471 replies to this topic

[ryoma]

I honestly don't believe the people in charge of balancing have a proper read on the community pulse. It doesn't help that dev posts have been increasingly rare. It's like some higher up ordered radio silence.

[Victor Morson]

ryoma, on 27 June 2013 - 01:09 PM, said:

I honestly don't believe the people in charge of balancing have a proper read on the community pulse. It doesn't help that dev posts have been increasingly rare. It's like some higher up ordered radio silence.

Hey, this is an open call to anyone who has faced the devs in games.. can we start getting some posts relating to their loadouts? I want to see if they are intentionally running trash for PR reasons, or if they honestly believe their builds work in the current meta. The last several PGI I have run across are running silly MPL mixes with MGs and small scale LRMs.

Understanding what they think is good is the first step to figuring out where they lost their way, I think.

Edited by Victor Morson, 27 June 2013 - 03:34 PM.

[Valore]

Victor Morson, on 27 June 2013 - 03:34 PM, said:

Hey, this is an open call to anyone who has faced the devs in games.. can we start getting some posts relating to their loadouts? I want to see if they are intentionally running trash for PR reasons, or if they honestly believe their builds work in the current meta. The last several PGI I have run across are running silly MPL mixes with MGs and small scale LRMs.

Understanding what they think is good is the first step to figuring out where they lost their way, I think.

Umm... I'd like to point out seeing a dev is no indication of how/what they usually play.

I say this assuming people have already gathered most devs usually smurf.

And that I'm sure that when they're on their own accounts, they're well aware their every move is being scrutinised, so they just roll whatever.

[aniviron]

Victor Morson, on 27 June 2013 - 03:34 PM, said:

Hey, this is an open call to anyone who has faced the devs in games.. can we start getting some posts relating to their loadouts? I want to see if they are intentionally running trash for PR reasons, or if they honestly believe their builds work in the current meta. The last several PGI I have run across are running silly MPL mixes with MGs and small scale LRMs.

Understanding what they think is good is the first step to figuring out where they lost their way, I think.

I play with Brian Buckton on a regular basis, a few times a week at least (though haven't seen him in the last week). He runs a max-speed spider-5D with one PPC and jumpjets.

[Victor Morson]

Valore, on 27 June 2013 - 03:42 PM, said:

I say this assuming people have already gathered most devs usually smurf.

I used to think they took the horrible configurations to not advertise the best ones.

I now think they take the horrible configurations because they don't know they are horrible, though, based entirely on what has happened with balance since.

[Undead Bane]

Victor Morson, on 27 June 2013 - 11:59 PM, said:

I used to think they took the horrible configurations to not advertise the best ones.

I now think they take the horrible configurations because they don't know they are horrible, though, based entirely on what has happened with balance since.

Well, the new thought feel like utter stupidity from them. I don't really think they are THAT unlinked from reality, however it is still a possibility.

What saddens me is that the post has 17 pages, and not a single **** was given yet from the devs.

[Homeless Bill]

Undead Bane, on 28 June 2013 - 04:57 PM, said:

What saddens me is that the post has 17 pages, and not a single **** was given yet from the devs.

Bryan Ekman, on 28 June 2013 - 12:43 PM, said:

A: We communicate regularly, several times per day in fact. The forums are a really big place and we all spend time in different areas.

You and this thread are just in all the wrong places. Chill out and consider buying **** at a nice, deep discount.

[Hammerfinn]

Undead Bane, on 28 June 2013 - 04:57 PM, said:

What saddens me is that the post has 17 pages, and not a single **** was given yet from the devs.

First off, how do you know they don't give a ****? Last time a dev posted in a thread like this you guys jumped down his throat and started cross-posting your own hobby-horse issues. Can't blame them for not doing that again. So maybe someone reads this thread, thinks about it, thinks you're right, and is working to change things. But even if they're not...

Why should they give a **** about an amateur telling them they're doing their professional duty wrong?

Why should they talk to you at all?

This team has communicated more and more regularly than any other game I've played, especially one with so little staff. Riot does better, but they have a guy whose job is to manage the guys whose jobs are to manage the guys whose job is to talk to the playerbase.

This is 17 pages of whining and entitlement, and THAT is what makes me sad.

[Victor Morson]

Hammerfinn, on 28 June 2013 - 09:17 PM, said:

First off, how do you know they don't give a ****? Last time a dev posted in a thread like this you guys jumped down his throat and started cross-posting your own hobby-horse issues. Can't blame them for not doing that again. So maybe someone reads this thread, thinks about it, thinks you're right, and is working to change things. But even if they're not...

Twitter, the front page, anything. Something to acknowledge our problems.

Hammerfinn, on 28 June 2013 - 09:17 PM, said:

Why should they give a **** about an amateur telling them they're doing their professional duty wrong?

They don't have to listen, but this game will be in beyond sorry shape if it is still running this time next year if they don't. Or much sooner.

Hammerfinn, on 28 June 2013 - 09:17 PM, said:

Why should they talk to you at all?

You should get a job at Microsoft PR.

[Homeless Bill]

Hammerfinn, on 28 June 2013 - 09:17 PM, said:

Last time a dev posted in a thread like this you guys jumped down his throat and started cross-posting your own hobby-horse issues. Can't blame them for not doing that again.

Though I don't agree with Hammerfinn 100%, I get where he's coming from and this is one point I totally agree with. The community does truly have a bunch of loud, abrasive, entitled ******** that often jump on developer responses that aren't to their liking.

While I still think PGI should be the bigger men and continue to try to communicate where they can, it's gotta be pretty disheartening to see so many vitriolic posts that totally wouldn't pass the face-to-face test (**** you wouldn't say to someone's face).

[Victor Morson]

Homeless Bill, on 28 June 2013 - 10:14 PM, said:

While I still think PGI should be the bigger men and continue to try to communicate where they can, it's gotta be pretty disheartening to see so many vitriolic posts that totally wouldn't pass the face-to-face test (**** you wouldn't say to someone's face).

I'd gladly tell PGI face to face every single thing I'm telling them here. Hell, I wish I had the chance to. Even at my most.. acidic, and I have to admit I've been a little harsh lately, my only goal is to try to snap them out of this train wreck of a path they are going.

This isn't a case where people want content NOW NOW NOW; it isn't even a case of where you can go "It's a beta." It's a case where many feel the game is going away from anything resembling balance, and the devs have isolated themselves from this fact. It's hard to buy the line that things are doing better than ever when I'm recognizing more and more people from the forums in game, and I know personally of literally dozens of people who have retired purely because of this. I am not exaggerating. Dozens.

I don't want another 10 years of no MechWarrior but if PGI doesn't get a handle on the situation it is not going to end well. I'm riding this ship all the way down, but I'd rather it didn't sink at all.

[Jestun]

Homeless Bill, on 28 June 2013 - 10:14 PM, said:

Though I don't agree with Hammerfinn 100%, I get where he's coming from and this is one point I totally agree with. The community does truly have a bunch of loud, abrasive, entitled ******** that often jump on developer responses that aren't to their liking.

While I still think PGI should be the bigger men and continue to try to communicate where they can, it's gotta be pretty disheartening to see so many vitriolic posts that totally wouldn't pass the face-to-face test (**** you wouldn't say to someone's face).

I've worked in roles where I had to deal with the public.

Guess what? The public are a bunch of jerks, especially when offered anonymity. If they can't handle that then they need to hire people who can.

They need to accept that people aren't complaining because they want the game to fail, they want it to improve and succeed.

[Homeless Bill]

Victor Morson, on 29 June 2013 - 01:45 AM, said:

I'd gladly tell PGI face to face every single thing I'm telling them here.

This isn't a case where people want content NOW NOW NOW

I'm not talking about people like you or this thread in general (I've only read the OP and agree with quite a bit of it). I don't even have a particular instance or comment in mind. It's just **** that I read every day in various threads. Whiny, entitled, ungrateful, unconstructive ******** that makes me sigh ("another ******** sale?? FIX MY BUGS!1"). It is the people that want it NOW NOW NOW that ruin the developers' attitudes for the community at large. I'm not saying it should, but it does.

Jestun, on 29 June 2013 - 02:04 AM, said:

Guess what? The public are a bunch of jerks, especially when offered anonymity. If they can't handle that then they need to hire people who can.

They need to accept that people aren't complaining because they want the game to fail, they want it to improve and succeed.

That's easy to say when you're talking about a big developer with a real PR department. I'm not saying they shouldn't be better at rolling with the punches; I believe it's their job to fight through the trolls. That said, I understand why they're so reluctant to do much more than watch the forums.

Edited by Homeless Bill, 29 June 2013 - 03:48 AM.

[C E Dwyer]

Homeless Bill, on 28 June 2013 - 10:14 PM, said:

Though I don't agree with Hammerfinn 100%, I get where he's coming from and this is one point I totally agree with. The community does truly have a bunch of loud, abrasive, entitled ******** that often jump on developer responses that aren't to their liking.

While I still think PGI should be the bigger men and continue to try to communicate where they can, it's gotta be pretty disheartening to see so many vitriolic posts that totally wouldn't pass the face-to-face test (**** you wouldn't say to someone's face).

I partly agree with you and partly don't I don't hide behind these boards to be nasty at a safe distance, I frequently tell my boss he's an *** when he comes up with dumb idea's, twice we've got to the level of finger pointing, and had to be parted by his superior, and I still have my job because he is well..a donkies rear a good deal of the time, but he can come up with sound plans which is why he also hasn't been demoted, kicked sideways.

I think PGI cause about 50% of the angst on these boards by the feebly poor communiction skills they have. two examples the Orion and mech for Sarah, both changes extremely poorly announced, when the actual reasons, well one of them at least, were perfectly reasonable,changes, which would have had most of us going aww hell that sucks but wouldn't have had the vitrol thats been spouted here.

About a quarter are totally unjustifed attacks because the persons ball has been taken away and now they have to play another way.

An example is 3PV I don't think adding it is going to make this game easier to play and increase the playing population, which is the reason PGI have stated is going to be introduced. I hope my posts on it have been reasonable, but the hardcore community have basically stamped their feet and acted like kids no matter what ring fencing has been claimed to be put in place to preserve the game. Yes that ring fencing is about as reliable as a chocolate chastity belt in the summer time, for the 'promises' broken in the past, but it has been clearly explained.

The other 25% the juries out on that ..


I did notice the voting choices said weapon in the question, but guns in the selection, I'm not sure if this is a mistake and should read weapons, or the OP thinks that missiles are balanced, which they are not, SRMs have gone from being wildly OP, to a place where they are so nerfed an ERPPC/ERLL build is as good a brawler than a mech with srm/gun build, and can strip more armour at distance a small upgrade might help reduce the number of sniping turret builds.


Now where I don't agree with what I feel the OP is saying, and I could be wrong, is this bubble image, as it makes mention of how the dev are not, hardcore players, so does he think they should listen to the hardcore players, only, this is a business pattern for disaster, as the game has to be playable and fun for not just the top15% of the players but everyone, an over complex game will reduce numbers, in todays multi platform, massive play choice market, its why World of Warcraft totally eclipsed older harder platforms. as a business model, and profit generator, (game sucked IMO) like original EQ which was developed by sony talking to the elite players in japans point of view, as they held meets of these raiders. to discus the next expantions.

When your in the top 15% your not playing the machine your playing each other it dosn't matter if its MWO, star craft or Mahjong, the masses are the bread basket the bank account, the ones who are struggling to make the mech go up a hill and shoot strait are the ones keeping this game here.

I can understand the desire for a more complex harder game in the top flight, but if the game is to hard for the masses its going to fail.

Anyone remember Vanguard from Sigil games

Its basis for success was you don't want WoW, its to soft, EQ2 is a poor copy of everquest, we want the old hardcore style, spend a day recovering bodies from a raid wipe like it used to be

It failed, it had to be bought out by the company it was supposed to challenge, just so it could release and only survives as a low pop niche game because its owned by one of the largest corperations in the world, and with the games SOe have sold or closed I'm surprised its still here.

PGI havn't those kind of resources, so be careful what you wish for, you might get it

[Dmitri Valenov]

Maybe, just maybe, PGI rolls around in those "franken builds" because they enjoy them.

My builds aren't really optimized and I seem to do ok. Sure, 8 man groups still give me some issues sometimes, but PUGS and 4 mans I have more good than bad matches.

Also, in case you haven't heard.

Balance is still on-going. They need to get actual data to make proper balance decisions. I believe a PPC fix is incoming next patch and SRM buff is soon after.

Dmitri

[Stat1cVoiD]

The amount of {Noble MechWarriors} is too damn high.

The most funny thing: This game is only existent because of crowdfunding. And it has one of the worst dev<->community-communication I've ever seen.
If I develop a game with money from my own pocket it's another thing if I don't give a single **** about what the community thinks, than if this community gave me the starting capital.

[The Cheese]

Dmitri Valenov, on 29 June 2013 - 06:34 AM, said:

Maybe, just maybe, PGI rolls around in those "franken builds" because they enjoy them.

I sure as hell do. I love playing frankenmechs. I just don't expect them to be game winners.

Dmitri Valenov, on 29 June 2013 - 06:34 AM, said:

Balance is still on-going. They need to get actual data to make proper balance decisions. I believe a PPC fix is incoming next patch and SRM buff is soon after.

The problem isn't whether a balance pass is coming or not, it's about how long it's taken to get here. "We're gathering data", while perfectly valid as a reason for delaying action, is the equivalent of "sucks to be you" in the eyes of the player who gets 2-shot every other game. Every game session. For the past month and a half.

Edited by The Cheese, 29 June 2013 - 06:59 AM.

[8RoundsRapid]

Homeless Bill, on 28 June 2013 - 10:14 PM, said:

it's gotta be pretty disheartening to see so many vitriolic posts...

Once your game raises 5 mil, you are no longer allowed to play this card. They got filthy stinkin rich off of empty promises and outright lies.

Who gives a **** if PGI is disheartened?

Edited by 8RoundsRapid, 29 June 2013 - 07:35 AM.

[jakucha]

8RoundsRapid, on 29 June 2013 - 07:35 AM, said:

Once your game raises 5 mil, you are no longer allowed to play this card. They got filthy stinkin rich off of empty promises and outright lies.

Who gives a **** if PGI is disheartened?

They may be slow at making this game and balancing it, but at least they're doing it. Getting that emotionally upset over this doesn't help anyone.

[Zerstorer Stallin]

jakucha, on 29 June 2013 - 07:51 AM, said:

They may be slow at making this game and balancing it, but at least they're doing it. Getting that emotionally upset over this doesn't help anyone.

ECM, PPC, and sniper mechwarrior online, yes that's balance. This isn't about how poorly PGI is balancing the game, its how they are ignoring the community, taking the game away from the direction they promised, and not having the courage to say yeah the current heat and convergence is crap, we are scraping it and starting from scratch. They think losing money from the down time is bad, wait till they have to close their doors. This game has gotten worse since closed beta, not better. How in hades does that happen?!?