77 replies to this topic

[Tolkien]

Endo I think part of this weakness of SRMs has been hit detection issues that should be patched later today.

[Aaron45]

deforce, on 19 June 2013 - 04:06 PM, said:

you must be playing terribad people then. currently the only thing that kills a sniper is more snipers.


the only SRM based mech I would even think of taking currently is a cent, and not because SRM's do anywehre near decent damage, but only because it has hitboxes broken as shiet and takes forever to kill.

LOOL get close to a sniper mech and bang it with your srm build. HGN 733, Stalkers with srms, and many moar soo deadly srm mechs.

Just dont be a sniper fenboi. Once you are in Range you can blow up all mechs in front of you with a good srm+ Artemis build. Use your head and flank the ennemy. Avoid open fields.

You just need nuts to moove for a close range brawl. But people tend to like sniper boating as it gives them the feeling of beeing safe due to they are not close to the ennemy. Just cheezy and lame.

Tolkien, on 18 June 2013 - 11:15 PM, said:

In fairness the LBX10 is not a good weapon at all, and this is well known. There's little urgency to fix it though since in that weight/size range the AC10, AC5, UAC5 are all available +/- a ton and a crit or so. While they don't spray like the LBX does, that's part of the reason the LBX is lacklustre to begin with.

With SRMs being a bit weak though you have the very limited choices for short/medium range missiles of not using your missile hardpoint(s) or going to streaks.

So while I agree that the LBX10 is in more need of love numerically, I think it's having a smaller effect on game balance than the SRM problems.

P.S. I took an LBX10 onto the testing range last week to see how the new clustering was helping.... it took half a ton of ammo to down a commando at moderate range, and the projectile flight time is too slow to make hits 'easy' even with the spread.

Compare an srm 6 with a large lazer and you will be suprized that it beats the large lazer in all ways- except the range. People like you are just habited to the old super OP srm damage + splash damage. Theres nothing wrong with the srm. And lbx 10 works in my point pretty well aswell. It just needs 4 instead of 10 bullets.

Edited by Legolaas, 20 June 2013 - 05:20 AM.

[Tolkien]

Legolaas, on 20 June 2013 - 05:23 AM, said:

LOOL get close to a sniper mech and bang it with your srm build. HGN 733, Stalkers with srms, and many moar soo deadly srm mechs.

Just dont be a sniper fenboi. Once you are in Range you can blow up all mechs in front of you with a good srm+ Artemis build. Use your head and flank the ennemy. Avoid open fields.

You just need nuts to moove for a close range brawl. But people tend to like sniper boating as it gives them the feeling of beeing safe due to they are not close to the ennemy. Just cheezy and lame.


Compare an srm 6 with a large lazer and you will be suprized that it beats the large lazer in all ways- except the range. People like you are just habited to the old super OP srm damage + splash damage. Theres nothing wrong with the srm. And lbx 10 works in my point pretty well aswell. It just needs 4 instead of 10 bullets.

Just to nit pick you said it beats a large laser in all ways except the range. The SRM also has the disadvantages of needing ammo and that ammo being explosive. It's hard to take the point seriously when you leave these out.

LBX10 I just haven't enjoyed using, so while I'm glad someone does, I am not yet sold on using it.

Edited by Tolkien, 20 June 2013 - 05:35 AM.

[Aaron45]

Tolkien, on 20 June 2013 - 05:34 AM, said:

Just to nit pick you said it beats a large laser in all ways except the range. The SRM also has the disadvantages of needing ammo and that ammo being explosive. It's hard to take the point seriously when you leave these out.

LBX10 I just haven't enjoyed using, so while I'm glad someone does, I am not yet sold on using it.

LOOOL I rarely run out with my 5 tons for my srm 24 build. Its ridiculous as its tonnage with artemis and 1 ton ammo is 5 Tons. I cant take your point serious- you just want a OP weapon. Then people will rage the Forum for: " SrMS toooo OP- it needs a nerf". Also you need Doubble Heatsinks for Largelazers especially if you have moar than 3 of thems. So the Srm definetelly beats the Largelazer. And no one is asking for a Large lazer buff eh?

PFF

Edited by Legolaas, 20 June 2013 - 05:46 AM.

[Tolkien]

Quote

I cant take your point serious- you just want a OP weapon.

You're making it hard to have a pleasant conversation here - I haven't been killed by SRMs lately, nor do I use them much. The fact that they're not being used by many opponents tells me they are not risk/reward/effectiveness balanced and need adjustment.

Quote

So the Srm definetelly beats the Largelazer. And no one is asking for a Large lazer buff eh?

That's down to personal preference but I don't think it's cut and dried that the SRM beats large lasers across the board. It's far far easier to put damage on a specific weak spot of the enemy with the large laser than the SRMs, and the 270m range limit means you are in harms way to use them. SRMs like LRMs are one of those weapons where you can put up a good damage number, but can't control where the enemy gets hit.

I would rather do 500 dmg with directed fire weapons than 1000 with missiles (except maybe the streak that currently goes for the middle almost every time).

[Aaron45]

Tolkien, on 20 June 2013 - 05:50 AM, said:

You're making it hard to have a pleasant conversation here


That's down to personal preference but ...

Who started the "i cant take your point serious? Eating your own words taste different then speaking them out eh? Hilarious.


Now the fact that the srm beats the large lazer by numbers like dps heat and so on is a personal preference eh? Pointless to argue with you as i remember you as a so called "leader" or what ever on the nerf the ecm topic. Weeks later i saw you grinding in a raven 3 l with ecm. Just ridiculous to argue with ppl like you


Note i still see many srms in game. Even srm lights.

"he doesnt sees srms" just LOOOL

Edited by Legolaas, 20 June 2013 - 06:01 AM.

[Tolkien]

Quote

Who started the "i cant take your point serious? Eating your own words taste different then speaking them out eh? Hilarious.


Now the fact that the srm beats the large lazer by numbers like dps heat and so on is a personal preference eh?

Not at all, and I welcome the criticism if it's in good faith. What makes me suspicious of you is that you still haven't acknowledged that the ammo explosions, range, random flight path and the like offset the 'on paper' stats lead of the SRM.

Quote

Pointless to argue with you as i remember you as a so called "leader" or what ever on the nerf the ecm topic. Weeks later i saw you grinding in a raven 3 l with ecm.

Heh, if you haven't read the forums much I can see how you would think this. I was a critic of ECM and my question in ask the devs did serve as a lightning rod for feedback. My grinding a Craven 3L was to bring focus of the devs to the exploit that was that mech paired with ecm and streaks.

See here: http://mwomercs.com/...ech-hands-down/

here's a quote where I describe the mech and piloting it:

Quote

I call my and other Raven 3Ls the Craven 3L because the current state of the game reflects it well: (http://www.thefreedi...nary.com/craven craven [ˈkreɪvən] adj cowardly; mean-spirited )

So, I was calling my own piloting of that mech cowardly and mean spirited - clearly I try not to take myself too seriously

But when you say

Quote

Just ridiculous to argue with ppl like you

I have to disagree... I try to be a reasonable and thoughtful guy if you are willing to have a respectful conversation.

Edited by Tolkien, 20 June 2013 - 06:08 AM.

[Aaron45]

I cant have a respectful and nice conversation with ppl like you who tend to say untrue stuff. The Srm beats the Large Lazer.
Do you think respecting People means to tell them untrue stuff?

The ammo explosion happens ridiculously less. Maybe one of 30 deaths. Even thou just get a 0,5 ton case then. And your Ammo point is just hilarious as you need for a 3+ Large lazer build at least as much doubble heatsinks as you need ammo for the srms. A srm 6 weights 3 tons + ammo (i personally prefer artemis = 1 moar ton)

Edited by Legolaas, 20 June 2013 - 06:21 AM.

[armyof1]

If someone consistently can get close enough to opponents to blast them with SRMs with a Highlander then that person have pretty bad opponents, I mean with Seismic module you'll never get within 400m without anyone seeing you. And if you're running a long-range build you'll have plenty of time to shoot at something that big and slow as a Highlander closing the distance. There's no way SRMs are good enough as they are currently unless you get to play guys that really don't know what they are doing.

Edited by armyof1, 20 June 2013 - 06:24 AM.

[Aaron45]

armyof1, on 20 June 2013 - 06:23 AM, said:

If someone consistently can get close enough to opponents to blast them with SRMs with a Highlander then that person have pretty bad opponents, I mean with Seismic module you'll never get within 400m without anyone seeing you. And if you're running a long-range build you'll have plenty of time to shoot at something that big and slow as a Highlander closing the distance. There's no way SRMs are good enough as they are currently unless you get to play guys that really don't know what they are doing.

You might not be able to get close to the ennemy. Iam- and i see soo many people getting close to the ennemy. Mosts fights end in a close range fight. Actually almost all of my matches have close range brawls

[armyof1]

Legolaas, on 20 June 2013 - 06:26 AM, said:

You might not be able to get close to the ennemy. Iam- and i see soo many people getting close to the ennemy. Mosts fights end in a close range fight. Actually almost all of my matches have close range brawls

As I was saying, I don't think your opponents are that good to be honest if you see that often.

[Aaron45]

armyof1, on 20 June 2013 - 06:28 AM, said:

As I was saying, I don't think your opponents are that good to be honest if you see that often.

LOL, i personally never saw a match which ended without any close range brawl. Maybe you only have anxious far range ennemies. Or maybe its you who never gets into the close range fights? I personally think its not possible but... nvm.

Edited by Legolaas, 20 June 2013 - 06:33 AM.

[armyof1]

Legolaas, on 20 June 2013 - 06:31 AM, said:

LOL, i personally never saw a match which ended without a close range brawl. Maybe you only have anxious far range ennemies. Or maybe its you who never gets into the close range fights? I personally think its not possible but... nvm.

Sure it happens towards the end of a match that there are some close range fighting, but by then the team with more/better snipers have already killed off a few and damaged most of the others, and the match is just about over. To get in a brawl with almost undamaged mechs, that rarely happens now with all the weapons to be effective at range we have currently, the Seismic that will guarantee no one can sneak within 400m of you etc.

[Aaron45]

armyof1, on 20 June 2013 - 06:36 AM, said:

Sure it happens towards the end of a match that there are some close range fighting, but by then the team with more/better snipers have already killed off a few and damaged most of the others, and the match is just about over. To get in a brawl with almost undamaged mechs, that rarely happens now with all the weapons to be effective at range we have currently, the Seismic that will guarantee no one can sneak within 400m of you etc.

With a srm build you just need to wait if you are not good by sneaking ppl. Of course ppl can detect a mech on their seismic but do you think they do know that you have srms?

Ok you are not that good by sneaking ppl. Then just wait the ennemy team will rush you soon or later. ppcs are not guaranteed win builds as a clever team uses cover.

And the fact that you have srms doesnt means that you are not allowed to have any long range weapon. Not everything is black and white. Balance your mechs

Edited by Legolaas, 20 June 2013 - 06:48 AM.

[armyof1]

Legolaas, on 20 June 2013 - 06:39 AM, said:

With a srm build you just need to wait if you are not good by sneaking ppl. Of course ppl can detect a mech on their seismic but do you think they do know that you have srms?

Ok you are not that good by sneaking ppl. Then just wait the ennemy team will rush you soon or later. ppcs are not guaranteed win builds as a clever team uses cover.

And the fact that you have srms doesnt means that you dont have any long range weapon. Not everything is black and white. Balance your mechs

Uhh if I run mainly a long-range build I don't care who gets close to me from the side I'll move away and fire at them from a distance. Either way I'll make sure you won't get close, so whether you have srms or ssrms or an LBX, you won't get to sneak up and get close, because I can see you clearly with Seismic.

With people having Seismic there is no sneaking up on people, period. You can get around with perfect cover, I can still see you every step within 400m. And If I play long range no way in heck am I going to rush you.

If you take a bunch of srms with artemis and ammo, you will most certainly carry less long range weapons. So unless you try to get close, you are not as well equipped as someone using long range weapons and stay at a distance. Sure you can rush me, but it's not like I'm stupid enough to stand all alone. Right now long range is just superior and unless your team are all willing to rush up close and are all well equipped for short range fighting, the better long range shooters win. Because even when you do get close you're not doing that much more damage than me with srms against my large lasers and ppc. That's why srms are bad right now.

[Aaron45]

armyof1, on 20 June 2013 - 06:57 AM, said:

Uhh if I run mainly a long-range build I don't care who gets close to me from the side I'll move away and fire at them from a distance. Either way I'll make sure you won't get close, so whether you have srms or ssrms or an LBX, you won't get to sneak up and get close, because I can see you clearly with Seismic.

With people having Seismic there is no sneaking up on people, period. You can get around with perfect cover, I can still see you every step within 400m. And If I play long range no way in heck am I going to rush you.

If you see me on your seismic =400 meters- you have 130 meters time. then my srms will be within range. 130= several seconds

If you take a bunch of srms with artemis and ammo, you will most certainly carry less long range weapons. So unless you try to get close, you are not as well equipped as someone using long range weapons and stay at a distance. Sure you can rush me, but it's not like I'm stupid enough to stand all alone. Right now long range is just superior and unless your team are all willing to rush up close and are all well equipped for short range fighting, the better long range shooters win. Because even when you do get close you're not doing that much more damage than me with srms against my large lasers and ppc. That's why srms are bad right now.

i´d say iam not stupid enuff to charge or sneak/flank by my own into a group. I do see how many ennemies are in front of me. Seismic. 3 srms+ ammo means like 12-16 tons. An atlas Stalker Highlander can have lots of long range weapons.

Even thou can you allways watch your minimap while you try to aim at a guy whos far away?



If you see me on your seismic =400 meters- you have 130 meters time. then my srms will be within range. 130= several seconds

Lets consider you are alone somewhere and iam flanking you. I saw you do run only ppc´s on your - lets say - stalker. Even if you run away then iam still able to shoot at you with my long range weapons and still keep rushing towards you. You are running away right? can you effort to show me your back for soo long? you shhot at me with your ppcs. can you effort to shoot more than 2-3 alphas on a hot map before iam close to you? Ans still, i can charge towards you by using cover right? i dont have to charge on an open field.nvm just play your own playstyle. I just wanted to disagree to all the people who said srms are useless and need a buff. Iam happy with them

Edited by Legolaas, 20 June 2013 - 07:13 AM.

[armyof1]

Legolaas, on 20 June 2013 - 07:03 AM, said:

i´d say iam not stupid enuff to charge or sneak/flank by my own into a group. I do see how many ennemies are in front of me. Seismic. 3 srms+ ammo means like 12-16 tons. An atlas Stalker Highlander can have lots of long range weapons.

Lets consider you are alone somewhere and iam flanking you. I saw you do run only ppc´s on your - lets say - stalker. Even if you run away then iam still able to shoot at you with my long range weapons and still keep rushing towards you. You are running away right? can you effort to show me your back for soo long? you shhot at me with your ppcs. can you effort to shoot more than 2-3 alphas on a hot map before iam close to you? Ans still, i can charge towards you by using cover right? i dont have to charge on an open field.nvm just play your own playstyle. I just wanted to disagree to all the people who said srms are useless and need a buff. Iam happy with them

Man I'm not going to run right out in the open, I'll put hills and buildings between whoever is slowly trying to get close in an assault. I run a Dragon that can go 89 kph, no way an Assault can get close to me with SRMs without getting shot a bunch of times first.

Well I guess we are seeing quite different kind of games, I seldom see matches where running a bunch of short-range weapons is effective, because someone trying to close distance in a slow mech get shot enough to be badly damaged before they get close and by then they don't stand much chance anymore. That's what I see all the time. So SRMs as weak as they are means it doesn't help much getting close.

[Aaron45]

armyof1, on 20 June 2013 - 07:17 AM, said:

Man I'm not going to run right out in the open, I'll put hills and buildings between whoever is slowly trying to get close in an assault. I run a Dragon that can go 89 kph, no way an Assault can get close to me with SRMs without getting shot a bunch of times first.

Well I guess we are seeing quite different kind of games, I seldom see matches where running a bunch of short-range weapons is effective, because someone trying to close distance in a slow mech get shot enough to be badly damaged before they get close and by then they don't stand much chance anymore. That's what I see all the time. So SRMs as weak as they are means it doesn't help much getting close.

Then its a question about: are close Range Weapons in generally usefull if people spam the map with ppcs. Its a ppc problem then. Instead asking for a srm buff you guys should demand a ppc nerf.Even if they would buff srms a bit, you still might not use them because you like to hide hit and run.

[armyof1]

Legolaas, on 20 June 2013 - 07:26 AM, said:

Then its a question about: are close Range Weapons in generally usefull if people spam the map with ppcs. Its a ppc problem then. Instead asking for a srm buff you guys should demand a ppc nerf.Even if they would buff srms a bit, you still might not use them because you like to hide hit and run.

Well I'd rather have 3 medium lasers than 3 srm4 as they are currently. Easier to hit, possible to concentrate fire if you can aim and not 0 damage outside 270m. It used to be the Hunchback 4SP could sometimes be better than the 4P if you are close and can aim well with SRMs, now the 4SP is just worse.

Edited by armyof1, 20 June 2013 - 07:36 AM.

[Aaron45]

armyof1, on 20 June 2013 - 07:33 AM, said:

Well I'd rather have 3 medium lasers than 3 srm4 as they are currently. Easier to hit, possible to concentrate fire if you can aim etc.

But Hardpoints are Limited right? you cant have 10 medium lazers to do effective damage. Ppcs and medium lazers might not a good combination due to the heat. What are you going to do with you missile hardpoints then? Lrms? can a medium effort a lrm 20 or moar and other effective good weapons? Running lrms can be very uneffective under 180 meters . Its all a question about preferences and balanced mechs.



But calling a srm useless is just not true and its unfair

Edited by Legolaas, 20 June 2013 - 07:40 AM.