49 replies to this topic

[Unbound Inferno]

MW games in the past have been FPS. But they have also been largely single-player IIRC.

If this is to turn into a multiplayer first person simulation like they have claimed, we need to revamp the idea of FPS in this game. Until that happens, its just another MW game that will be out the door and considered old in under a year.

Unless they grow a spine and actually overhaul the glaring problems here this won't last long or be considered well done at all.

[Sybreed]

Pater Mors, on 18 June 2013 - 03:47 PM, said:

These are the things I meant when I said game play needs to be considered over canon.
- Bad for game play, should be left out.
- Bad for customization and game play, should be left out.
- Good for game play. Much better than R&R.
- Ambivalent on coolant.
- Currently very bad for game play, seriously in need of change.

- I have trouble understanding why WoT can have R&R, but not MWO. Are we kind of special?
- You think it's bad for gameplay, a lot of people think the current mechlab is bad for gameplay. Also, I didn't even describe how I would limit the mechlab so how can you even judge?
- Agreed
- Coolant shouldn't be here
- Not sure I understand you here, are you saying gun recoil and infinite convergence are bad for gameplay, or the other way around?

[Karazyr]

No just no, you have no idea how boring true sims are. iven if your piloting a war machine making it a sim would suck all the fun out of it.

[ExtremeA79]

Tennex, on 18 June 2013 - 03:44 PM, said:

wait MW2, 3, 4 had R&R, more limited, mechlab, and no coolants?
i think thats just what you want.

i don't think you should be putting words in his mouth

I can understand a non limited mechlab in mechwarrior 2 and 3 as there were mostly clan mechs and clans mechs pretty much have unlimited customization.

[Unbound Inferno]

Derrpy, on 18 June 2013 - 03:50 PM, said:

No just no, you have no idea how boring true sims are. iven if your piloting a war machine making it a sim would suck all the fun out of it.

Not true, well - in most regards.

Look, the idea of a simulator needs to be rehashed to where its an enjoyable game but true to the lore if they want to keep that line.

It can be done, but not the way they are doing it now.

[FupDup]

Sybreed, on 18 June 2013 - 03:50 PM, said:

- I have trouble understanding why WoT can have R&R, but not MWO. Are we kind of special?

RnR discourages people from trying new loudouts (as would customization limits), and that's the last thing we need. Too many players in MWO have grown content with their 4 PPC Stalkers and AC/40 Jagers. We need to give a people a reason to experiment with new things, not stick to the tried-and-true meta.

[AntiCitizenJuan]

Derrpy, on 18 June 2013 - 03:50 PM, said:

No just no, you have no idea how boring true sims are. iven if your piloting a war machine making it a sim would suck all the fun out of it.

ARMA is a true sim and it's loads of fun.

[ExtremeA79]

Sybreed, on 18 June 2013 - 03:50 PM, said:

No just no

No on what? I said this game should put balance over canon.

Edited by Darren Tyler, 18 June 2013 - 03:58 PM.

[Sybreed]

Derrpy, on 18 June 2013 - 03:50 PM, said:

No just no, you have no idea how boring true sims are. iven if your piloting a war machine making it a sim would suck all the fun out of it.

funny, when I was around 10 or 12, I used to play Jane's Combat Simulations like F-15 or Longbow. My favorite one was the Sub sim Hunter/Killer though, I had a blast playing that one.

Also played Silent Hunter 3 with all the handicaps and found the game 1000x more fun when I decided to get the targetting solutions myself by measuring angles and calculating the distance with the periscope.

Some people have different kinds of fun. My kind of fun is when it's challenging both for the mind and for the reflexes. MWO falls in neither caterogies.

Edited by Sybreed, 18 June 2013 - 04:02 PM.

[Pater Mors]

Sybreed, on 18 June 2013 - 03:50 PM, said:

- I have trouble understanding why WoT can have R&R, but not MWO. Are we kind of special?
- You think it's bad for gameplay, a lot of people think the current mechlab is bad for gameplay. Also, I didn't even describe how I would limit the mechlab so how can you even judge?
- Agreed
- Coolant shouldn't be here
- Not sure I understand you here, are you saying gun recoil and infinite convergence are bad for gameplay, or the other way around?

- Haven't played WoT so I can't comment on their systems.
- A huge attractant to MechWarrior is customization. It's what got me and all my friends into the games in the first place. Limiting customization is bad for game play and forces a set number of builds. It becomes another style of FOTM, especially the HP ideas that are floating around.
- Skipped the next two
- I mean that the current infinite convergence and zero recoil are exceptionally bad for game play and are causing the Alpha Strike Meta as much as, if not more than, the lack of a proper heat system.

Edited by Pater Mors, 18 June 2013 - 03:55 PM.

[Sybreed]

FupDup, on 18 June 2013 - 03:52 PM, said:

RnR discourages people from trying new loudouts (as would customization limits), and that's the last thing we need. Too many players in MWO have grown content with their 4 PPC Stalkers and AC/40 Jagers. We need to give a people a reason to experiment with new things, not stick to the tried-and-true meta.

Unless the AC/20 and the PPC cost a shitton to repair, now people would try to find other less expensive builds

[Pater Mors]

Sybreed, on 18 June 2013 - 03:54 PM, said:

Unless the AC/20 and the PPC cost a shitton to repair, now people would try to find other less expensive builds

Punishments for running certain builds are not the answer to stopping the lack of variety. It's not conducive to a fun game for a huge portion of the player base.

[FupDup]

Sybreed, on 18 June 2013 - 03:54 PM, said:

Unless the AC/20 and the PPC cost a shitton to repair, now people would try to find other less expensive builds

If a mech increases the likelihood of victory, that mech will be used. We have seen this time and time again in every meta that has ever existed in any video game since the beginning of mankind.

Making alpha-strike weapons cost more to repair won't change the fact that they still offer complete superiority on the battlefield...a place were money doesn't have any effect. Money only has an effect after your SHS medium has been wiped off the face of the earth by a 4 ERPPC Stalker that never took any damage from you.



The only way to fix it is to give those builds much larger weaknesses (while letting them keep their strengths) so that they no longer offer a higher probability of winning.



EDIT: Whoops, I forgot about the wink part. I jumped the gun on that one (I assumed you were serious about money somehow stopping PPC hoarders).

Edited by FupDup, 18 June 2013 - 04:01 PM.

[Sybreed]

Pater Mors, on 18 June 2013 - 03:54 PM, said:

- Haven't played WoT so I can't comment on their systems.
- A huge attractant to MechWarrior is customization. It's what got me and all my friends into the games in the first place. Limiting customization is bad for game play and forces a set number of builds. It becomes another style of FOTM, especially the HP ideas that are floating around.
- Skipped the next two
- I mean that the current infinite convergence and zero recoil are exceptionally bad for game play and are causing the Alpha Strike Meta as much as, if not more than, the lack of a proper heat system.

About WoT: It's a lot like what we used to have, with the exception of not being able to use your tank if it's destroyed. The difference between MWO and WoT is that if you do exceptionnally well, you're a lot more rewarded than how you would be in MWO. So, even if you lose, you still made enough money to pay for your repairs. And contrary to MWO, coming in a match not fully loaded ammo-wise isn't as catastrophic.

FupDup, on 18 June 2013 - 03:57 PM, said:

If a mech increases the likelihood of victory, that mech will be used. We have seen this time and time again in every meta that has ever existed in any video game since the beginning of mankind.

Making alpha-strike weapons cost more to repair won't change the fact that they still offer complete superiority on the battlefield...a place were money doesn't have any effect. Money only has an effect after your SHS medium has been wiped off the face of the earth by a 4 ERPPC Stalker that never took any damage from you.



The only way to fix it is to give those builds much larger weaknesses (while letting them keep their strengths) so that they no longer offer a higher probability of winning.

I know, I know, was just throwing things out (hence the /wink)

Pater Mors, on 18 June 2013 - 03:56 PM, said:

Punishments for running certain builds are not the answer to stopping the lack of variety. It's not conducive to a fun game for a huge portion of the player base.

see answer above and I would add that the game isn't really fun right now anyway

[Pater Mors]

Sybreed, on 18 June 2013 - 03:59 PM, said:

About WoT: It's a lot like what we used to have, with the exception of not being able to use your tank if it's destroyed. The difference between MWO and WoT is that if you do exceptionnally well, you're a lot more rewarded than how you would be in MWO. So, even if you lose, you still made enough money to pay for your repairs. And contrary to MWO, coming in a match not fully loaded ammo-wise isn't as catastrophic.

Still, without experiencing either I am not in much of a place to give my thoughts on a comparison on the two systems. However, I can tell you, that from what you've described there WoT would likely not appeal to me at all. I don't come here to spend time playing 'economy manager' in the Mechlab.

[Deathlike]

It's a simulated FPS, but it fails at being either/both.

[FupDup]

As a public service announcement to all forumwarriors in this thread: the poll has been changed. Currently, the choices are now between a game that obeys canon or a game that is balanced (opposite extremes) instead of the old choices of sim versus FPS.


Please change your votes accordingly.

Edited by FupDup, 18 June 2013 - 04:14 PM.

[Sybreed]

Pater Mors, on 18 June 2013 - 04:01 PM, said:

Still, without experiencing either I am not in much of a place to give my thoughts on a comparison on the two systems. However, I can tell you, that from what you've described there WoT would likely not appeal to me at all. I don't come here to spend time playing 'economy manager' in the Mechlab.

it's nothing like that. You get destroyed, go in garage, hit repair, done. It's almost impossible that you lose money unless you fired your 80 shells or that you fire gold all the time.

You sound a bit like someone very difficult to please

[The Cheese]

Strictly adhering to canon at the expense of balance would kill this game.

I am having trouble accepting that anyone can question this.

I think they're actually doing OK as far as finding a middle ground between canon and game balance.

Edited by The Cheese, 18 June 2013 - 04:21 PM.

[Sybreed]

canon looks more balanced than current game!