132 replies to this topic

[Carrioncrows]

One Medic Army, on 21 June 2013 - 02:03 PM, said:

Also I am confused you call the Quickdraw slow, mine clocks about 95.

And that is painfully slow.

Oh it might seem like fast for a Heavy mech, hell my 3D pushes 87 kph but whatever speed you have is mitigated by the sheer size of the QD profile making it absurdly easy to track.

Like the dragon there is no point in making it go fast, as no matter how fast you make it go you are still too damn slow to avoid getting your *** handed to you.

You can't actually bring MORE weapons to the fight, hell you don't even bring more armor, or better brawling capacity. The dragon isn't a great mech but it is miles above this.

Edited by Carrioncrows, 21 June 2013 - 02:19 PM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Carrioncrows, on 21 June 2013 - 01:57 PM, said:

Bish, I can do 500+ damage in mine too. Just load x2 LRM15's and LRM10 with lots of ammo and 1 match later.

Or better yet put 4 PPC's on it with a 255XL

But this isn't actually anything new, get a true brawler mech to roll up on you and you are done for. QD's run from blackjacks, hell they run from cicada's and spiders. They can sit back and use ppc's or lrms' but once again this is nothing new.

I wanted to like the QD but it is simply a bad mech in MWO, a slow large profile high heat battlemech.

Hoppin Hammer
Mine ain't exactly dancing as a support mech. I tend to run it as an ll purpose stopgap.
(will be upgraded to this Hammer2 once I get a new 300XL.... since I appear to have misplaced mine)

Ain't claiming it's perfect, but the mech is better than people give it credit for, IMO.

[One Medic Army]

Carrioncrows, on 21 June 2013 - 02:18 PM, said:

And that is painfully slow.

Oh it might seem like fast for a Heavy mech, hell my 3D pushes 87 kph but whatever speed you have is mitigated by the sheer size of the QD profile making it absurdly easy to track.

Like the dragon there is no point in making it go fast, as no matter how fast you make it go you are still too damn slow to avoid getting your *** handed to you.

You can't actually bring MORE weapons to the fight, hell you don't even bring more armor, or better brawling capacity. The dragon isn't a great mech but it is miles above this.

That's before speed tweak. After tweak its over 104, which is more than 20kph faster than your 3D or about 25% faster.

It's plenty fast to avoid getting stomped, especially with the jumpjets to allow you to go up cliffs and over buildings, so long as you're aware enough to know when to retreat. If you just sit there taking it until you're already open you'd need light mech speed to save you.

I don't care how easy it is to hit the QuickDraw "anywhere", its absurdly easy to hit every mech in this game "anywhere", even 150kph jumping spiders.
The quickdraw, piloted well, is hard to hit in a specific section, which is what gives it the survivability.

Edited by One Medic Army, 21 June 2013 - 02:26 PM.

[Carrioncrows]

Bishop Steiner, on 21 June 2013 - 02:19 PM, said:

Hoppin Hammer
Mine ain't exactly dancing as a support mech. I tend to run it as an ll purpose stopgap.
(will be upgraded to this Hammer2 once I get a new 300XL.... since I appear to have misplaced mine)

Ain't claiming it's perfect, but the mech is better than people give it credit for, IMO.

As pleasing as that design is there is a few housekeeping things you might consider doing unless you just like it cause it resembles a warhammer.

Drop the ppc's from the arms and put them in the torso's, they are higher and you won't kiss dirt when gopher bob'n in snipe wars. It also gives you the mediums on your arms to track lights when they get in close and when your arms get blown off you don't lose your main firepower.

With only 16 DHS you are still running very hot and in close you simply can't put out enough damage and you leg armor should always be maxed over your arms. As I was saying above "NOBODY" aims for anything other than legs on a QD, at least not in my ELO bracket, no point.

Anyways just a few thoughts.

[Bishop Steiner]

Carrioncrows, on 21 June 2013 - 02:31 PM, said:

As pleasing as that design is there is a few housekeeping things you might consider doing unless you just like it cause it resembles a warhammer.

Drop the ppc's from the arms and put them in the torso's, they are higher and you won't kiss dirt when gopher bob'n in snipe wars. It also gives you the mediums on your arms to track lights when they get in close and when your arms get blown off you don't lose your main firepower.

With only 16 DHS you are still running very hot and in close you simply can't put out enough damage and you leg armor should always be maxed over your arms. As I was saying above "NOBODY" aims for anything other than legs on a QD, at least not in my ELO bracket, no point.

Anyways just a few thoughts.

Can't snipe from on high with them in the torso. Try it on a crystal formation in tourmaline and you are too limited. Though I admit, there are times I wish they were high mounted.
(also not gonna lie.. I like how they look in the arms.... )
I do fine with mediums and smalls against the lights, even in the torso. Also, last I checked (and since concise info is NOT the specialty of PGI, I could be wrong, lol), ELO bracket was a myth. They simply balance the total ELO of both teams. You are not necessarily dropping against better or worse competition.

Have only been legged once, btw.

That said, i drive it for the fun.

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 21 June 2013 - 02:45 PM.

[FERAL TIGER]

most people here seem to hat the QDW Does the speed not add to it's ability at all? Wouldn't it be a good capper/skirmisher?

[Angel of Annihilation]

FERAL TIGER, on 21 June 2013 - 04:20 PM, said:

most people here seem to hat the QDW Does the speed not add to it's ability at all? Wouldn't it be a good capper/skirmisher?

No most people don't hate the QD. Just ask in game when you see one and 90% of them will tell you they love it. The problem with the Forums is that the only time most people post is when they want to complain about something. The ones who like something rarely post.

Therefore you have a disproportionate amount of haters in most threads which is why your getting a very skewed impression about the QD.

[Wintersdark]

PropagandaWar, on 21 June 2013 - 06:58 AM, said:

Per the devs the cents arent bugged lmao. I agree with you 100% on that by the way.

They aren't bugged, but there is a reason they survive so long.

What happens is when you do damage to a destroyed section, only 50% of the damage is transferred inwards. However, in the case of a destroyed arm, debris is left. The amount varies per mech, but in the case of the Centurion it's pretty enormous and easy to hit. That still counts as an arm.

Destroy an arm? Further hits to the stub transfer only 50% to the side torso. Normal, makes sense.

However, where this gets sketchy is that if the side torso is destroyed, the damage transfers to the center torso... at 50%. 50% x 50% = 25%; so for every 10 damage you do to that arm stub, only 2.5 damage is actually inflicted to the center torso.

Video proof and discussion in this thread: http://mwomercs.com/...ost__p__2387806

Most informative are the linked post and (perhaps more importantly) the next two.

[Carrioncrows]

Viktor Drake, on 21 June 2013 - 04:30 PM, said:

No most people don't hate the QD. Just ask in game when you see one and 90% of them will tell you they love it. The problem with the Forums is that the only time most people post is when they want to complain about something. The ones who like something rarely post.

Therefore you have a disproportionate amount of haters in most threads which is why your getting a very skewed impression about the QD.

I would never presume to speak for other people, but "I" have only stated that "I" do not like it.

Well if most people here said "They" do not like the QD, then obviously they are just just the vocal minority and not to be trusted.

[Devil Fox]

I don't hate it... I just don't see the point of it... not enough armour, not enough weapons and speed is usless if you're as big as an assault mech. The thing is lackluster, especially in the higher ELO brackets where the alpha warriors play...

[InRev]

I genuinely cannot find a build that works in the thing. Granted, I don't have the super-Jenner variant, but rather the 4H but still. No matter what I throw in it, I keep coming to the same conclusions:

1) More speed and weapons means it runs intolerably hot
2) More speed and heat efficiency means fewer weapons. Thus I would be better served in a Cicada as its profile is waaaay smaller and it's more usefully quick (30+ kph faster with a weapons loadout that is not much lighter)
3) Less speed and lots of weapons and heat efficiency defeats the whole purpose of the thing and I should just use a K2

Like Carrion said, I just can't find a reason to use it. Even if it can go 100kph, it's such a monolith that it's just speed for repositioning (not speed armor like in a light) which means you get to the fight with fewer weapons to deploy, due to your huge engine. If it was smaller, I think I could learn to live with the sacrifices that one has to make with it. I would use it like a fat medium and be happy. The way it is right now though, it's just prohibitively large.

I wanted to like it. It could have been the perfect heavy for me (fast with decent weapons) but it just isn't working out and I think the size is the culprit.

[Bishop Steiner]

InRev, on 21 June 2013 - 06:36 PM, said:

I genuinely cannot find a build that works in the thing. Granted, I don't have the super-Jenner variant, but rather the 4H but still. No matter what I throw in it, I keep coming to the same conclusions:

1) More speed and weapons means it runs intolerably hot
2) More speed and heat efficiency means fewer weapons. Thus I would be better served in a Cicada as its profile is waaaay smaller and it's more usefully quick (30+ kph faster with a weapons loadout that is not much lighter)
3) Less speed and lots of weapons and heat efficiency defeats the whole purpose of the thing and I should just use a K2

Like Carrion said, I just can't find a reason to use it. Even if it can go 100kph, it's such a monolith that it's just speed for repositioning (not speed armor like in a light) which means you get to the fight with fewer weapons to deploy, due to your huge engine. If it was smaller, I think I could learn to live with the sacrifices that one has to make with it. I would use it like a fat medium and be happy. The way it is right now though, it's just prohibitively large.

I wanted to like it. It could have been the perfect heavy for me (fast with decent weapons) but it just isn't working out and I think the size is the culprit.

this version has treated me well
MiniHammer

the H has been largely a compromise for me. Gotta try the G next.

One thing I will say about the size (aside from IT IS TOO BIG) is that since we regularly see Jenners get nailed by 4-6 PPC from 1000m out, I don't think smaller size is really proving a huge saving grace as some think. It helps, but ain't a deal breaker for me.

[InRev]

Bishop Steiner, on 21 June 2013 - 06:48 PM, said:

this version has treated me well
MiniHammer

the H has been largely a compromise for me. Gotta try the G next.

One thing I will say about the size (aside from IT IS TOO BIG) is that since we regularly see Jenners get nailed by 4-6 PPC from 1000m out, I don't think smaller size is really proving a huge saving grace as some think. It helps, but ain't a deal breaker for me.

It probably doesn't help against the very best twitch players, but against the majority I would say that a smaller mech adds at least a few seconds of aim time on. Against a Quickdraw, one can just point in the thing's general direction and hit it. Against a Jenner, or hell, even a fat-Jenner Cicada, the shooter has to be a bit more careful with their aim. If that extra time, even if only a single second, is enough for me to scoot to cover, it did its job. In short, it's very easy to snapshot a Quickdraw. Not so much a smaller mech.

Plus, a small mech is easier to hide behind obstacles as there is less peaking out. Makes sneaking and peek-a-boom viable. Can't do that in a QD.

I'm going to try to gut it out and get my 4H's basics done so I can try the 5K, but I'm not confident.

[One Medic Army]

InRev, on 21 June 2013 - 06:58 PM, said:

It probably doesn't help against the very best twitch players, but against the majority I would say that a smaller mech adds at least a few seconds of aim time on. Against a Quickdraw, one can just point in the thing's general direction and hit it. Against a Jenner, or hell, even a fat-Jenner Cicada, the shooter has to be a bit more careful with their aim. If that extra time, even if only a single second, is enough for me to scoot to cover, it did its job. In short, it's very easy to snapshot a Quickdraw. Not so much a smaller mech.

Plus, a small mech is easier to hide behind obstacles as there is less peaking out. Makes sneaking and peek-a-boom viable. Can't do that in a QD.

I'm going to try to gut it out and get my 4H's basics done so I can try the 5K, but I'm not confident.

True, but a twitch-shot will land more or less randomly (probably on an arm in my experience), rather than drilling straight into the same side torso or CT as everything else.

[Koniving]

Apostal, on 20 June 2013 - 04:05 PM, said:

Their size is horrendous...
Their playable, but nowhere near what they are meant to bring... maybe 12v12 in faster lances with a Victor brawler

You assume the Victor can brawl. Bring an Awesome and try to brawl. We know every mech gets slightly fatter from the concept art. The Awesome is actually the same CT width as an Atlas, the side torsos are the same width, too, but the side torsos 'droop' more and thus are larger vertically. The Awesome's real flaw is the low level of maximum armor for an assault. Being in the same weight class the Victor will have identical maximum armor values. Thus, between the armor and the size, the Victor will not be ideal for brawling. If anything it'll be identical or similar to the Awesome.

The Quickdraw's CT is no wider than that of the Catapult and the Jagermech. The side torsos are also the same width. In comparison the Quickdraw's torso length is less than the Catapult, but equal to the Jagermech (when you count the "plates" sticking out of the Jager's shoulders).

Now if you were probing for flaws, then the real flaw of the quickdraw, actually, is the cockpit. Like the Catapult it suffers from an oversized cockpit box. I saw that one had a weak cockpit armor and I did a glancing stream of 6 small lasers while waiting for my cannons to recycle.. Insta-killed it!

Most quickdraws I've seen however are not going faster than 70 kph. Until they start going 92 or more kph they won't have much of a chance, Quickdraws are not meant for brawling. They have the same armor values as the Dragon.

Hit and runs. Fast attacks. Anti-light, anti-medium. In packs of 2 or more they'd make great heavy scouts or attack packs.

Other than length (thickness), the width of a Quickdraw and a Centurion is almost identical. Quickdraw and Dragon are identical in size (and animation). So I don't see what's so horrendous about its size. The only place it's bigger than any other heavy mech is its head, which is fat and wide. I kid you not you can probably fit one of the cars on River City inside of it.

Edited by Koniving, 21 June 2013 - 07:30 PM.

[InRev]

This mech keeps on finding ways to annoy me. Put an LRM20 and an LRM10 in the left torso. Physical tubes show a 10-pack and a 5-pack. Fine, 2 volleys works for me.

Pull the trigger . . .

A volley of 15, followed by 3 more volleys of 5.

Every time I try to rearrange the launchers they reset. ARGH.

Are you kidding me with this mech?

[Bishop Steiner]

InRev, on 21 June 2013 - 07:33 PM, said:

This mech keeps on finding ways to annoy me. Put an LRM20 and an LRM10 in the left torso. Physical tubes show a 10-pack and a 5-pack. Fine, 2 volleys works for me.

Pull the trigger . . .

A volley of 15, followed by 3 more volleys of 5.

Every time I try to rearrange the launchers they reset. ARGH.

Are you kidding me with this mech?

it just wants a hug

[FupDup]

Bishop Steiner, on 21 June 2013 - 07:47 PM, said:

it just wants a hug

Preferably from an Urbie.

[InRev]

Bishop Steiner, on 21 June 2013 - 07:47 PM, said:

it just wants a hug

I'm trying to love it, I really am. It just keeps pushing me away.

I think we need relationship counseling.

[Dracol]

Seems 4 x ppc quickdraws were popular tonight. Annoying things that can get to good vantage points quickly.

The 4 large laser builds are easy to hit cause of the time on target they require. The ppc builds though can shoot and scoot very well.