48 replies to this topic

[Moira]

Match Making versus skills versus loadouts and sheningas.

Example game were I was dead certain about loss:

Our drop team was the heavy/assaults ones and one spider w/o ECM and no one else had ECM either. Other teams ppls I know atleast 3 was dead certain to be running on ECM Atlasses and first view on the rest of their team on battlefield didnt give any target locks. The map was caustic valley. Their team was pretty well organised and they used those ECM very effectively so I asked how many of me team is a LRM's main user... FEK 4!!! 2x Catapults, Me on STK and One other cant remember. So after really boring start they flanked and headed for cap due they killed 2 of ous in the initial facing. BAP+TAG didnt help alot had to stay so ******** far away due PPC blasting. So the brave little Spider pilot ran into middle of them and popped Advanced UAV and he somehow made it back in fairly good condition, missing arms thou =).

= inside 2 minutes or pure LRM heaven me LRM70 at that time, Catapults atleast LRM90 together and that last one had I think LRM40. So you can imagine what happens next, those few that got out intact got chewed to pieces by 2x angry firebrands I did get dested, but we won. I dont have that screenshot here at hand but 5 outta their 8 had ECM ... =/ huh huh.

so yeah. neat isnt it.

Lesson in this is, that small little 40K/15MC module can totally change the games direction !

Edit: some damn typos

Edited by Moira, 26 June 2013 - 08:41 AM.

[Agent 0 Fortune]

Smart matchmaking algorithms were replaced by ELO, a feature which no one requested or liked, and one that is unsuited to effectively match teams, only individuals, and thus is completely defeated when forming a group.
(which is why ELO is used in Chess and not Football).

[jakucha]

People pretending matchmaker used to be better is like people pretending closed beta was better overall. Fairly common but inaccurate. MM isn't where it should be but it's not as bad as it used to be.

[Commander Farsight]

IMO the best way to fix this elo issue is to have MM balance the number of premade players on each team during searching for a match.

[No Guts No Glory]

Commander Farsight, on 27 June 2013 - 03:48 PM, said:

IMO the best way to fix this elo issue is to have MM balance the number of premade players on each team during searching for a match.

Everyone has been saying that since the first iteration of MM. PGI seems to think that group ELO will somehow magically put groups against groups rather than against pugs with an individual ELO rating at the same level.

And ELO should be based on damage dealt versus damage taken. At least that is more under an individual players control.

[Ghogiel]

BladeXXL, on 26 June 2013 - 05:39 AM, said:

That is not true!
You start with a ELO score of 1300 and can loose or win max. 50 points per match.
So if you s.u.c.k in every single game and loose 50 points, it takes 26 matches to land on ground zero!

all can be read here: http://mwomercs.com/...ost__p__1626065

50 points is the capped maximum. It would be very unlikely you will move more than a few points up or down after each match.

The only way to drop 50 points everytime is to some how magically get consistently matched up in games where the probability of you winning is 90%, and then lose those matches.

[Applecrow]

With fewer players dropping, the matchmaker has to take from a broader range of ELO.

[Voidsinger]

What is Elo in MWO?

It is the ability through inspiration, effective leadership, or just sheer bloodyminded individualism to save the win for the team.

The exception of course is 8-mans. The 8s have their own secret and mystical ways of ranking themselves (The Magic 8-Ball knows all).

As your Elo gets higher, you get more and more rubbish players until you can no longer save the day. Even teams are sorted out by cheese builds, ECM or by pure random map choice. Of course, a high Elo 4-man forces the quality higher.

That's all there is too it. Assault mechs get favoured, hence the need for weight classes. Failure to match team weights usually means a win for the heavier side.

Edited by Voidsinger, 28 June 2013 - 12:48 AM.

[Hauser]

Voidsinger, on 28 June 2013 - 12:47 AM, said:

As your Elo gets higher, you get more and more rubbish players until you can no longer save the day. Even teams are sorted out by cheese builds, ECM or by pure random map choice. Of course, a high Elo 4-man forces the quality higher.

That's all there is too it. Assault mechs get favoured, hence the need for weight classes. Failure to match team weights usually means a win for the heavier side.

********. Twice over.

You're paired up with and against player around your own Elo level. The match maker isn't trying to screw you over by putting lower elo people on your team to balance you out.

Rather what you're seeing is that as you're winning games you get placed with better players who'll exploit your mistakes more effectively. Either by shooting at you when you show yourself at the wrong moment or shooting your team mates when you don't show yourself at the right moment.

If you want to get a sense of perspective, create a new account and play the Champion Trial mech. If you're not getting out with 7 kills you're doing it wrong.

---

As for tonnage differences. Last time the community checked it didn't matter that much.

http://mwomercs.com/...__fromsearch__1

[Phashe]

Agreed it has some issues. I do not play my lights anymore.

I remember a proposal that involved some max tonnage per side number (like we did in paper-n-pen)... and every player would have a first, second, & third choice mech, all different weight claases. The game would make a group from that best it could. So for 8 mans, maybe 500t... or such.

I liked that .... a little suprise coming out of the dropship. :-)

(In the play we did, it could end up with 5 assaults vs. 8 mediums. Which was also fun...

Edited by Phashe, 28 June 2013 - 08:47 AM.

[p00k]

over a decade ago, there was an idea addressing just this. both teams would choose their mechs, then "lock in" their mech choice before the drop initiated. teams could see what tonnage mech the players on the other team had chosen, allowing them to adjust their mech choice back and forth until both teams felt comfortable with what they had locked in. then they'd launch.

that's right. mpbt3025 had lobbies. something we've been asking for for over 8 months now. but no, PGI decided to embark on an 8 month journey of futility and WASTED programmer effort with phase 1, 2, and 3 matchmaking, subsequent elo adjustments, rigid queue splitting between premades, etc. when all we needed in the first place was lobbies. thanks for listening to your community PGI

[simplex409]

Hi folks, I'm a noob.

Yep, just downloaded this game tonight and played it for the first time about an hour ago, whereupon I was utterly decimated the moment the enemy came into view. And again 5 minutes after that. And again. And again.

Not a big deal except that I, in my shiny new trial mech's first outing, was pitted against mechs that I could only dream of purchasing any time within the next six months driven by pilots that were lightyears ahead of my own meagre skillset.

The point is that noobs don't really enjoy being put up against people with months of experience and I'm at a loss as to why this should happen. There's a 25 match introduction in terms of CBills I believe? Surely during this time a player should be put up against other people in the same introductory phase and not dropped in with the wolves to lose heart and disrupt the veteran's fun?

Anyway, I just thought that it was kinda relevant to the conversation. Us noobs don't Want to be teamed up with or against veterans and I'm sure you vets don't want us messing up your games. Could we kinda get some seperation going on? Just for our first few matches, perhaps...

Right, well, with that said I'm gonna go back to getting my *** handed to me in the vague hope I manage to hit something. Just once.

[Foxfire]

Honestly, if they are keeping with ELO i'd like to see a combination of ELO with a tonnage range(e.g. +/- one class range) for match making..

In other words, I'd like to see it where if you are in a light, you can be matched against either a light or medium of the same elo level... same with assaults(assault or heavy)... this would also benefit mediums more because you guarantee the range is either light to heavy for your slot instead of being paired against an assault.

[BladeXXL]

Welcome simplex409 ... let me say:
this hapen in every other game too!

Playing PlanetSide 2 for the first 3 weeks was just a massacre on myself. I was smashed down not seeing who was shooting me again and again...
It was disapointing dispite the respawn abbility.

But now I'm the crac who nearly unstoppable shoots down everyone on my way! ... so it needs time and will to get better!

[simplex409]

Hi BladeXXL, thanks for the welcome!

I'm not complaining for myself - I played Planetside 2 as well, along with World of Tanks and countless others. The problem isn't that noobies get mangled but rather the fact that this is a matched game that's putting us up against veteran pilots the very first time out. Planetside got away with it a little in that it was an open world and could be forgiven. WoT tries to match up the tank tiers, but MWO seems to have some seriously iffy matchmaking is all.

I'm just thinking that folks will be very quickly put off if they're dying as soon as they try to play, and the veterans will get frustrated. Both points meaning that people quit, which is never a good thing.

Anyhoo, it was only a thought. I came on here originally looking for tips and tricks to help me stay alive and it seems to be working since my little medium mech scored some kills, but a lot of people won't bother and will just ragequit.

Still, I'm not a game dev or anything so I may be wrong

[Phashe]

I know that every single friend I have referred to MW:O dropped it quick and will not return due to being completely decimated 5-6 times. Even a few times with me trying to run interferance around them! LOL And some played MW2/3 also. But making a squishy world for newbies is not easy for PGI. I get that. I'm not slinging mud at them for it. Just an issue.

Lobbies - I like!

Play nice with your fellow pilots you see about you now: they are the only ones that will be playing a year from now. :-)

[Greyfyl]

If I lose a game even though I got 7 kills I still lose the same ELO as if I was afk....if I win a game even though I was afk I still gain the same amount of ELO as I would getting all 8 kills.

That sounds very half-assed to me. Least amount of effort scenario.

Edited by Greyfyl, 02 July 2013 - 06:39 AM.

[Weztside]

My clan has been logging on at the oddest of hours when there are the fewest people on and doing 8 man sync drops against pugs with great success. It also happens totally by accident when we drop with similar tonnage. It's not very fair for pugs to be going up against an 8 man team. Since we play together so much i'd imagine that our ELO ratings are very similar. It's not all that rare for me to paired with the same hand full of players for 2 to 3 matches, especially late at night. It doesn't seem very fair but we don't give a damn.

[Snowhawk]

Weztside, on 03 July 2013 - 01:11 AM, said:

My clan has been logging on at the oddest of hours when there are the fewest people on and doing 8 man sync drops against pugs with great success. It also happens totally by accident when we drop with similar tonnage. It's not very fair for pugs to be going up against an 8 man team. Since we play together so much i'd imagine that our ELO ratings are very similar. It's not all that rare for me to paired with the same hand full of players for 2 to 3 matches, especially late at night. It doesn't seem very fair but we don't give a damn.

Wow... what a honorable clan....
But finally it's pgi's fault because they don't improve the matchmaker. A simple solution would be that the matchmaker moves the second premade team into the other team before starting the match. However... selling the Phoenix package is more important for pgi... isn't it?

[Snowhawk]

And here is another gloriously example how fine the "matchmaker" works:

My team,pug, started with just 7 players and our only assault was an trial mech (the current Atlas trial mech).
The opponents of course had a complete team and.... they also had 4 Assaults (2 Stalkers and 2 Atlases)... GG!

Edited by Snowhawk, 05 July 2013 - 04:00 AM.