28 replies to this topic

[Koujo]

Someone explain this to me. How can this possibly happen? There's no way this can be explained with ELO.

[Zephyre]

Koujo,

I hear ya mate. I made a similar post earlier in the week. Tonnage variance wasn't quite as large as yours, but it doesn't matter. Be prepared for the flamers will troll hard on your post.

Yeah, the introduction of ELO has borked the MM. Oh yes its working as intended, but its working in such a way as to make VERY UNENJOYABLE GAMES.

Teams should be matched by weight class, but with the introduciton of elo, tonnage is ignored, so you may have two highly ranked players on opposite sides, one brings an atlas, the other brings a jenner. If skil llevel is the same, tonnage becomes the deciding factor.

Anyhow, inb4 flaming.

[Koujo]

Yeah I know. Trolls are going to defend this somehow but if this isn't a case for weight balancing I don't know what is.

[SgtMaster]

definitely broken, how 2 atlas's from a Steiner scout lance got killed is beyond me, it should have been 8-0...
this game is heading into the pits with a ticket express, yet, our concerns will not be addressed until 3050...

I also like to notice the lack of JJ's mechs,
Shake is working as intended, people arent getting sick by the shake, duh, no one is using JJ's anymore...

Edited by SgtMaster, 21 June 2013 - 10:18 AM.

[Straygo]

ELO is based off your chances to win a match. it doesnt take into account mechs or stats. just wins. you win more, youre "score" goes up. you lose more your "score" goes down. alot of people think the match score is elo, and theyd be wrong.

[Ryvucz]

Made a thread about this particular thing in Off-Topic, Deep Periphery.

As the volumes of anger I posted in it, would not be allowed here.

But yes, ELO is a bad system for this game, and no they are not going to get rid of it.

They will tweak it and alter it but they believe it is best for what they want to achieve, e-sports.

[Tolkien]

The game is trying to match the elo of the individual pilots along with the tonnage (or class) of their mechs. The longer you have to wait to find opponents the more the matchmaker will widen the search parameters, so when the population is low you will get weirder and weirder matchups like that one.

What is that, a 300+ ton disparity?

That might be related to this: http://www.xfire.com/games/mwo

Back in December that averaged around 120-140, now it is down to 46. There are stagnation problems in this game and the active player base seems to be on the decline in the short and medium term.

[Mechsniper]

How can anyone think its a great idea to give you the worst teammates in MWO possible when you have only a marginally + k/dr >? I have a 1.24 k/d. I routinely get 2-4 kills in a game with 250-600 damage with 450ish being typical. My pugs are so bad I get stuck with it makes the game absolutely not fun. I am getting steamrolled 80% of my games roughly. This has a HUGE negative effect on my exp and cbill earnings when pugging. ELO is a broken idea and a socialism has no place in gaming imho. You shouldn't get a trophy for last place and these guys are being steamrolled when given one to two seasoned players just as badly as if they had all 8 pugs because this is a TEAM game. They are not able or uninterested to function as a team at the inexperience levels I see in game. I am getting tired of only having a team with a chance every 10'th or so game(usually because I round them up and get them pointed toward an idea of a strategy, sometimes ELO messes up and gives me 2 or 3 other good players). Place us in game randomly when we pug please. ELO is killing the game for those of us with experience. Even when dropping 4 mans the pugs seem to be monkeys in the pittsburg zoo or something. The game will not have players sticking around to spend more MC if they hate it after getting marginal at it. I really want to see MechWarrior continue, and despite some of my posts seeming sarcastic, my criticism is out of concern that if PGI muffs this up, that MechWarrior will be lost to the ages unfairly.

Edited by Mechsniper, 21 June 2013 - 01:10 PM.

[Tolkien]

Mechsniper, on 21 June 2013 - 01:04 PM, said:

How can anyone think its a great idea to give you the worst teammates in MWO possible when you have only a marginally + k/dr >? I have a 1.24 k/d. I routinely get 2-4 kills in a game with 250-600 damage with 450ish being typical. My pugs are so bad I get stuck with it makes the game absolutely not fun. I am getting steamrolled 80% of my games roughly. This has a HUGE negative effect on my exp and cbill earnings when pugging. ELO is a broken idea and a socialism has no place in gaming imho. You shouldn't get a trophy for last place ...

What are you proposing? That the matchmaker stick the good players on one team and the bad players on the other so the good players can curb stomp the new players every game?

[Pilotasso]

Zephyre, on 21 June 2013 - 09:36 AM, said:

Koujo,



Yeah, the introduction of ELO has borked the MM. Oh yes its working as intended, but its working in such a way as to make VERY UNENJOYABLE GAMES.

I don't get it, has MM ever worked??

[Deathlike]

Weight matching is nothing. See what I got:



To answer my own question: No, they weren't trolling.

I will say that they they took a "long" trip to Epsilon.. and had effectively surrounded the perimeter... except the enemy was capping Epsilon while this went on.

Suffice it to say... this is the true meaning of a broken MM/ELO Hell.

Edited by Deathlike, 21 June 2013 - 09:32 PM.

[Zephyre]

This whole game was better when they were basing matches off of mech class and not elo. At least when we were weight class balanced we knew who were the better pilots because they were winning. My win/loss and k/d has plummeted in this last week. I can count on one hand the number of games I've won, and I've played nearly 50 games last night alone.

And before you talk about me being a bad. You don't put a 150 lb boxer up against a 200 lb boxer. the little guy will just get wrecked no matter how good he is.

Edited by Zephyre, 21 June 2013 - 04:40 PM.

[Tolkien]

Zephyre, on 21 June 2013 - 04:39 PM, said:

This whole game was better when they were basing matches off of mech class and not elo. At least when we were weight class balanced we knew who were the better pilots because they were winning. My win/loss and k/d has plummeted in this last week. I can count on one hand the number of games I've won, and I've played nearly 50 games last night alone. And before you talk about me being a bad. You don't put a 150 lb boxer up against a 200 lb boxer. the little guy will just get wrecked no matter how good he is.

The current matchmaking problems are pretty hilariously bad (at least the ones where there's a 300+ ton difference between the teams), but the old only class based matchmaker had problems too. One I recall was during the Craven's day if you and a friend took a raven each you ensured that there were 2 lights on the enemy team. Those lights would more often than not be raven food.

Similarly if you took an awesome you were ensuring the enemy team had something up to 25% heavier and also better.

Edited by Tolkien, 22 June 2013 - 06:38 AM.

[Mechsniper]

I never said automatically put all good guys on one side, please don't put words in a post I didn't write. If it happens on occasion, so be it. It would be better than the pugs being rolled by teams with a 4 man constantly by far. When I pug, I am losing 80% it seems. My team would be better if I could train the monkeys at the zoo to play than pugging. This is no doubt due largely to ELO. If I get 7 noobs in random, I would be happy, as the frequency would be much less than in ELO. I would rather see ACTUAL weight be the matchmaking factor. Matching up as close as possible rather than by class due to the Awesome=Atlas fail system we had before. L2P is much the solution for the ELO problem. New guys should not expect to jump in the game and steamroll the experienced players. Good players are feeling the suck badly right now due to a bad matchmaking decision, and the sad thing is it did not help the new guys one bit.

[NeoFighter]

But now for a limited time, pay up to 80$ to get your hands on the Phoenix project

[Wildstreak]

Koujo, on 21 June 2013 - 09:11 AM, said:

Someone explain this to me. How can this possibly happen? There's no way this can be explained with ELO.

1 more Atlas than when I had 5 on a team.
I believe it sucks harder in Assault, I have found in Conquest many times in the past couple of days I am placed on a team with Zero, One, maybe Two Assaults but the majority of the team is Mediums, Lights and Heavies usually fast ones (60 tons or less). Of course the enemy has Assaults.

Currently, the only way to win that fight in Conquest is to keep caps up, I have spent a lot of time capping in a 50 ton HBK-4SP and always chat at match start about this.

When a Hunchback has to cap a lot to win, you know something is odd.

[FREDtheDEAD]

Yeah, you beat my worst experience by 1 Atlas. 90% of games I play are 8-2 or 8-3 games now - was much better six months ago.

Edited by Xajorkith, 26 June 2013 - 06:44 AM.

[Asmosis]

maybe the MM should just find 16 players of equal skill level, THEN divide them into teams going 1-2-1-2-1-2-1-2-1-2-1-2-1-etc from heaviest to lightest, pretty simple.

Premades would have to be in their own queue for that to work.

Edited by Asmosis, 26 June 2013 - 06:51 AM.

[FREDtheDEAD]

Tolkien, on 21 June 2013 - 01:17 PM, said:

What are you proposing? That the matchmaker stick the good players on one team and the bad players on the other so the good players can curb stomp the new players every game?

It's a good point but an ideal situation is if teams have equal numbers of newbies and veterans each.

An enhanced newbie distribution system is needed!

Perhaps the teams can be rebalaced as a LAST stage of the MM process instead of during it - ie get enough players connected to a game, then sort them into teams.

[Bigboij]

ill admit the elo only is f'n the matches up, my squad is stuck on playing 4 man heavy/assault to stay competitive with our ELO levels cause if anyone brings a light/med its almost always against a 4 man heavy/assault lance on the other side putting you at a disadvantage.