63 replies to this topic

[PEEFsmash]

Another posterboy for my campaign:

#MakeEloPublic

(Or leaderboards/league tiers).

[Sephlock]

Kyynele, on 19 June 2013 - 04:21 PM, said:

Wat.

What a macro is and what a macro does is that it cycles through the weapon groups with better precision than a human manually could. That is it. AC/2 cooldown is 0.5s no matter how much you macro or don't macro. One AC/2 does 4 DPS no matter how you fire it.

If my math is right, with 6 AC/2 on a Jager-DD you can set a macro to fire each of them with 0.0833s intervals. That is a ROF of 12 per second, and that is how it should work. The DPS and heat generation is exactly the same as it would be firing those 6 AC/2 simultaneously.

There is actually a cap on the rate of input, also.

[Kyynele]

Sephlock, on 19 June 2013 - 04:28 PM, said:

There is actually a cap on the rate of input, also.

I'll admit, I'm freeborn scum that doesn't bother to macro. :I

[Roland]

MasterErrant, on 19 June 2013 - 02:00 PM, said:

um sory but you are wrong. record one of the fast firers and count. ive seen several with a total ROF of 14 tghat's a dps of 28 of seven per gun. about 25% of the players useing this build seem to be useing some sort of rof buff. a simple macro givesa rof of 8 it should sound just a little slower than an mg
I've reported it and been told to keep doing so by "Comgaurd" which tells me thatg it is a problem.

Dude, did that even make sense to you when you typed it?

[TOGSolid]

Ngamok, on 19 June 2013 - 01:16 PM, said:

It's not the thought but an ease of use thing. Say I had a program (there are many out there) that pretty much pressed 1 2 3 4 with a 0.5s delay that I could start and stop with 1 button press. If I set it up to do that and not actually have to press my mouse keys that correspond to weapon groups 1 - 4 to fire 4 AC/2s or fire them in groups of two every 0.5s or 3 if you have 6 AC/2s, don't you think that would be easy than having to press mouse buttons? That's why people macro, to simplify something.

Edit: Give you an example. In RIFT we wrote macros for skills with cool downs so that way we can fire them when their cool down was up. If the ability was on cool down, it would cast the next ability in the list till that first ability came off it's cool down. So you have an ability that has a 30s cool down and one that has a 15s and one that has a 10s and one that is instant, you write the macro to cast the longest one first, then the second longest, and so on. Then, you eliminate the need to have 4 abilities on 4 keys. instead they are all bound to one.

Double Edit: Shatter combos of Frost mages in WoW, same thing.

I understand what a macro does, I've cooked up a couple in the past to automate some simple **** in other games but doing the AC/2 rapid fire trick by hand with a multi-button mouse is really, really easy. Starting from the back button I set the groups up so that getting the effect is as simple as just squeezing my hand right. After practicing it in the training grounds for a little bit I could get it perfectly without any thought or effort. Whenever I run an AC/2 Jager I get accused of macroing constantly but I don't script at all. Is it easier to do it with a macro? Sure, if you want to be lazy about it but with just a few minutes of practice you can achieve the same thing with as minimal of effort.

It's like an automatic combo mode for a fighting game. Sure it makes the combo brainless but you lose a lot of flexibility and don't grow as a player by learning to do it.

[Mercules]

Legolaas, on 18 June 2013 - 11:58 PM, said:

Dont spread untrue stuff

The macro ac2 is superious over a chainfired ac2.

Check the video to seeit

Yeah, because the chain fire is broken, not because the macro is. You can get the same effect using two groups set up to chainfire. Press the mouse buttons 1 right after the other, click, click, and you have the same effect. In fact I've been called a "Macro ***" and don't have a Macro set up. Some people just can't get it through their head they are wrong as well as manually challenged.

Inkarnus, on 19 June 2013 - 12:37 AM, said:

macro yager fubar
macro abuser play the game
not let it be played for ya
nuff said

Can use a Macro to do it, Totally legal. I can also have a larger monitor, better computer for a higher frame rate, better video card for better resolution, and there is nothing you can do about it. Invest in the tools if you want to play the game, don't whine because others have the toys.

BTW, I don't use a macro.

Jetfire, on 19 June 2013 - 03:03 AM, said:

Macro Jager 4xAC/2 is not OP, but using macros to take the skill out of weapons firing or to compensate for a lack of easy to use control options for such builds is not exactly fair either. Using macros by and large is just using hardware to compensate for your being human rather than a robot with limited processing capacity to output to a keyboard. In that regard, they should be viewed in multiplayer games as an unfair advantage. Competitive games end up either banning macros or everyone ends up using them all the time.

WHAT SKILL??

Set left arm ACs to group one. Set right arm ACs to group two. Set both to Chain Fire. Click Left then Right staggered and hold. It does the same thing as the Macro for 4 AC2s. It's also WORSE than just firing all four together. I could teach my friend's 4 year old to do it.

MrTarget, on 19 June 2013 - 03:44 AM, said:

Ok there are three views on this thread.
1. Macro does nothing.
2. Macro works
3. Macro can be done via using the keys so macro is not needed.

Some people agree with both 1 and 3 which is insane.

I agree with 2.

The macro does not shorten the reload time of the weapon, it speeds up the time between firing groups. If you divide the reload time (0.5) by 5 (the timings between the key presses) you WILL speed up the firing because you are SHORTENING the gap between the groups firing. As each of the weapons are individual they will fire when commanded, in this case by the macro.

Simples.

So what? 1. We are talking about 4 AC2s. 2. It is less damage than firing them all in one group because of the start up and stop time and it scatters it. It is worse than firing them all in a group. The only bad thing it does is scare people who haven't figure out that it is worse and panic under fire... AKA Bad Players.

MasterErrant, on 19 June 2013 - 02:00 PM, said:

um sory but you are wrong. record one of the fast firers and count. ive seen several with a total ROF of 14 tghat's a dps of 28 of seven per gun. about 25% of the players useing this build seem to be useing some sort of rof buff. a simple macro givesa rof of 8 it should sound just a little slower than an mg
I've reported it and been told to keep doing so by "Comgaurd" which tells me thatg it is a problem.

Um.. RoF of 14? You mean per second? You are wrong. If you are not please set up a 6 AC2 Jagger with a Macro and record you getting 14 shots per second. Burden of proof is on you, the person making the outrageous claim that is logically false since the weapon can't fire faster than twice per second even if you hammer the button and all the macro does is click the button just like you clicked it.


Seriously people. This fallacious myth has got to die. You can't get an advantage with the AC2s with a Macro you can't do with Chain Fire and a plain ol' mouse most gamers would use. If it has 2 buttons you can fire 4 AC2s just like the macro simply. If it has 3 you can do 6. Simple.

[MustrumRidcully]

Ngamok, on 19 June 2013 - 01:16 PM, said:

It's not the thought but an ease of use thing. Say I had a program (there are many out there) that pretty much pressed 1 2 3 4 with a 0.5s delay that I could start and stop with 1 button press. If I set it up to do that and not actually have to press my mouse keys that correspond to weapon groups 1 - 4 to fire 4 AC/2s or fire them in groups of two every 0.5s or 3 if you have 6 AC/2s, don't you think that would be easy than having to press mouse buttons? That's why people macro, to simplify something.

Edit: Give you an example. In RIFT we wrote macros for skills with cool downs so that way we can fire them when their cool down was up. If the ability was on cool down, it would cast the next ability in the list till that first ability came off it's cool down. So you have an ability that has a 30s cool down and one that has a 15s and one that has a 10s and one that is instant, you write the macro to cast the longest one first, then the second longest, and so on. Then, you eliminate the need to have 4 abilities on 4 keys. instead they are all bound to one.

Double Edit: Shatter combos of Frost mages in WoW, same thing.

In Startrek Online, you can set up macros like that in the Chat UI.

There are many shortcomings with STO and Cryptic, but they had a few systems that I really wish more MMO and F2P developers had.

[Lostdragon]

Today I actually came upon a 5 AC2 Jager, first one I had seen in a while and maybe the one that inspired the OP. I charged him and fired my AC20 and 2x PPCs into his CT. I twisted while my weapons cooled and spread his damage all over my HGN. I lined up a second shot and killed him before he could get any of my armor past yellow.

A while back I tried a 4x AC2 CTF. It was fun for a little while but it is really not very good, especially now.

Edited by Lostdragon, 19 June 2013 - 10:44 PM.

[Ordate]

Jetfire, on 19 June 2013 - 03:03 AM, said:

Using macros by and large is just using hardware to compensate for your being human rather than a robot with limited processing capacity to output to a keyboard.

I had to lol.

[Sable Dove]

It takes minimal skill to achieve the same effect without a macro, and the benefits are questionable, at best. (The gameplay benefits, I mean; obviously it makes them feel/look/sound much more fun.)

I do it on my CDA-3C all the time; it takes 3 buttons, which any half-decent mouse has, though when it comes down to it, once you're firing, you only need to hold one button, so even a one-button mouse is sufficient for rapid chainfire.

[Reported for Inappropriate Name]

if you put them all on the same chainfire circuit you're doing it wrong. groups of two.

although i personally prefer using lbx 10 on jagermech. they look cool.

Edited by Battlecruiser, 19 June 2013 - 11:48 PM.

[OneEyed Jack]

Mercules, on 19 June 2013 - 06:34 PM, said:

Set left arm ACs to group one. Set right arm ACs to group two. Set both to Chain Fire. Click Left then Right staggered and hold. It does the same thing as the Macro for 4 AC2s. It's also WORSE than just firing all four together. I could teach my friend's 4 year old to do it.

Don't mean to burst your bubble, but it's not the same effect at all. In fact, it's exactly half of the effect.
Chain-fire, for anything but beams, has a half-second delay. AC2, has a half-second cycle time. If you set up 2 chains of 2, you get 2 chains going, each of which are shooting 1 shot every half-second (4 total shots/sec). Each chain literally might as well be a single gun. A macro, timed correctly, will fire all 4 guns every half-second (8 total shots/sec).

What you're doing is basically the same as firing 2 guns, but you're carrying 24 tons worth of guns to do it.

Edited by OneEyed Jack, 20 June 2013 - 12:39 AM.

[MrTarget]

Syllogy, on 19 June 2013 - 04:47 AM, said:

Whether you fire all 6 AC/2s at the same time, or each individually over the course of 0.50 seconds, they will EACH take 0.50 seconds to reload. It DOES NOT SPEED UP FIRING OF INDIVIDUAL AC2's.

I can fire all 4 AC2's sequentially in 0.5 seconds, by the time the last one has fired the first one is ready to fire again repeating the process.

I'm pretty confident in saying that the chain fire does not fire all 4 sequentially in 0.5 seconds.

There for macro is faster.

Simples

[Lucun]

Set R mouse to chain fire right side 2 ac2, Set L mouse to chain fire left side 2 ac2. Set group 3 to all ac2... start chain with R L R L then spam 3. It will fire em alternating due to the cooldown, making an effect similar to using a macro.

[OneEyed Jack]

MrTarget, on 20 June 2013 - 12:48 AM, said:

I can fire all 4 AC2's sequentially in 0.5 seconds, by the time the last one has fired the first one is ready to fire again repeating the process.

I'm pretty confident in saying that the chain fire does not fire all 4 sequentially in 0.5 seconds.

There for macro is faster.

Simples

Put them all in a single group and hold the button without chain-fire, and ti will fire the guns exactly as fast as the fastest you can manage with a macro. Therefore, it is not faster. The only thing that macroing them does differently than group-firing them is to space out the shots of individual guns instead of firing them all at once. Yes, it's faster than chain-fire them. No, it's not firing them faster than the individual guns are supposed to shoot.

Lucun, on 20 June 2013 - 12:51 AM, said:

Set R mouse to chain fire right side 2 ac2, Set L mouse to chain fire left side 2 ac2. Set group 3 to all ac2... start chain with R L R L then spam 3. It will fire em alternating due to the cooldown, making an effect similar to using a macro.

Yes, that would work, though it would be a slow start.

Edited by OneEyed Jack, 20 June 2013 - 01:01 AM.

[MrTarget]

OneEyed Jack, on 20 June 2013 - 01:00 AM, said:

Put them all in a single group and hold the button without chain-fire, and ti will fire the guns exactly as fast as the fastest you can manage with a macro. Therefore, it is not faster. The only thing that macroing them does differently than group-firing them is to space out the shots of individual guns instead of firing them all at once. Yes, it's faster than chain-fire them. No, it's not firing them faster than the individual guns are supposed to shoot.


Yes, that would work, though it would be a slow start.

I don't think I said I was firing them all at once... Let me check... No I said sequentially, which means one after another... In sequence some may say.

Did I mention that the damage output was higher... Let me check... No.

Chain fire will fire them slower in sequence then a macro. A macro does the sequence of 1234 in 0.5 seconds.

Chain Fire does not fire all 4 weapons in the same group quicker.

I agree with all the other ways of making them fire faster using multiple groups and multiple buttons, my macro does this for me. So my macro is firing faster then chain fire.

Edited by MrTarget, 20 June 2013 - 02:01 AM.

[LordDante]

im using a macro to fire the ac 20 in my wang ! does it make me a cheater NO does it make me stupid YES ! its like this thread.

[Ngamok]

Lucun, on 20 June 2013 - 12:51 AM, said:

Set R mouse to chain fire right side 2 ac2, Set L mouse to chain fire left side 2 ac2. Set group 3 to all ac2... start chain with R L R L then spam 3. It will fire em alternating due to the cooldown, making an effect similar to using a macro.

If I can set up a macro to avoid having to use my right fingers to press either of the mouse buttons, I can aim more accurately because my fingers aren't busy trying to push L and R. I can start stop a macro by hitting the space bar with my left thumb. Do you see what I am saying?

[Lostdragon]

Ngamok, on 20 June 2013 - 07:02 AM, said:

If I can set up a macro to avoid having to use my right fingers to press either of the mouse buttons, I can aim more accurately because my fingers aren't busy trying to push L and R. I can start stop a macro by hitting the space bar with my left thumb. Do you see what I am saying?

Uh, you don't need a macro to rebind your firing buttons so they are not on the mouse. I don't see how that is relevant at all.

[MeiSooHaityu]

Legolaas, on 18 June 2013 - 11:58 PM, said:

Dont spread untrue stuff

The macro ac2 is superious over a chainfired ac2.

True, due to the slower in-game chain fire cycling...HOWEVER, it can never do more damage within a given time period than group firing all 6 together. A macro can not make an A/C 2 cool down faster.