34 replies to this topic

[LordBraxton]

pugged a lot tonight to have fun with the quickdraw

I've been experiencing a ton of matches tonight with a 4man on my team, and several with the enemies

almost every single time the 4 man has consisted of all stalkers and highlanders

all this shows me is what I already know (these are the most competitive mechs right now)

but all the matches where they were on my team, we greatly outweighed the enemy

and vice versa

every match with a 4 man assault premade caused the weight balancing to fail completely


regardless, many of my wins tonight felt hollow, and losses felt cheap

due to weight differences of 100-200 tons...

on the same note, on the rare occasion a 4 man joined with all lighter mechs (saw a 4 jenner team) that team ended up being terribly outweighed...

is this lack of players? or some flaw in the elo system?

[PEEFsmash]

CAN CONFIRM!

*provides text-only sobstory of his tiny personal sample size*

[Alekzander Smirnoff]

This its what you get when the match maker passes the roughly 75 second mark and throws any hope of a balanced match out the window in favor of throwing you in a game with 15 other players instead of "no match found."

[LordBraxton]

PEEFsmash, on 22 June 2013 - 07:55 PM, said:

CAN CONFIRM!

*provides text-only sobstory of his tiny personal sample size*

how is this a sob story?

weight matching sucks

they need to fix it

trust me I have no issues with 4 mans, I wish they would allow 5-7 mans again, might breathe some life into the community

Alekzander Smirnoff, on 22 June 2013 - 07:57 PM, said:

This its what you get when the match maker passes the roughly 75 second mark and throws any hope of a balanced match out the window in favor of throwing you in a game with 15 other players instead of "no match found."

I am noticing the worse the wait, the worse the weight balance

[Alekzander Smirnoff]

That is exactly it, exactly how the match maker works. If it finds people that match you quickly (0-20 seconds) the matches are generally balanced weight and skill wise. The longer it takes for you to reach a match it then actually is NOT a match, its a "last ditch effort" to put you into a game before 120 seconds is reached which at that point is a no match found.

At what point do you draw the line per say?

Ideally weight and relative skill would be matched for everyone but this requires a lot of time. Realistically nobody wants to really wait that long so its more of a best effort approach to get you into a game that is roughly balanced if it can do so under a minute, if longer then it begins to skew into pugstomp range.

[LordBraxton]

Alekzander Smirnoff, on 22 June 2013 - 08:20 PM, said:

That is exactly it, exactly how the match maker works. If it finds people that match you quickly (0-20 seconds) the matches are generally balanced weight and skill wise. The longer it takes for you to reach a match it then actually is NOT a match, its a "last ditch effort" to put you into a game before 120 seconds is reached which at that point is a no match found.

At what point do you draw the line per say?

Ideally weight and relative skill would be matched for everyone but this requires a lot of time. Realistically nobody wants to really wait that long so its more of a best effort approach to get you into a game that is roughly balanced if it can do so under a minute, if longer then it begins to skew into pugstomp range.

My waits are usually 30 seconds or less...

but most of my games are about 100+ tons of imbalance

honestly I think it has gotten this bad because the playerbase has shrunk so much

[Tarl Cabot]

Player base, but there is also no real restrictions on what a player can pilot either. But then this game the lore is built on unit cohension, not a lone wolf. Bounty Hunter is the exception.

Edited by Tarl Cabot, 22 June 2013 - 08:35 PM.

[BaconFat]

Tarl Cabot, on 22 June 2013 - 08:29 PM, said:

but there is also no real restrictions on what a player can pilot either.

Indeed...the idea that any noob can download and play any relevant or p2w (misery) mech is bad for the MM as well. A tier system would make a progression say from lights to assaults. Then ofc get a MM that accounts for tonnage and it would balance out the noobs vs. experienced and weight issues at the same time. or not.

[Oderint dum Metuant]

BaconFat, on 22 June 2013 - 08:56 PM, said:

Indeed...the idea that any noob can download and play any relevant or p2w (misery) mech is bad for the MM as well. A tier system would make a progression say from lights to assaults. Then ofc get a MM that accounts for tonnage and it would balance out the noobs vs. experienced and weight issues at the same time. or not.

The misery isn't P2W, it's pretty standard and has a fairly significant flaw.

[Pando]

DV McKenna, on 23 June 2013 - 01:39 AM, said:

The misery isn't P2W, it's pretty standard and has a fairly significant flaw.

Agree. Does have a significant flaw. I thought using Misery was my best stalker. Turns out I preform better in the 5S and 3F.

However, my highest damage/kill count game in the past 1 month was scored with a Misery during the 1st day of the most recent tournament. 8 kills and 1437 damage . I do not believe that same score is possible on a different stalker in that exact same game due to heat.

The gauss is soooooo valuable. I was even running 1 back armor

If only I had more time to grind out 200+ games like the rest of the leader board....

LordBraxton, on 22 June 2013 - 08:22 PM, said:

My waits are usually 30 seconds or less...

but most of my games are about 100+ tons of imbalance

honestly I think it has gotten this bad because the playerbase has shrunk so much

looking at heat-maps

print-screened and played back in video format.

there is a slight decline in deaths over a period of time

however it is to hard to tell if players are leaving

and not coming back period

or are taking breaks during days they work v/s days off

safe to say player base fluctuates

I can say, I had never dropped solo

But decided to opt into this tournament and try solo que'ing

I did have the most balanced matches solo'queing

I did have the most imbalanced matches group'queing

[Gaan Cathal]

LordBraxton, on 22 June 2013 - 08:22 PM, said:

My waits are usually 30 seconds or less...

but most of my games are about 100+ tons of imbalance

honestly I think it has gotten this bad because the playerbase has shrunk so much

100 tons isn't actually that bad. The current alphameta is giving high-tonnage mechs an advantage, but that may or may not become less prevalent in a patch's time.

BaconFat, on 22 June 2013 - 08:56 PM, said:

Indeed...the idea that any noob can download and play any relevant or p2w (misery) mech is bad for the MM as well. A tier system would make a progression say from lights to assaults. Then ofc get a MM that accounts for tonnage and it would balance out the noobs vs. experienced and weight issues at the same time. or not.

There's no progression from lights to assaults. If a game with set team sizes is going to work, all weight bands need to be equally viable.

Compare the current 1st place scores for Lights, Heavies and Assaults in the tourney. Then tell me there's a significant 'progression'.

Actually, if anything we should give the newbies Assaults and let them progress to Lights. The latter actually require attention to pilot after all.

[Lupin]

Sadly we already know Match Maker is FUBAR, this forum is littered with team balance problems.
And yes 4 man pre-made teams are part of the problem. Match Maker too complex for it's own good, and some basic rules need to be added.

The fact the PGI/Devs have done NOTHING to sort this out (Month+), just makes me play less. Having asked 3 times in "Ask the Devs" what the problem is and when it will be sorted.

[Inkarnus]

problems can be:
-to less players
-to clumped up elo
-alot of bad players still having decent elo even if they dont deserv
-games arent won by skill mostly by tonnage imbalanced
-by 4 man exploiting / syncing and such
-all competetive players play assaults + ppcs
-mixing non competitive mech builds with trial mechs and try hardbuilds (AC40 yager etc.)
-alot of decent good players have ****** elo cuz even with a premade they get rolled 8v4
-all scout mech 4 man drops to get alot of assaults in team
- and so on
that stuff atleast i can think off and the list is atleast for me too long

Edited by Inkarnus, 23 June 2013 - 03:34 AM.

[A banana in the tailpipe]

Alekzander Smirnoff, on 22 June 2013 - 07:57 PM, said:

This its what you get when the match maker passes the roughly 75 second mark and throws any hope of a balanced match out the window in favor of throwing you in a game with 15 other players instead of "no match found."

Considering I can run to get a beer and come back before it finds a match for my medium and light mechs, the game simply doesn't have the population to sustain a proper balance.

[Hexenhammer]

BaconFat, on 22 June 2013 - 08:56 PM, said:

Indeed...the idea that any noob can download and play any relevant or p2w (misery) mech is bad for the MM as well.

Huh. I never knew putting 1 ballistic hard point on a 85 mech made MWO pay to win. I'll need to remember that the next time I kill one in my CBill Mech.

[BaconFat]

its p2w as it available in no other form and is very much competitive for endgame usage...don't be so ignorant. just as it was p2w to use gold ammo in tanks (not that I didn't use em ;p), of which the game acknowledged eventually and made them purchasable by in game credits. So again, don't be so ignorant.

Edited by BaconFat, 23 June 2013 - 01:59 PM.

[No Guts No Glory]

BaconFat, on 23 June 2013 - 01:54 PM, said:

its p2w as it available in no other form and is very much competitive for endgame usage...don't be so ignorant. just as it was p2w to use gold ammo in tanks (not that I didn't use em ;p), of which the game acknowledged eventually and made them purchasable by in game credits. So again, don't be so ignorant.

So being competitive with C-bill purchased mechs makes it p2w? Just lol.

[C E Dwyer]

LordBraxton, on 22 June 2013 - 07:54 PM, said:

pugged a lot tonight to have fun with the quickdraw

I've been experiencing a ton of matches tonight with a 4man on my team, and several with the enemies

almost every single time the 4 man has consisted of all stalkers and highlanders

all this shows me is what I already know (these are the most competitive mechs right now)

but all the matches where they were on my team, we greatly outweighed the enemy

and vice versa

every match with a 4 man assault premade caused the weight balancing to fail completely


regardless, many of my wins tonight felt hollow, and losses felt cheap

due to weight differences of 100-200 tons...

on the same note, on the rare occasion a 4 man joined with all lighter mechs (saw a 4 jenner team) that team ended up being terribly outweighed...

is this lack of players? or some flaw in the elo system?

Had a game tonight, thought I got a snapshot of it but fraps was off, the 'red team' had in its mix Atlases1 stalkers 2 highlanders 2, quickdraws 1, jagermechs 1, blackjacks 1.

blue team

stalkers 1 quickdraws 2 dragons 2 jagermechs 1 blackjacks 1 the last mech I don't remember but after the stalker, and the JM the dragons and the quickdraws were the heaviest mechs, it might have been a cent

Now how can this reguardless of skills or lack of them be fun. seriously PGI you have got to stop this imbalance in the teams or this game is history, dosn't matter what you put in to make this game newb friendly, this if its not fixed very soon will destroy any chance you have of increasing numbers,

fix it please..this has to be priority over everything else if you can't get reasonably close tonnage weight in the same map, then you can't use the battles metric as a base for weapon blances

[BillyM]

"can confirm"

*doesn't confirm squat*

Want to NOT be a big fibber? 5 drops assaults, 5 drops 1/1/1/1, 5 drops lights

Throw it in a spreadsheet and tada, you "confirmed" something...

--billyM

Edited by BillyM, 23 June 2013 - 02:48 PM.

[LordBraxton]

BillyM, on 23 June 2013 - 02:47 PM, said:

"can confirm"

*doesn't confirm squat*

Want to NOT be a big fibber? 5 drops assaults, 5 drops 1/1/1/1, 5 drops lights

Throw it in a spreadsheet and tada, you "confirmed" something...

--billyM

by I can confirm

I mean I can confirm all the evidence already presented

with my personal testimony only

if you want screenshots the forums are filled with other people telling the same story I am

whenever I hit printscreen in MWO, I get black\blank pictures