77 replies to this topic

[armyof1]

Legolaas, on 20 June 2013 - 07:36 AM, said:

But Hardpoints are Limited right? you cant have 10 medium lazers to do effective damage. Ppcs and medium lazers might not a good combination due to the heat. What are you going to do with you missile hardpoints then? Lrms? can a medium effort a lrm 20 or moar and other effective good weapons? Its all a question about preferences and balanced mechs.

But calling a srm useless is just not true and its unfair

You end up not using mechs that rely on SRMs as energy variants are just better. Another option is you can get a BAP and use streaks instead that are still effective because they hunt the CT, just that dumb-fire missiles are boring as heck.

Calling SRMs bad right now is both fair and accurate.

Edited by armyof1, 20 June 2013 - 07:41 AM.

[Aaron45]

armyof1, on 20 June 2013 - 07:41 AM, said:

You end up not using mechs that rely on SRMs as energy variants are just better. Another option is you can get a BAP and use streaks instead that are still effective because they hunt the CT, just that dumb-fire missiles are boring as heck.

Calling SRMs bad right now is both fair and accurate.

Streaks do only 3 damage. The Bap will only help you within 140 meters against a ecm mech.And its exclusive ct hit will be gone soon. I personally prefer a balanced hardpointed mech with lazers and missiles over an only lazer variants as it appears to be too hot

Edited by Legolaas, 20 June 2013 - 07:45 AM.

[armyof1]

Legolaas, on 20 June 2013 - 07:44 AM, said:

Streaks do only 3 damage. And its exclusive ct hit will be gone soon. I personally prefer a balanced hardpointed mech with lazers and missiles over an only lazer variants as it appears to be too hot

Still SSRMs are going for CT now and it is overall a better weapon than SRMs for the weight even if you can aim fairly well with SRMs which is just wrong.

Sure we all prefer different things, but lasers are better than SRMs because of better range and the chance to focus damage with decent aim. Just take a short break now and then to cool down behind cover, that's all.

[Aaron45]

armyof1, on 20 June 2013 - 07:49 AM, said:

Still SSRMs are going for CT now and it is overall a better weapon than SRMs for the weight even if you can aim fairly well with SRMs which is just wrong.

Sure we all prefer different things, but lasers are better than SRMs because of better range and the chance to focus damage with decent aim. Just take a short break now and then to cool down behind cover, that's all.

Alright dude you hate srms. Its ok. Different prefereces. But they are far away from to be useless.

I never spent so much time on forums. but i couldnt resist to defend the srms as they work very good for me. Time for me to say by

[Seddrik]

SRMs do not need damage buffs!

I use them on several builds regularly scoring 300-500 damage in varioius medium mechs with them. Think of SRMs as a missle equivalent of a shot gun. The closer you are when you fire the more they hit... If you want to increase the hit rate/narrow the cone then use artemis. That makes it much more focused even at its full range. I use this too to great effect & enjoyment.

The issue here is not design error or the need for buffs - the issue is pilot usage of a situationally very effective weapon - get in their face to fire or add artemis.

Edited by Seddrik, 20 June 2013 - 08:00 AM.

[Aaron45]

Seddrik, on 20 June 2013 - 07:57 AM, said:

Want an SRM damage boost? Use Artemis.

SRMs do not need damge buffs beyond that... and I use them on several builds regularly scoring 300-500 damage in a medium with them. Think of them as a missle equivalent of a shot gun. The closer you are when you fire the more they hit...

The issue here is not design error or buffs - the issue is pilot usage of a situationally very effective weapon.

^^Totally agreed^^

[armyof1]

Seddrik, on 20 June 2013 - 07:57 AM, said:

SRMs do not need damage buffs!

I use them on several builds regularly scoring 300-500 damage in varioius medium mechs with them. Think of SRMs as a missle equivalent of a shot gun. The closer you are when you fire the more they hit... If you want to increase the hit rate/narrow the cone then use artemis. That makes it much more focused even at its full range. I use this too to great effect & enjoyment.

The issue here is not design error or the need for buffs - the issue is pilot usage of a situationally very effective weapon - get in their face to fire or add artemis.

Even with the new Artemis it spreads out really fast. You'd have to hug an opponent at 20-30m if you don't want the missiles to spread to the same formation they'll have at 270m. And this spread means killing the smallest mechs is really hard since the missiles will spread across the entire mech no matter how well you aim, so it will take a lot of ammo to even kill a Spider.

Edited by armyof1, 20 June 2013 - 08:09 AM.

[armyof1]

Legolaas, on 20 June 2013 - 07:52 AM, said:

Alright dude you hate srms. Its ok. Different prefereces. But they are far away from to be useless.

I never spent so much time on forums. but i couldnt resist to defend the srms as they work very good for me. Time for me to say by

What I hate is how bad the devs made SRMs, I used to use them all the time as they worked really well for lights and mediums. Back then due to the splash bug they sometimes depending on what you hit did too much damage. But now they're not worth carrying as there are other weapons clearly better.

Edited by armyof1, 20 June 2013 - 08:13 AM.

[Seddrik]

Funny. SRMs are supposedly terrible, cant hit things with them... etc.

Yet I regularly hit with most if not all the missles I launch... even at range.

It is a situational, short range weapon that does take some thought in its use. Anticipate where a target will be if it is moving.

If no artemis, get closer. In a super fast light do drive by splashes with them. In a medium mech you have a good balance and probably can hit at middle range with them if you aim well. If your mech is too slow or even way too fast, it can make it harder to aim SRMs, depending on how you play & the situation.

If artemis, then you have a fuller range of great accuracy & effect.

Still have problems hitting with SRMs? Then go with streaks... VARIETY is a wonderful thing in this game. Not everyone is good with or likes every weapon. That does not mean the weapon is bad and needs Dev changes.

I'll make you a serious offer. Hook up with me in game and I'll show you what I do that works.

Edited by Seddrik, 20 June 2013 - 08:34 AM.

[Blue Splint]

I agree with Armyof1. Other than small lasers, srms are the shortest ranged weapon in the game, and they only do 0.4 damage more than lrms, launching less missiles at a time. Seriously, when I see srms on a mech I am NOT scared of them at all, unless I have a very weakened crucial component but then everything would scare me. I've tried to put 5 srm6 on a stalker and I'd fire 3 full volleys into a highlander, not even getting to internals on any area while he's put my ct or side torso to red with his pinpoint ppc/gauss. This is from 150 meters. Srms need to be buffed at least a bit, at least to something like 1.8. Keeping them at this damage is laughable, almost any other loadout except LB10X and MG/flamer builds will own it hard. Not saying you can't do damage with them or have the occasional 800 dmg game, but on average they are not worth their weight. 9 damage for 4 heat? I'd rather have 5 damage for the same heat of a medium laser that I can at least focus on one component.

[armyof1]

Seddrik, on 20 June 2013 - 08:25 AM, said:

Funny. SRMs are supposedly terrible, cant hit things with them... etc.

Yet I regularly hit with most if not all the missles I launch... even at range.

It is a situational, short range weapon that does take some thought in its use. Anticipate where a target will be if it is moving.

If no artemis, get closer. In a super fast light do drive by splashes with them. In a medium mech you have a good balance and probably can hit at middle range with them if you aim well. If your mech is too slow or even way too fast, it can make it harder to aim SRMs, depending on how you play & the situation.

If artemis, then you have a fuller range of great accuracy & effect.

Still have problems hitting with SRMs? Then go with streaks... VARIETY is a wonderful thing in this game. Not everyone is good with or likes every weapon. That does not mean the weapon is bad and needs Dev changes.

I'll make you a serious offer. Hook up with me in game and I'll show you what I do that works.

Ehh man I know how to use SRMs, and I also know if you rely on SRMs right now, you'll get shot up by anyone good with better weapons. I'm guessing you're running a Centurion-A and yeah it's about the best SRM user right now short of the SRMCat, but prolonged dancing around that close to most mechs that are often bigger than you will get you legged more often than not against anyone that can aim well. And what's with hitting with SRMs at middle range, max 270m can only be considered short range. And regularly hit with all missiles eh? So you're saying your srm stats say almost 100% ? Yeah right.

Edited by armyof1, 20 June 2013 - 09:53 AM.

[MadTulip]

Legolaas instead of arguing that you are able to do high damage with SRMs you should rather entertain us by telling why you are unable to deal yet even "moar" damage with the other significantly better weapons. not correcting for baseline is a bit without content.

Edited by MadTulip, 20 June 2013 - 10:17 AM.

[Saint Scarlett Johan]

I'm a medium mech jockey. I loved SRMs.

SRMs, no Artemis? Trash.
SRMs + Artemis? Still not much better.

SRMs are the defacto brawling weapon for mediums. And they plain suck now unless you devote the tonnage to Artemis. Which in my CN9-A went from this to this.

And Lasers are every bit superior to SRM's right now. My go to medium brawlers are now my YLW (That's how bad SRMs without Arty are) and TBT-5J w/5 MPLs.

And since missile HSR? Ha... what a joke. I can nail the broadside of an AWS or STK with a volley of SRMs and watch no hit register. In fact, I never had a problem with shots just vanishing into thin air UNTIL HSR.

[ATao]

Bump.

My 8v8 team played CQC setup since november. We polished it and were having a blast. After PPC projectile speed & heat buffs our close combat tactics had viable opponents - sniper teams. There was one particural that persued that tactics and mastered it. When we were fighting each other it was 50\50. If they managed to catch us in bad position and shoot from distance, we were screwed. If we found our way into close quarters, we roasted 'em. It was interesting, it was intence. While being fundamentally opposite both tactics (cqc and snipe) remained equally effective. There was a feeling of balance.

In March few patches hit SRMs hard. Damage nerfed from 2.5 per missile to 1.5 per missile. -40%. SRMs are bread and butter of CQC. Not only splatcats but D-DCs, STKs, SPs and CN9-As are relying heavily on them in close combat. And because of some hitbox-spashdamage problems missile damage skyrockets for 1-2 days and then it's to the ground nerf. CQC wasn't working anymore. Just a few days prior to changes we were still fighting equally and after that it's suddenly impossible. Our opponents didn't suddenly become better, we didn't suddenly become worse, both teams were the same... yet matches' outcomes changed dramatically.

We had to change weapons and mechs, try different tactics and so on to remain competitive. In the end we still managed to win Run Hot or Die MWO EU league against all the odds... But the thing is that CQC was dead on competitive level. Other good teams that were running CQC also abandoned it in favor of either laser midrange setups, ppc sniper ones or a mix of both. 40% damage nerf on one of the main close quarters weapons was too hard.


Moral of a story aka tl;dr ? SRMs are foundation of CQC. CQC is dead on competitive level now. That says a guy who used this tactics since last year and had to switch to long range weapons to adapt to new metagame.

Bring balance back please. Give us SRM damage back. If good old 2.5 is too much then 2.0 at least. Why are you buffing LRMs (another long range weapon) and leaving SRMs behind?

Edited by Alexander Malthus, 20 June 2013 - 06:43 PM.

[Aaron45]

Blue Splint, on 20 June 2013 - 08:58 AM, said:

Seriously, when I see srms on a mech I am NOT scared of them at all,

Srms need to be buffed at least a bit, at least to something like 1.8. Keeping them at this damage is laughable,

Not saying you can't do damage with them or have the occasional 800 dmg game, but on average they are not worth their weight. 9 damage for 4 heat? I'd rather have 5 damage for the same heat of a medium laser that I can at least focus on one component.

Well if you eat 3 srm 6 in your side torso it ll be 27 dmg. I would love to see that you wont care about that damage It would be soo laughable. I mean we are talking about a dmg of 1,5 per missile. Its not 0,15 boy.

To your hilarious dmg heat complain. Go ahead and use your medium lazer which causes same heat but does 5 instead 9 dmg. You cant compare medium lazer with srm6 as its even not a missile weapon + less dmg + less tonnage+ medium lazers are the op created interm that lights can use them aswell with a respective damage.

What really annoys me is that ppl who want to blame srm for their personal preferences. If you dont want to use srms, dont do it, if you suck at aiming, then go for streaks- but dont blame them without any reasonable argue.

Give me your argues, instead of the allways same foggy subjective argues.

Theres nothing to argue about- the srm were at some point super op, but now they are just good and not op anymoar.

I´d say some of you just want a Op weapon. If its not the ppc, gauss ac20 lrm, then it should be the srms eh?

MadTulip, on 20 June 2013 - 10:14 AM, said:

Legolaas instead of arguing that you are able to do high damage with SRMs you should rather entertain us by telling why you are unable to deal yet even "moar" damage with the other significantly better weapons. not correcting for baseline is a bit without content.

What do you fenboi actually want? whats your concern?

[Aaron45]

armyof1, on 20 June 2013 - 08:12 AM, said:

What I hate is how bad the devs made SRMs, I used to use them all the time as they worked really well for lights and mediums. Back then due to the splash bug they sometimes depending on what you hit did too much damage. But now they're not worth carrying as there are other weapons clearly better.

I dont see your point that srms are up. We figured out earlier that you just dont like them, aiming and that stuff. You even didnt use artemis for them- otherwise i cant understand why you keep telling that you have to be very close to the ennemy to have no spread effect.

Artemis has almost 0 spread, especially over 200 meters. CHeck it out at the training grounds. They even recently changed the flight curve of the srms. With other words they buffed it.
Of course smrs spread without artemis, but then get artemis if you dont like the spread boy.

Thats your words:

"You'd have to hug an opponent at 20-30m if you don't want the missiles to spread to the same formation they'll have at 270m"

Edited by Legolaas, 21 June 2013 - 03:35 AM.

[Aaron45]

Alexander Malthus, on 20 June 2013 - 06:36 PM, said:

Bump.

Moral of a story aka tl;dr ? SRMs are foundation of CQC. CQC is dead on competitive level now. That says a guy who used this tactics since last year and had to switch to long range weapons to adapt to new metagame.

Here we go, that far range weopon argues. Dude if the ppcs are Op then its not the fault of the srm. Ask for a ppc nerf then

I know you liked the very early smrs which were super broken. Especially the Splash damage was bugged. You easyly made over 3-4 dmg per missile. Please dont compare a Balanced weapon with your very early experience with a broken Op weapon.

Edited by Legolaas, 21 June 2013 - 03:40 AM.

[armyof1]

Legolaas, on 21 June 2013 - 02:50 AM, said:

I dont see your point that srms are up. We figured out earlier that you just dont like them, aiming and that stuff. You even didnt use artemis for them- otherwise i cant understand why you keep telling that you have to be very close to the ennemy to have no spread effect.

Artemis has almost 0 spread, especially over 200 meters. CHeck it out at the training grounds. They even recently changed the flight curve of the srms. With other words they buffed it.
Of course smrs spread without artemis, but then get artemis if you dont like the spread boy.

Thats your words:

"You'd have to hug an opponent at 20-30m if you don't want the missiles to spread to the same formation they'll have at 270m"

We didn't figure out anything, you're just assuming lots of things by yourself. I've played hundreds of matches with my 4SP and always liked SRMs more than any of the targetted ones. And SRMs is not competitive to other weapons, no matter how stubborn you want to be about it.

Of course SRMs spread with Artemis, are you hitting all missiles in the CT of a medium mech outside of 50m? Of course not, because the SRMs are spread out and hit several parts even when you aim right at the CT. That's what spread means man.

Edited by armyof1, 21 June 2013 - 12:18 PM.

[ATao]

Legolaas, on 21 June 2013 - 02:58 AM, said:

Here we go, that far range weopon argues. Dude if the ppcs are Op then its not the fault of the srm. Ask for a ppc nerf then

After PPCs received a buff via heat reduction and projectile speed buff both long range and CQC setups were balanced aok. Why should I ask for PPC nerf if I clearly know that there was a point of balance between weapons?

Legolaas, on 21 June 2013 - 02:58 AM, said:

I know you liked the very early smrs which were super broken. Especially the Splash damage was bugged. You easyly made over 3-4 dmg per missile. Please dont compare a Balanced weapon with your very early experience with a broken Op weapon.

Splash damage was broken by 19th of March patch. Before it's release it was just fine. At 21st of March this bug was hotfixed:splash radius reduced and SRM damage was nerfed from 2.5 d/m to 1.5 d/m.

I'll brake it down for you. Before the regular patch everything was fine. Patch borks missile splash damage. LRMs and SRMs are OP for 2 days. Hotfix goes live and SRMs are nerfed to the point that they are worse than their pre regular patch state.

And I'm not gonna post damage screens or play spreadsheet warrior here. I have enough proof in that my 8v8 team had to abandon SRMs entirely after that nerf and use other weapons and mech configs. Even though CQC was our favourite form of combat.

[Aaron45]

Y>

Alexander Malthus, on 21 June 2013 - 07:20 PM, said:

After PPCs received a buff via heat reduction and projectile speed buff both long range and CQC setups were balanced aok. Why should I ask for PPC nerf if I clearly know that there was a point of balance between weapons?


Splash damage was broken by 19th of March patch. Before it's release it was just fine. At 21st of March this bug was hotfixed:splash radius reduced and SRM damage was nerfed from 2.5 d/m to 1.5 d/m.

I'll brake it down for you. Before the regular patch everything was fine. Patch borks missile splash damage. LRMs and SRMs are OP for 2 days. Hotfix goes live and SRMs are nerfed to the point that they are worse than their pre regular patch state.

And I'm not gonna post damage screens or play spreadsheet warrior here. I have enough proof in that my 8v8 team had to abandon SRMs entirely after that nerf and use other weapons and mech configs. Even though CQC was our favourite form of combat.

No way dude there was something wrong with the splash dmg. Ppl figured it out luckyly by shooting at mechs at the testing grounds. So you very early experience with the smrs are one of a broken weapon.

armyof1, on 21 June 2013 - 12:16 PM, said:

We didn't figure out anything, you're just assuming lots of things by yourself. I've played hundreds of matches with my 4SP and always liked SRMs more than any of the targetted ones. And SRMs is not competitive to other weapons, no matter how stubborn you want to be about it.

Of course SRMs spread with Artemis, are you hitting all missiles in the CT of a medium mech outside of 50m? Of course not, because the SRMs are spread out and hit several parts even when you aim right at the CT. That's what spread means man.

Yes depends on the mech in front of yoiu. If aussault or heavy 100% yes with artemis. Spread means to me that you dont hit the ennemy mech with many/ some missiles.