77 replies to this topic

[MadTulip]

waiting for SRM damage 1.5-> 2.0 since LRM apocalypse which is 4month ago.
just a little bump on that.

[MadTulip]

it seems like most people dont care much. imo the SRM is a good counter against snipers which have a high burst but then a long cooldown as well (it is OP,yes. no wonder as it has THE SAME damage/heat ratio as a medium laser, dont you guys have a calculator over there? not to mention the imense statistics. interpreting those once would tell you at once how to adjust each weapons damage without testing it first on the public. but i guess statistics is something you dont believe in. other topic, anyway.).

atm the only brawling weapon that is usefull is the AC20. similar to the PPC but with justified high spot damage due to short range imo. The SRM which already spreads the damage lacks punch for tonns atm. i dont get why the damage was reduced that much during LRM apocalypse but not set back together with the LRMs afterwards.

[Sneaky B]

Yip, SRM's are immensely underpowered in damage. They aren't even that accurate to begin with :/

[Aaron45]

MadTulip, on 18 June 2013 - 03:00 PM, said:

waiting for SRM damage 1.5-> 2.0 since LRM apocalypse which is 4month ago.
just a little bump on that.

Honestly i love all my srm +20 mechs. Still get 500 to 1000+ dmg with them. I dont know why they should be buffed but i wouldnt deny it. The only problem would be that soo many people would build srm high alpha builds.
There are allways people who want to abuse any specific weapons goodness. Then you would see again nerf the srm posts on the forum.

So just leave them as they are.

With artemis a srm6 (4 tons+ 1 ton ammo) is like a lbx10 (9 dmg for one srm6 burst).

Just keep that in your mind- do your maths before demanding anything to be buffed.

Edited by Legolaas, 18 June 2013 - 09:07 PM.

[Tolkien]

Legolaas, on 18 June 2013 - 09:03 PM, said:

Honestly i love all my srm +20 mechs. Still get 500 to 1000+ dmg with them. I dont know why they should be buffed but i wouldnt deny it. The only problem would be that soo many people would build srm high alpha builds.
There are allways people who want to abuse any specific weapons goodness. Then you would see again nerf the srm posts on the forum.

So just leave them as they are.

With artemis a srm6 (4 tons+ 1 ton ammo) is like a lbx10 (9 dmg for one srm6 burst).

Just keep that in your mind- do your maths before demanding anything to be buffed.

In fairness the LBX10 is not a good weapon at all, and this is well known. There's little urgency to fix it though since in that weight/size range the AC10, AC5, UAC5 are all available +/- a ton and a crit or so. While they don't spray like the LBX does, that's part of the reason the LBX is lacklustre to begin with.

With SRMs being a bit weak though you have the very limited choices for short/medium range missiles of not using your missile hardpoint(s) or going to streaks.

So while I agree that the LBX10 is in more need of love numerically, I think it's having a smaller effect on game balance than the SRM problems.

P.S. I took an LBX10 onto the testing range last week to see how the new clustering was helping.... it took half a ton of ammo to down a commando at moderate range, and the projectile flight time is too slow to make hits 'easy' even with the spread.

[MadTulip]

People talk about damage per ton which is due to the limited hardpoints not a measurement for quality of a weapon. You can on nearly every design bring enough weapons so it does overheat with the maximum ammount of DHS possible. What is important is in the first place is therefor damage per heat. Ill take the medium laser as the middle and anchor point of weapon balancing.
The second point is the way the damage is applied spatial and temporal. a ppc applies it in one spot. MPL in 3 spots, a medium laser in 5 spots and a LB10X in 10 spots. longer firing intervall on same DPH means higher damage to the spot therefor the temporal aspect is the same as the spatial.
Range is the third important point but difficult to discuss in numbers due to gameplay/maps/ strategy and stuff.
Weight is about the last important thing as mentioned above. ACs and Gauss are the extremes here where it might come to the point that you dont have enough tons for all you B hardpoints to fit whichever you like of them, givenit has an impact but comparable limited.

little damage per heat overview:

ML_DPH = 1.25
PPC_DPH = 1.25 (this is just plain rediculusly OP)
SRM6_DPH = 2.25
LRM_20_DPH = 3.66
LB10X_DPH = 5

The PPC is as heat efficient as a medium laser. it has higher range, has 5 times higher damage on spot ratio spatial and 4/3 higher damage on spot temporal ratio. WTF? its about 6.66 times better then an ML if you can just carry it.

The SRM spreads 33% less then the LB10X (1dmg per pellet vs 1,5 damage per missile). while beeing less then half in DPH. and the LB 10x is due to its spread not even a good weapon.

in games with 2*AC20s i get up to 900 damage. they are all on spot. if youu get 1k damage with srms you didnt kill 5, you killed 2 and damaged 6 in unneccessary locations.

Then spread of the weapon is not at all taken into account at the moment which is the reason why ppcs are so strong and why SRMs, LB10X and LRMs can do a lot more damage per heat or tonn then ppc, gauss or single shot ACs while still beeing compareable good. It is a little bit hard to express that in numbers but in the beginning of this post i outlined it a bit (1 spot PPC, 5 spots ML and so on). games where people aim for locations rathern then spray and pray are dominated by the spatial and temporal spread of the weapon. a PPC fires slower and doesnt spread compared to an ML. while having the same DPH both of those factors just benefit the usefullness of it. SRMs spread a lot and need high damage to achiev comparable kill ability. we are not talking about plain spray and pray damage here. by the way. PPCs are still as good as a Medium laser if you just hit the mech and dont aim at all at locations - rediculous.

Edited by MadTulip, 19 June 2013 - 11:48 AM.

[bonapartist1]

i too regret LRM apocalypse.

SSRM apocalypse ongoing for over 6 months now.

RIP good gameplay.

[deforce]

Legolaas, on 18 June 2013 - 09:03 PM, said:

Honestly i love all my srm +20 mechs. Still get 500 to 1000+ dmg with them. I dont know why they should be buffed but i wouldnt deny it. The only problem would be that soo many people would build srm high alpha builds.
There are allways people who want to abuse any specific weapons goodness. Then you would see again nerf the srm posts on the forum.

So just leave them as they are.

With artemis a srm6 (4 tons+ 1 ton ammo) is like a lbx10 (9 dmg for one srm6 burst).

Just keep that in your mind- do your maths before demanding anything to be buffed.

you must be playing terribad people then. currently the only thing that kills a sniper is more snipers.


the only SRM based mech I would even think of taking currently is a cent, and not because SRM's do anywehre near decent damage, but only because it has hitboxes broken as shiet and takes forever to kill.

[bonapartist1]

SRM needs a slight buff, LRM and SSRM need a serious debuff. Obviously, I would think.

I do use the missile equipped jagermech with 4x SRM6 and 2X large lasers. It's a very effective setup and is great fun as a shotgunning type of mech. With the xl I cram in and speedboost it goes roughly 85kph so moving into and out of confilct to let out a full alpha strike is very doable.

[Asmosis]

damage is pretty poor, nobody is getting 1k damage with solely srms unless they are stripping afk assult mechs on a regular basis.

Currently ssrm2 > srm6 since 2 missiles in Ct is better than 6 missiles spread around, not even considering the extra heat/tonnage. When the ssrm bones get fixed though that weapon will be redundant without a similar damage boost. at that point it needs the 2.5 damage, otherwise it fairs poorly vs medium lasers being 1.5 tons heavier and doing 40% less damage otherwise.

[bonapartist1]

Just got 850 damage with 4 kills and 2 assists with the Jager build I mentioned. It has a crushing 70 point alpha strike and reasonable heat while going 86.5.

[Vermaxx]

SRM are wildly variable. They do next to nothing to light mechs, and since no one can trip light mechs OR aim below the cockpit window reliably, people take SSRM to deal with lights. Against a large mech with slower moving hitboxes, yeah, concentrated SRM fire can do damage. It no longer feels competitive though.

I agree that if splash was out of whack, it needs to get fixed. Unfortunately, if the game developed in such a way where "imbalanced" SRM were fitting into the game very well, they need to stay that way. That or they need to prioritize rebuilding the 'slip and fall' mechanics and loading them back in, and really look at how light mech hitboxes work.

[xZaOx]

SRMS need to be fixed asap. Sad that they put flamers and mg's as more of a priority.

[bonapartist1]

xZaOx, on 19 June 2013 - 07:23 PM, said:

SRMS need to be fixed asap. Sad that they put flamers and mg's as more of a priority.

Given that SRM is still somewhat viable and MG and Flamer never were and still aren't, they should be the priority.

[Tolkien]

Machine guns are getting closer to viability - recent testing shows though that they don't actually fire at 10 rounds per second... closer to 8, and apparently unstable between 7 and 13.... maybe if they fix them to fire at 10.0 and tighten their spread they will be a competent choice in practice.

Flamer mechanics on the other hand seem to be an example of falling in love with a design concept that just doesn't work. Low damage, and does more heat to the user than to the target - no thanks.

[St4LkeRxF]

SRMs need change in flight path because now they fly like they have JJ shake, damage can stay as it is if they lower heat.

And please stop with machine gun buff in every single thread, MGs should do damage only to internals not to strip armor and if you say they don't you are wrong or at least got no idea how to use them.

Flamers you need to consider as support weapon not your main weapon, but no you want to boat them to be able to overheat every mech in 10 seconds.

[Tolkien]

St4LkeRxF, on 20 June 2013 - 12:18 AM, said:

...MGs should do damage only to internals not to strip armor and if you say they don't you are wrong or at least got no idea how to use them.

They tried this concept for a long time and no one used them. Stripping internals in this game is not nearly a big enough benefit to have to carry explosive ammo for a gun that does no damage. If engine crits/damage mattered it would have been great just doing 'good crits' but they already have game problems with mechs dying too fast from getting their centre blown out.

With flamers I agree that stun locking is bad, but why would anyone use a flamer now? I read about someone doing a test with an energy boat hunchback (4sp?) full of flamers. They overheated themselves before they could overheat a commando with 10 heatsinks.

A weapon has to be worth using based on its risk/reward and flamers are not worth it.

[armyof1]

bonapartist1, on 19 June 2013 - 09:48 PM, said:

Given that SRM is still somewhat viable and MG and Flamer never were and still aren't, they should be the priority.

Depends on what you mean with somewhat viable. If you mean might as well bring medium lasers, then you're right.

[John MatriX82]

Yes SRMs aren't a good option.. I've been trying a QD with 3xSRM4's and targets barely got orangish even shooting them up close. I want the old srm concentration flight pattern back and DMG should be bumped at least to 2.0 per missile, otherwise brawling isn't an option anymore and the only way is LRM in the majority of games or PPCs/Gauss only hell in high elo ones.

[EndoDrake 263]

SRMs don't need as much of a buff as a -fix-. Ever since the SRM HSR patch hit, I've had wildly variable results - sometimes they function as expected, but there'd been mutliple times I've shot at and hit an enemy mech and simply done little to no damage. I've seen a legged Cicada keep on hobbling after three hits from a 4xSRM6 salvo.

That said, SRMs could do with a buff indeed - they're doing frankly pitiful amounts of damage. Comparing them to an LB-X/10 AC isn't really viable since the LB-X is a terrible weapon. The AC/20 is about the only viable brawling weapon in the game at the moment, so we really don't see SRMs around at all because everybody's sniping with gausses and PPCs. Not saying that gauss/ppc needs a nerf, I could do with the other guns being buffed to about on par with them.. assuming they worked correctly.