29 replies to this topic

[Victor Morson]

The Quickdraw is currently sporting some small scale 4, or 6, missile ports in all it's missile hardpoints. This is really bad. In order for it to have any chance as a serious contender for the fast-moving missile meta, close or short, is if those ports are opened up enough to dump at least 15 missiles through one of them.

I'm not saying to change the hard points, just the port arrangements. This one change would do wonders to give the Quickdraw some advantage to offset it's horrendous profile, which I don't think can be fixed through any simple means.

[TELEFORCE]

I'm not too familiar with the missile port configurations of the other newer 'mechs (like the JM6-A and the HGN-XXX), but weren't the other missile ports on newer 'mechs changing to fit to the size of the launcher mounted in the location? For an example, the HGN-XXX would have an LRM-20 in the arm, therefore 20 missile ports show on the model, but if there was an LRM-10, only 10 ports would be created.

[Monky]

Port arrangements (# of missile tubes) are something that will happen with art passes. The highlander already has fully interchangable missiles (up to 10 I think), this feature will likely be coming to all mechs eventually. Mechs that start with 15+ on a hardpoint will likely have a slight edge in using heavy LRM loadouts (especially with multiple hardpoints using the same port)

[Gaan Cathal]

TELEFORCE, on 18 June 2013 - 09:45 PM, said:

I'm not too familiar with the missile port configurations of the other newer 'mechs (like the JM6-A and the HGN-XXX), but weren't the other missile ports on newer 'mechs changing to fit to the size of the launcher mounted in the location? For an example, the HGN-XXX would have an LRM-20 in the arm, therefore 20 missile ports show on the model, but if there was an LRM-10, only 10 ports would be created.

I believe this is the case with a by-hardpoint cap on the number of ports. So when it visits the Raven chassis, the 6-pack might reduce to a 5-, 4- or 2-pack port, but not go up to a 10-, 15- or 20-pack port. In theory this is to preserve the 'LRM tendency' of certain mechs, although it does seem odd to me since no other weapon is limited this way.

There's also currently a problem where it forces weapons into the wrong slot, meaning that a Quckdraw with a 6 and a 4 in the one torso will end up firing the 6 out of the 4 slot and reducing volley size. Which is bad.

[One Medic Army]

It has missiles?

Been too busy using the MLs and PPCs on mine.

[GODzillaGSPB]

Victor Morson, on 18 June 2013 - 09:31 PM, said:

The Quickdraw is currently sporting some small scale 4, or 6, missile ports in all it's missile hardpoints. This is really bad. In order for it to have any chance as a serious contender for the fast-moving missile meta, close or short, is if those ports are opened up enough to dump at least 15 missiles through one of them.

I'm not saying to change the hard points, just the port arrangements. This one change would do wonders to give the Quickdraw some advantage to offset it's horrendous profile, which I don't think can be fixed through any simple means.

Mechs should be different. If they're all the same, why bother trying more than one or a few of them?

I agree on the profile part, it's a bit ridiculous. But those are two seperate things imho. So the Quickdraw only has 4 missile tubes --> deal with it. Learn to make the best of the limitations.

Those limitations will vanish with clan-mechs anyway. Gotta make the best of it as long as balance is something that can be achieved, because once those limits are gone, it's gonna be balance-helldorado.

[MasterErrant]

Victor Morson, on 18 June 2013 - 09:31 PM, said:

The Quickdraw is currently sporting some small scale 4, or 6, missile ports in all it's missile hardpoints. This is really bad. In order for it to have any chance as a serious contender for the fast-moving missile meta, close or short, is if those ports are opened up enough to dump at least 15 missiles through one of them.

I'm not saying to change the hard points, just the port arrangements. This one change would do wonders to give the Quickdraw some advantage to offset it's horrendous profile, which I don't think can be fixed through any simple means.

it has as many ports as the launcher has. up to ten on the torso. (Exactly like the highlander)

Edited by MasterErrant, 23 June 2013 - 04:36 PM.

[Levi Porphyrogenitus]

Its SRM4 has 4 ports, its LRM10 has 10 ports. I don't see a problem.

[Mercules]

No, it adds flavor to mechs. Besides the fewer ports actually give you more accurate shots. Six spread out more than 2 and dumping 6 missiles through a 2 slot leads to 3 launches of narrow focussed missiles.

[One Medic Army]

If you genuinely want to run more LRMs, might I suggest the 65ton Catapult?
JJs, lasers, big*** missile pods.

[armyof1]

The single CT missile slot with a 4 tube limit gives me flashbacks to the horrible Jenner-K. I agree with what someone else said, the devs hate anything that isn't a light but can still push 100kph and beyond, frailty due to XL or not.

Edited by armyof1, 20 June 2013 - 01:57 AM.

[Vassago Rain]

The quickdraws currently have a max tube count of 10 in the side, and 4 in the center. The second pod that sometimes appears on the side seems completely cosmetic.

If it was real, you'd be able to shoot LRM15s in one volley, but they come out in two.

[Levi Porphyrogenitus]

armyof1, on 20 June 2013 - 01:56 AM, said:

The single CT missile slot with a 4 tube limit gives me flashbacks to the horrible Jenner-K. I agree with what someone else said, the devs hate anything that isn't a light but can still push 100kph and beyond, frailty due to XL or not.

So put an SRM4 in it, and SRM6s in the LRM torso. You can fit a good 16 Artemis SRMs that all fire at once (in the one with 3 hard points). Seems like a reasonably SRM alpha to me, plus you have a whole lot of lasers to back it up. 10 SRMs in the one with 2 hard points, and for the one with only a single hard point just put a SSRM launcher in there. Your main punch in that variant is your lasers anyway, and a single SSRM2 with a ton of ammo is a fine backup weapon system.

[armyof1]

Levi Porphyrogenitus, on 20 June 2013 - 06:32 AM, said:

So put an SRM4 in it, and SRM6s in the LRM torso. You can fit a good 16 Artemis SRMs that all fire at once (in the one with 3 hard points). Seems like a reasonably SRM alpha to me, plus you have a whole lot of lasers to back it up. 10 SRMs in the one with 2 hard points, and for the one with only a single hard point just put a SSRM launcher in there. Your main punch in that variant is your lasers anyway, and a single SSRM2 with a ton of ammo is a fine backup weapon system.

A single ssrms2 is a waste of space, to have a separate weapon to handle for the occasional 3 damage. Not to mention you probably need a BAP so you don't have to worry about ECM, which makes it even more wasteful. 4 missile tubes for a missile hardpoint with 2 slots available is just silly, you can't even put an LRM5 there without it firing first 4 then 1 single missile. Sure you can work with bad hardpoints and missile tube deflation, but it still doesn't make it less of a bad design.

[Livewyr]

Actually, I agree with the OP.

I bought a quickdraw because other than JJs, a missile HP outside the CT is the only thing it has over the dragon, but since the missiles only come out 10 at a time, there's really no difference, and therefore little point IMO

I can go fast with it, with JJs, but it is little more than a cross between a dragon and a cataphract 3D without missile viability.

[InRev]

Gaan Cathal, on 18 June 2013 - 11:28 PM, said:

In theory this is to preserve the 'LRM tendency' of certain mechs, although it does seem odd to me since no other weapon is limited this way.

This is what drives me insane about the tube limitations. Missiles are the only weapon system that has a soft hardpoint limitation. Yes, theoretically, you can still throw an LRM20 into a Narc tube location, but it will be useless in a practical sense.

Neither ballistics, nor energy weapons are limited in such a manner and it's flat out bizarre. Not to beat a dead horse, but PPCs are limited to preserve the "PPC tendency" of Awesomes or K2s, so I genuinely don't understand why the tube limitation exists.

[3rdworld]

InRev, on 20 June 2013 - 08:57 AM, said:

This is what drives me insane about the tube limitations. Missiles are the only weapon system that has a soft hardpoint limitation. Yes, theoretically, you can still throw an LRM20 into a Narc tube location, but it will be useless in a practical sense.

Neither ballistics, nor energy weapons are limited in such a manner and it's flat out bizarre. Not to beat a dead horse, but PPCs are limited to preserve the "PPC tendency" of Awesomes or K2s, so I genuinely don't understand why the tube limitation exists.

There used to be a time when people put as many SRMs on a mech as it could hold.

While it was quite a long time ago, the soft "tube" cap was the only way to provide some form of balance.

It is stupid though, but it is just another item to join the long list of stupid things about this game.

Edited by 3rdworld, 20 June 2013 - 08:59 AM.

[Gaan Cathal]

InRev, on 20 June 2013 - 08:57 AM, said:

This is what drives me insane about the tube limitations. Missiles are the only weapon system that has a soft hardpoint limitation. Yes, theoretically, you can still throw an LRM20 into a Narc tube location, but it will be useless in a practical sense.

Neither ballistics, nor energy weapons are limited in such a manner and it's flat out bizarre. Not to beat a dead horse, but PPCs are limited to preserve the "PPC tendency" of Awesomes or K2s, so I genuinely don't understand why the tube limitation exists.

The do have the same effect on older mechs, it just has no effect on balance. A RVN-4X has four energy hardpoints, two in the right arm, two in the left chest. Two lasers in the left chest, however, fire out of the same port (incidentally giving the appearnce of only firing three lasers). I believe the AS7-RS does this as well with two lasers fired out a single port on the arm.

[Levi Porphyrogenitus]

armyof1, on 20 June 2013 - 06:46 AM, said:

A single ssrms2 is a waste of space, to have a separate weapon to handle for the occasional 3 damage. Not to mention you probably need a BAP so you don't have to worry about ECM, which makes it even more wasteful. 4 missile tubes for a missile hardpoint with 2 slots available is just silly, you can't even put an LRM5 there without it firing first 4 then 1 single missile. Sure you can work with bad hardpoints and missile tube deflation, but it still doesn't make it less of a bad design.

If you have a hard time finding a way to fire an extra weapon trigger when that weapon is a lock-on missile system that aims with the arm weapons, then you have deeper problems with playing this game. Just assign a thumb button (if you have one) or an easy-to-reach keyboard button (3, for instance, is right next to W and E and very easy to reach with your steering hand).

Also, a single SSRM launcher can be enough to discourage a light from coming after you. Especially if you have a hard time hitting it with other weapons, that slow and steady CT damage can scare off a lot of light pilots.

Finally, BAP is mostly necessary if you want to use SSRMs as your main punch, since not having it will negate a large chunk of your firepower should you encounter ECM. Still, BAP has other uses too (extended sensor range can be quite handy), and the Quickdraw with only one missile hard point should have tonnage to spare if you're boating MLs.

[Deathlike]

Gaan Cathal, on 20 June 2013 - 09:00 AM, said:

The do have the same effect on older mechs, it just has no effect on balance. A RVN-4X has four energy hardpoints, two in the right arm, two in the left chest. Two lasers in the left chest, however, fire out of the same port (incidentally giving the appearnce of only firing three lasers). I believe the AS7-RS does this as well with two lasers fired out a single port on the arm.

You mean the RVN-2X.

The better missile boat is still the Catapult, so I'm not really feeling bad about the Quickdraw being primarily an energy boat.