat\tall is cannon fodder.
the centurion is a medium, and zombie CN9-As have sucked since the SRM nerf... idk what game you are playing

Cent is fine now ... you might want to pull your head out and give it a try again.

LordBraxton, on 18 June 2013 - 12:00 PM, said:

and please, tell me what it says about my character?

It says your an ignorant fool ... read my last reply that addresses that.

LordBraxton, on 18 June 2013 - 12:00 PM, said:

I care little about your political beliefs, but you are openly expressing that anyone with environmentalist attitudes causes you to feel aggression, to the point of eliciting violence that is kind of scary.

More ignorance ... and reading comprehension issues? If your on my lawn, your breaking the law ... or did you actually miss that point?

And I think you missed the entire "pound the table" reference. I sometimes I forgot that I am talking to products of the public school system (of which I am one, but was cured many many years ago).

Let me spell it out ... your character is deeply flawed in that you went to attacking me when you felt challenged.

[NinetyProof]

LordBraxton, on 18 June 2013 - 12:14 PM, said:

yeah of course my bad, I'm Ignorant for finding politically influenced violent sentiments abhorrent

Yawn ... feigned indignation ... next ...

LordBraxton, on 18 June 2013 - 12:00 PM, said:

if that is supposed to be an 'ironic' signature, it isn't going to come across that way to many people, so you should probably change it.

It got a rise out of you? mission accomplished. I really don't care what YOU think ... trust me.

LordBraxton, on 18 June 2013 - 12:00 PM, said:

if you really DO want to shoot environmentalists with rock salt, I would suggest professional help

Your a fool ... and a delusional one at that.

[armyof1]

A single mindless guy arguing for badly sized mechs aside, it would be really interesting to see one Quickdraw and another Heavy side by side.

[RG Notch]

This thread is going places, like K town!

[FupDup]

Thread is now politics. Discuss.

[AntiCitizenJuan]

armyof1, on 18 June 2013 - 12:26 PM, said:

A single mindless guy arguing for badly sized mechs aside, it would be really interesting to see one Quickdraw and another Heavy side by side.

"Uh oh, I can't think of an argument against it. Better resort to ad hominem!"

The thing is gigantic. It's as tall as an Awesome for gods sake, and almost as wide.

[armyof1]

AntiCitizenJuan, on 18 June 2013 - 12:28 PM, said:

"Uh oh, I can't think of an argument against it. Better resort to ad hominem!"

The thing is gigantic. It's as tall as an Awesome for gods sake, and almost as wide.

I don't think you caught on who I was referring to, because it's not you. I'm not saying I don't believe you, I just want to see for myself to make a comparison. Actually I'm going to play a few games and hope I can get a QD in my team to have a better look.

Edited by armyof1, 18 June 2013 - 12:31 PM.

[LordBraxton]

AntiCitizenJuan, on 18 June 2013 - 12:28 PM, said:

"Uh oh, I can't think of an argument against it. Better resort to ad hominem!"

The thing is gigantic. It's as tall as an Awesome for gods sake, and almost as wide.

this, I won't feed the troll anymore.

quickdraw has a bullet magnet torso just like the dragon, except it isnt even safe to use XLs because all 3 torso sections are huge and easy to pick out

[AntiCitizenJuan]

armyof1, on 18 June 2013 - 12:30 PM, said:

I don't think you caught on who I was referring to, because it's not you. I'm not saying I don't believe you, I just want to see for myself to make a comparison. Actually I'm going to play a few games and hope I can get a QD in my team to have a better look.

I was referring to that same someone also, sorry for the mix up.

And you'll see, shortly

[NinetyProof]

LordBraxton, on 18 June 2013 - 12:33 PM, said:

this, I won't feed the troll anymore.

Wow ... this ... coming from the guy that threw the first stone. What a piece of work.

As army said ... wait till it comes out and try it ... it might have some redeeming qualities that won't be seen till it's used. Then again, it could just be another bad mech that nobody uses ... or nobody that is any good uses.

[xDeityx]

NinetyProof, on 18 June 2013 - 12:08 PM, said:

I am not saying PGI is not incompetent ... frankly it was probably a "mistake" that they let slip through.

What I am objecting to is that overreaching "Tonnage = Hitbox" argument that is being made.

And don't even make me go down the "We Are Artists and Won't conform to your Silly Notions of Tonnage" route. There are some downright bad chassis in this game ... for various reasons.

The tonnage = hitbox (or size) argument is being stated simply because we don't trust PGI to be able to add another unnecessary layer of complexity to their balancing when it is already too complicated for them.

If PGI had proven their ability to balance I think we'd be all for them experimenting with things like this, but since they have proven to be mediocre at best we'd prefer that they just stick to keeping things simple. The most logical way to keep the balance undisturbed by size across differing weights is to have some conformity so that slightly heavier = slightly bigger. And bigger doesn't necessarily have to mean taller. Height, width, and depth all come into play.

Before I left the MW:LL team we were throwing an idea around of making a 'mech's armor values be influenced by its "boxiness" and size. So for example the rectangular Awesome would get an armor boost while a Warhammer (a relatively sleek design in MW:LL) would be left at the default armor. Toth (one of the lead designers) was thinking about coming up with an algorith that would draw a square around a 'mechs profile and then however much of the square was filled would determine how much of an armor boost it got. If the whole square was filled, you got a boost. If barely any of it was filled, you got nothing or even a penalty. This idea never made it past the conceptual stage unfortunately.

[armyof1]

AntiCitizenJuan, on 18 June 2013 - 12:37 PM, said:

I was referring to that same someone also, sorry for the mix up.

And you'll see, shortly

No problem. If only the game would finish patching instead of crashing halfway through.

[Livewyr]

I have a serious gripe with this whole concept.

Atlases are far too heavy, they need to spread the tonnage around. We cannot simply give the light class and the upper medium class a stimulus height! Obviously trickle-down tonnage isn't working; even though the medium class appears on the surface to be as heavy as the upper assault class, clearly when the rubber meets the road, it is shown for nothing more than a facade. The lower light class is being inflated and getting attacks as though it were upper medium class, but still only having lower light tonnage. I say we implement tonnage distribution, give the inflated medium class some real tonnage to work with. Atlases already have more tonnage than they know what to do with. We need to stimulate the medium class with REAL tonnage, not this inflated attacks bracket. When the light class fears the assault class, there is tyranny, when the assault class fears the light class, there is liberty!

I'm Livewyr, for real tonnage we can believe in.

Edited by Livewyr, 18 June 2013 - 12:56 PM.

[Syllogy]

Where is your proof that it is killing balance?

[LordBraxton]

Syllogy, on 18 June 2013 - 12:57 PM, said:

Where is your proof that it is killing balance?

perhaps internal balance in the mech lineup would be more accurate?

the proof is that you see

Atlas
Highlanders
Stalkers
Cataphracts
Jagers

way more than other chassis

it is because they can carry heavy loadouts and have competitive hitboxes