23 replies to this topic

[Black Alexidor]

I've been switching between 2 builds and can't seem to settle on one or the other.

Build 1 Build 2

UAC5's are great but unweidly when I am tanking in a mass firefight.

Please be objective and only suggestions that tweak or rework these builds.

Edited by Black Alexidor, 22 June 2013 - 05:46 AM.

[Modo44]

Consider dropping Artemis at least from the SRM4s to re-add some leg armor. I would also move the ammo to the arms, thus freeing up another ton (C.A.S.E.). Other than that, go with what feels better.

If you want a really good punch, twist, punch dynamic, nothing beats the AC20. It is also lighter than the dakka, so you could mount large lasers and/or go faster.

[POOTYTANGASAUR]

i run a 3 ac5 muromets and carry 5 tons of ammo (less than you). I rarely run out so i would say you can drop 2 tons of that ammo and use it somewhere else. Also because of how accurate srms are now i find Artemis to be useless unless you have lrms. Which means you have 5 tons so you could run uac5s with 5 tons of ammo and 3 srm6s like this: http://mwo.smurfy-ne...e671043388e1525 These are my brawler d-dcs very fun: http://mwo.smurfy-ne...babd42b25236a28 - Chain fire the lbxs and then stagger fire with them and srms and the screen-shake is devastating enough to practically remove any non-experienced players from play. and this: http://mwo.smurfy-ne...e081329a9851e72 - Fast and heavy punch, very fun and runs cool.

[Wintersdark]

I'd got with the UAC5 build - in an Atlas, you're going to be the center of peoples attention no matter what.

I'd definitely strip out the Artemis, and use that tonnage for SRM6's instead - or ammo if you find that's an issue. After the last change, artemis is of limited value in SRM's.

Also, I'd move a lot more armor front facing (I assume that you just left the defaults in Smurfy's, as I typically do); generally speaking I find I never, ever die in assaults to rear attacks, it's always front CT coring after losing both torsos, and I never have more than 20 armor in my rear CT - at least 100 front CT armor. Just don't let people get/stay behind you; if necessary, keep your back to terrain. YMMV, of course.

I run a similar build, but I've never managed to use that much ammo. Either I've lost my side torso with the UAC5's, or I've won. That depends more on your accuracy and defensive techniques than anything else though. Never more than 5 tons. I'd lose a ton or two, such as from the RT and it's CASE to save some mass, then put it into a slightly larger engine and/or a smidge more armor.

[SchwarzerPeter]

I wouldn't drop the Artemis, it makes the Srms more acurate up to 200+ m.
I would suggest that you drop a ton of ammo or a DHS for some leg armor (maybe the ammo from the head, a lukey ac20 hs will kill you otherwise).

So there is not much to improve if you like to stick with the dual dakka

[JigglyMoobs]

I'd suggest switching out the UAC5s for an AC/20 . I tried UAC5s on the Atlas but dropped them. There were several problems:

• They jammed too easily
  
• They are on your torso so it's harder to shoot over obstacles with them if you are trying to shoot from cover.
  
• The SRMs are also on your torso, but the projectiles move at a different speed than the UAC5s. So if someone is not standing still or walking straight towards or away from you, you have to shoot the UACs for a while. Stop. Twist torso, shoot the missiles. Stop, twist torso, shoot UACs again.
  
• When you shoot the UAC5s they are doing 10 pts damage per salvo. You also have to lead your target. If someone is moving, your shots end up landing all over them, instead of in one spot.

With the AC/20, you shoot it once, then you can immediately work on setting up your torso for the missile shots, then you just shoot off the MLs on your arm, and repeat. If you are behind cover, you need to only pop out briefly to do 20 pts of damage + what ever you can get in with the SRM. Of course, everyone else has that build also, so it gets boring.

Between the UAC5 and AC/5 I'd chose AC/5 for the reliability.

I'd try to work in a slightly larger engine like an STD 330 for the better acceleration and more responsive turning. If you do this you might have to go with Endo Steel.

You don't need the 4xSRM ammo or that much AC/5 ammo because I don't think you'll get a chance to use up all of them before you die, I'd get rid of weight to go for a larger engine and maybe a Beagle if you don't have the Adv sensor upgrade.

I would get rid of the AMS on the DDC because you don't usually get attacked with LRMs. If you are facing someone with TAG it might be different, but in that case you might just want to run away and attack from another direction.

Edited by JigglyMoobs, 22 June 2013 - 01:20 PM.

[Wintersdark]

JigglyMoobs, on 22 June 2013 - 01:11 PM, said:

I'd suggest switching out the UAC5s for an AC/20 . I tried UAC5s on the Atlas but dropped them. There were several problems:

• They jammed too easily
  
• They are on your torso so it's harder to shoot over obstacles with them if you are trying to shoot from cover.
  
• The SRMs are also on your torso, but the projectiles move at a different speed than the UAC5s. So if someone is not standing still or walking straight towards or away from you, you have to shoot the UACs for a while. Stop. Twist torso, shoot the missiles. Stop, twist torso, shoot UACs again.
  
• When you shoot the UAC5s they are doing 10 pts damage per salvo. You also have to lead your target. If someone is moving, your shots end up landing all over them, instead of in one spot.
  
• The weapons you will get to shoot most in a round as an atlas are actually the energy weapons on your arms, but in this case you only have 2xML.

With the AC/20, you shoot it once, then you can immediately work on setting up your torso for the missile shots, then you just shoot off the MLs on your arm, and repeat. Of course, everyone else has that build also, so it gets boring.



I actually use 2xLL with Gauss and SRM and get great damage output every round, but that's an entirely different playstyle.

My build runs 2 LL, 2UAC5's and 3 SSRM2's. That way, I don't need to worry about lining up both the SRM's and UAC5's, and the LL's are good for precision.

To address your points above, though... They don't jam at all if you don't hold the button down or tap it too soon. It's entirely possible to fire them at very high DPS (much more than an AC20) with no risk of jamming whatsoever. But importantly, it gives you options. Either push 9.1 DPS at minimal heat (compared to the AC20 at 5 and twice the heat), doing 10 points per 1.1 seconds vs. 20 damage every 4, or you can hold that button down and double that until you jam. Doublefiring is putting out roughly 4 times the damage every second - you don't want to do that in a standup brawl, but it's extremely effective when you have a limited window of engagement such as a mech running for cover, or whatever.

Where your shots land is entirely up to your skill. My shots nearly always land exactly where I want them to land (and unfortunately, so do my opponents').

Shooting dirt is a danger no matter which weapons are there, but at least with the UAC's you're wasting a lesser percentage of your ammo per shot compared to a AC/20.

Further, the UAC5's are doing that crushing damage at Gauss Rifle ranges. Hell, even if you fire till you jam, you're firing at the same range as a gauss rifle, doing vastly more damage. 2 UAC5's make a GR look like trash, and are substantially harder to destroy.

Edited by Wintersdark, 22 June 2013 - 01:20 PM.

[JigglyMoobs]

PS I actually think the best thing you can do for your team as a DDC Atlas in these days of the strong LRM is to provide ECM cover, so I tend to favor builds with a combination of long and short range capability.

[JigglyMoobs]

Wintersdark, on 22 June 2013 - 01:19 PM, said:

My build runs 2 LL, 2UAC5's and 3 SSRM2's. That way, I don't need to worry about lining up both the SRM's and UAC5's, and the LL's are good for precision.

To address your points above, though... They don't jam at all if you don't hold the button down or tap it too soon. It's entirely possible to fire them at very high DPS (much more than an AC20) with no risk of jamming whatsoever. But importantly, it gives you options. Either push 9.1 DPS at minimal heat (compared to the AC20 at 5 and twice the heat), doing 10 points per 1.1 seconds vs. 20 damage every 4, or you can hold that button down and double that until you jam. Doublefiring is putting out roughly 4 times the damage every second - you don't want to do that in a standup brawl, but it's extremely effective when you have a limited window of engagement such as a mech running for cover, or whatever.

So I must not have mastered the art of UAC5 firing. If you have 2 of them on your Atlas, how often are you supposed to press the firing button to get the max Jam free output?

Hit fire once every 1.1 seconds? Do you have them set on chain fire?

And do you shoot your LLs at all when you get into a brawl, or do you just fire UAC5s and the streaks?

Edited by JigglyMoobs, 22 June 2013 - 01:35 PM.

[Wintersdark]

JigglyMoobs, on 22 June 2013 - 01:28 PM, said:

So I must not have mastered the art of UAC5 firing. If you have 2 of them on your Atlas, how often are you supposed to press the firing button to get the max Jam free output?

Hit fire once every 1.1 seconds? Do you have them set on chain fire?

And do you shoot your LLs at all when you get into a brawl, or do you just fire UAC5s and the streaks?

Not chain fire. Chain fire will jam them, as it cycles every... half second, I think? Pretty sure it's every .5s. Thus, fire, 0.5, fire 2, 0.5, fire 1 again - that's 1.0s, and you need 1.1s to not jam.

Just tap the fire button when the red cooldown bar hits the end to fire again(every 1.1s), or make an AHK macro to time them to 1.1s, and group fire of course so you're essentially firing one round for 10 damage.

As to what weapons, depends on aim. I fire the LL's most of the time, unless I'm running really hot - the UAC's generate little heat, so I keep them firing as much as possible.

Generally speaking, I'll fire whichever weapons are best for the situation. Generally, it's very hard to hit a speedy light with torso mounted ballistics (unless he's stupid and stops/runs directly towards or away from you or whatever), so I'll use the lasers and SSRM's. Focus on the UAC's and Lasers with heavier mechs, everything when it can all hit and heat allows, etc.

Edited by Wintersdark, 22 June 2013 - 01:42 PM.

[Reported for Inappropriate Name]

this is what i use. had to lose a heatsink because of ecm changes but oh well.
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...4084cc1bc7c35a3

Edited by Battlecruiser, 22 June 2013 - 01:43 PM.

[Black Alexidor]

Thanks for the input I'd like to address a few things you all have brought up:

1. Front Facing Armor Ratio - Ive always had a 3:1 policy, but the atlas does take alot more up front, and I actually didnt adjust the torso and ct ratios on those smurfy links. Tanking involves taking alot of side and some back hits so I cant skimp too much on my rear armor. I will try adjusting more onto the front and see what kind of results I get.

2. Artemis - I'm surprised to hear so many of you say "scrap the artemis". I have found it to be near essential on slower moving mechs to land full salvos on targets over 200m, as one of you had mentionned above. Perhaps not as useful on the SRM4s, but certainly on the 6's imo. Don't think I'll strip them off.

3. Leg Armor: 52 is the lowest I go on the Atlas. I have been piloting this chassis since closed beta and I can count on my hands how many times I have been legged, pugging or in comp. Any of you running over 60 armor on your legs may want to shave some off and save on some tonnage.

4. AC/20 - My Founders Atlas is my twist & punch mech with the LL/ac20/srm combo, I used to run it on my DDC before the ECM hardpoint nerf, but since, I don't like the way I have to cram loadout on it. (everyone has a different mech building philosohpy)

5. Ammo - I was concerned about how much ammo I needed for the standard 5's. With the UACs I have always found 6 to be the minimum for 2 UACs, but wasn't sure about the 5's. I'll drop 1-2 tons and add it to engine or something, maybe BAP, but seems kind of redundant. I don't really use them for the sniping game, more for harassment as I close the gap, so I can probably get away with having less than I currently run.

POOTYTANGASAUR, on 22 June 2013 - 08:59 AM, said:

and this: http://mwo.smurfy-ne...e081329a9851e72 - Fast and heavy punch, very fun and runs cool.

I modified your BUIILD very minorly, got you up to a 350 and 3% cooler I have a similar one in my list of alt builds.

Edited by Black Alexidor, 22 June 2013 - 02:24 PM.

[Wintersdark]

Black Alexidor, on 22 June 2013 - 02:24 PM, said:

Thanks for the input I'd like to address a few things you all have brought up:

1. Front Facing Armor Ratio - Ive always had a 3:1 policy, but the atlas does take alot more up front, and I actually didnt adjust the torso and ct ratios on those smurfy links. Tanking involves taking alot of side and some back hits so I cant skimp too much on my rear armor. I will try adjusting more onto the front and see what kind of results I get.

You don't want to be tanking. You shouldn't really be taking much rear fire whatsoever. I'd recommend, though, just gradually moving it forwards. Keep doing that till you find you start dying repeatedly to rear fire - I bet, unless you do foolish things like push too far forwards, you'll find that you're still dying to front CT coring far more often than rear coring.

I've seen a lot of people use 1 armor on their rear torsos very effectively (this requires rethinking how you play, of course). Your opponents don't know, of course - so long as you have at least 1 armor there, you show armor to the rear. I don't go that far, but what I did was keep moving armor to the front until I started dying at least as much to rear coring than front... And seriously, it took a long time to get there.

Quote

2. Artemis - I'm surprised to hear so many of you say "scrap the artemis". I have found it to be near essential on slower moving mechs to land full salvos on targets over 200m, as one of you had mentionned above. Perhaps not as useful on the SRM4s, but certainly on the 6's imo. Don't think I'll strip them off.

They changed the SRM flight paths with the last patch. It used to be that SRM's "shotgunned" out in a cone - that is no longer the case. Now, they spread to a given radius and go no further, so even without Artemis SRM's are equally effective from 100m out. It's a very important change that a lot of players who've been using Artemis are entirely unaware of.

Artemis does tighten the spread, but it comes at a very large cost. It used to be that SRM's without artemis where largely useless outside of 150m or so, but that is no longer the case. Take a mech you have with, and one without, into the training grounds and fire a 6pack. Watch the patterns, and how they fly.

Artemis is no longer as clearcut as it once was.

Quote

3. Leg Armor: 52 is the lowest I go on the Atlas. I have been piloting this chassis since closed beta and I can count on my hands how many times I have been legged, pugging or in comp. Any of you running over 60 armor on your legs may want to shave some off and save on some tonnage.

Yup. I don't think I've *ever* been legged in an Atlas. I'd laugh if I where, that's a ton of damage put into slowing down a slow mech - sure, you can't get around pretty much at all anymore, but that's damage that could have gone to limiting my ability to deal damage or kill me outright. I'd far rather take hits in my legs.

[Reported for Inappropriate Name]

also, then there's this classic...

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...d7ec84041d1b30a

[Black Alexidor]

Wintersdark, on 22 June 2013 - 02:36 PM, said:

You don't want to be tanking. You shouldn't really be taking much rear fire whatsoever. I'd recommend, though, just gradually moving it forwards. Keep doing that till you find you start dying repeatedly to rear fire - I bet, unless you do foolish things like push too far forwards, you'll find that you're still dying to front CT coring far more often than rear coring.

I've seen a lot of people use 1 armor on their rear torsos very effectively (this requires rethinking how you play, of course). Your opponents don't know, of course - so long as you have at least 1 armor there, you show armor to the rear. I don't go that far, but what I did was keep moving armor to the front until I started dying at least as much to rear coring than front... And seriously, it took a long time to get there.

Yea, one of my teammates uses 5 RearTorso and it works great for his playstyle. I don't always tank but need to sometimes so I like to have the option if it comes down to it. But I will keep readjusting until I notice i die of RT dmg as you suggested.

As for Artmeis, it is really player/playstyle dependant now, you are right, but I think its worth it on x3 SSRM6's on a slower moving mech, such as the Atlas in this scenario. Might take it off the UAC build and see if i can boost up to a S325 engine.

Thanks for your help.

[Corvus Antaka]

I'd only go with artemis if you use LRMS. easy on the ammo, and AC/20 of uac 5 because you need less ammo and tonnage. if you can cram a 325 in the atlas has a lot more jump too. if you have a team covering your back, anything from 20 to 5 rear armour is pretty acceptable. I like about 14 rear armour, otherwise a boat can kill you in 1-2 shots from behind. really depends on your playstyle and if you stay close to buildings that can cover your back.

[kilgor]

The thing about your designs is that the weapons are primarily short range, so you only real ranged response are the 2 AC/5s/ UAC/5s and they will get taken out fast. Even with a 300 engine, the Atlas is slow, so you might as well pack more of a variety of weapons, like so.

AS7-D-DC

The Large Lasers and LRM-10 give you additional ranged firepower and the Streaks help ward off the Lights. I prefer the dual AC/5s over the UAC/5s because they never jam and they weigh less.

[Malavai Fletcher]

The thing i find with the Atlas is it is built to soak damage,torso twisting and shielding your torsos with your arms can greatly improve your survivability,with UAC's and lasers your forced to spend more time showing your CT to get the full benefit of the weapons.

AS7-D-DC

I can fire and instantly twist to hide my torso,i do 35 points of pin point damage at 540m and 62 points between 270m and 90m,below 90m my PPC's grade off a bit but not nearly as badly as some people seem to think.

Now it does run hot,but the only map it really gives me a problem is tourmaline,just be weary how much it spikes with the PPC's and it is fairly easy to keep the thing up and running.

[Munk8]

I like this ddc, or slight variations thereof.

LL for starting a fight. Ac20 and srms for when brawl ensues. Torso twist like a champ. Your 68 arm armor is more that most mechs have on their ct/bt combined.

Good times

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...33f128d5e0573ad

[Black Alexidor]

What do you think about side torso armor? Right now I am running 64/20 on my sides and 99/25 on my center. I know the ballistic side goes first and was thinking of upping it to 69/15.

Also, a few things to add. I play and have minded these build for competitive (which our clan has been fully active in since RHoD), so no LRMs or PPCs for my role. The suggestions are appreciated, but I am very specifically looking for tweaks for my given builds. I have 4 Atlases in my mech hanger all with diverse roles and loadouts, some of which have been mentionned here. So, I am not looking for new builds, jsut modificaitons on those 2 current ones to help me make a final desicion on one or the other.

I want to bring up Artemis again. Since the fligh path change I have done extensive testing in Training Grounds and found that 60-75% of an SRM18 salvo will hit a heavy/assualts over 200m without artemis. With artemis I can hit 100% of a salvo on light mechs at full distance. Alot of pilots only use SRMs within that 200m range for heat/easier tracking purposes, but I truly feel on this SRM18 pack it is worth the tonnage. With the 3xSRM4 you can take it a step further if you are a good shot and hit 1-2 hardpoints with a full salvo since they are packed even tighter. Since I am using AC5s/UAC5s I have to front face alot more and can watch/track my targets easier for lining up my SRMs.

Once again, I must state everyone has different playstyle and mech building philosophy, so what works for some may not work for others. I am trying to expand my knowledge unto our player base in case there is are certain synergies I am not seeing.

Thanks again for all your input