29 replies to this topic

[Tenpin]

So I'll say it- I hate it!

In its current state it is just too much. Given there is no counter to it and its extraordinary range, the tactical portion of the game is almost completely removed.

Stealth is gone. The use cover no longer offer a benefit beyond being a sandbag to block shots. ECM means nothing (it should at least disable it does everything else). Feinting one way and going another is an exercise in futility.

The module is almost ubiquitous now and it is forcing battlers to hang back even more or be greeted with an alpha to the face when they crest a hill or round a corner.

You have to leave some fog of war intact and let scouts scout, UAVs illuminate and most importantly not kill off the element of surprise.

Who needs a maze of buildings or a warren of gulches if those items offer nothing more than scenery?

[Stoicblitzer]

http://mwomercs.com/...he-tonnage-gap/

[PEEFsmash]

Here's my simple take. If people can negate with a single module the biggest advantage of lights and mediums which is mobility, surprise, and flanking, then I should be able to negate the armor and weaponry of assaults and heavies with a single module.

Until then, seismic should be 100 meters or less.

[Hexenhammer]

<insert obligatory L2P attack here>
Had to do that before someone else did.

On a more serious note there are countless posits about this issue. And as a player that always runs seismic I agree its overpowered but that's because "reality" hasn't been programmed into it.

Some of the suggestions that have been offered are.
Range based of a mech's weight.
"Ping" based off weight
"Ping" based off speed.
Interference from friendly mechs.
Speed of the me using the sensor. The slower its moving the better it works.

We can only hope PGI takes these suggestions and others into consideration and actually implement them but I won't old my breath.

Edited by Hexenhammer, 23 June 2013 - 07:10 PM.

[Homeless Bill]

PEEFsmash, on 23 June 2013 - 07:06 PM, said:

Here's my simple take. If people can negate with a single module the biggest advantage of lights and mediums which is mobility, surprise, and flanking, then I should be able to negate the armor and weaponry of assaults and heavies with a single module.

Until then, seismic should be 100 meters or less.

Try playing an Awesome 9M or any other large striker. What used to be brutal flanking maneuvers now end with a Stalker waiting for me to come around the corner. At least lights can run away. Mediums, Dragons, and the like got absolutely ****** by seismic.

[FupDup]

PEEFsmash, on 23 June 2013 - 07:06 PM, said:

Here's my simple take. If people can negate with a single module the biggest advantage of lights and mediums which is mobility, surprise, and flanking, then I should be able to negate the armor and weaponry of assaults and heavies with a single module.

Until then, seismic should be 100 meters or less.

Lostech Shield Consumable + Enhanced Imagining Aimbot

[Hexenhammer]

Homeless Bill, on 23 June 2013 - 07:12 PM, said:

Try playing an Awesome 9M or any other large striker. What used to be brutal flanking maneuvers now end with a Stalker waiting for me to come around the corner. At least lights can run away. Mediums, Dragons, and the like got absolutely ****** by seismic.

Before I knew about seismic I was chasing a Jagerbomb. I snaked around to get behind him by going around a building. Turned the corner and boom goes the ac/40. Thanks seismic.

And as I've said before. Seismic is like having 3rd person view.

[Ralgas]

Hexenhammer, on 23 June 2013 - 07:17 PM, said:

And as I've said before. Seismic is like having 3rd person view.

Which may well be the intended point..........

[dario03]

PEEFsmash, on 23 June 2013 - 07:06 PM, said:

Here's my simple take. If people can negate with a single module the biggest advantage of lights and mediums which is mobility, surprise, and flanking, then I should be able to negate the armor and weaponry of assaults and heavies with a single module.

Until then, seismic should be 100 meters or less.

Yep, but can you imagine the amount of qq that would happen if they added a module like that.

[Levi Porphyrogenitus]

Seismic is great. It fills in a gap that the sensors really ought to fill already (short-range LOS-independent contact notifications), and it does so with an interesting mechanic that is far weaker than proper radar returns (since those can be targeted and used to direct friendly missiles and such, while seismic pings are divorced entirely from the targeting functionality).

If anything it helps brawlers and chasers more than anyone else, as it warns you when you're about to chase somebody around a corner into half his team.

Plus, it can be countered by early positioning and discipline. Enemy relying on seismic? Move fast to get in position and then don't derp around and stop moving, even turning your legs. That last bit is very hard, but if you pull it off their seismic will be blank and they'll come running around corners right into your guns.

[MischiefSC]

Seismic works both ways. You don't have to worry about getting ambushed. If you're in a light your advantage is speed - knowing you're there and being able to shoot you are two different things.

I get the complaints. I agree with the idea of having detection range based on mech size. I dislike the idea of ECM affecting it.

If the introduction of seismic is crippling you in your light though.... well, try some different tactics? Dunno what to tell you. This isn't the first, or biggest, introduction of a game meta changing add-on. At least this one is ubiquitous, unlike ECMs and the ability to boat PPCs and Gauss.

[PEEFsmash]

MischiefSC, on 23 June 2013 - 07:46 PM, said:

If you're in a light your advantage is speed - knowing you're there and being able to shoot you are two different things.

Levi Porphyrogenitus, on 23 June 2013 - 07:42 PM, said:

Seismic is great. It fills in a gap that the sensors really ought to fill already (short-range LOS-independent contact notifications), and it does so with an interesting mechanic that is far weaker than proper radar returns (since those can be targeted and used to direct friendly missiles and such, while seismic pings are divorced entirely from the targeting functionality).

If anything it helps brawlers and chasers more than anyone else, as it warns you when you're about to chase somebody around a corner into half his team.

Plus, it can be countered by early positioning and discipline. Enemy relying on seismic? Move fast to get in position and then don't derp around and stop moving, even turning your legs. That last bit is very hard, but if you pull it off their seismic will be blank and they'll come running around corners right into your guns.

First of all, #MakeEloPublic.

Secondly, seismic does not help flankers know that a team is around the bend because in situations like that, the other team isn't moving. If the team was moving about and a front was established already for the flanker to flank, then the other team would already be targeted by the rest of my team, and seismic wouldn't help me then anyway.

In both cases, seismic helps the slow stationary heavy.

Edited by PEEFsmash, 23 June 2013 - 07:48 PM.

[El Bandito]

Streakcat + Seismic = no more sneaky capping for you lights in the Canyon and Frozen City.

[MischiefSC]

El Bandito, on 23 June 2013 - 08:47 PM, said:

Streakcat + Seismic = no more sneaky capping for you lights in the Canyon and Frozen City.

Absolutely. There are builds that slaughter lights - that's a great example - unless it's got ECM like a 3L, in which case....

Conversely though a good light pilot can do 400 damage and 5 kills - backstab those side torsos. Also they can make a big difference in the battlefield even at higher Elo. You backstab a couple of snipers and run off, no matter who they are they're going to see what happened and make sure you're not standing there still. Gives your team a gap to exploit.

Admittedly speed is a huge factor. I just got the speed tweak on my last Jenner and the performance difference between 130 and 150 is significant. At 150 they just mechanically can't turn fast enough to swing around on you and you can get in and out of just about anywhere in a hurry. At this point though seismic is giving more of an advantage to a brawling light than it's costing them.

Obviously YMWV. Not sure what help it's going to be for spiders and commandos, but they've always been a bit screwed. Ravens and Jenners though? I'm finding it easier, not harder.

[Ralgas]

MischiefSC, on 23 June 2013 - 08:59 PM, said:

Absolutely. There are builds that slaughter lights - that's a great example - unless it's got ECM like a 3L, in which case....

you take bap and murder them too......

the module itself isn't too bad, the range it has isn't. i see why it was added (mainly to grief ac/40's and splat/steakcats) as well as the tinfoil explanation (3pv balance) which is why a tiered range by weight, even if spit into top/bottom half and a range reduction or the above mentioned frontal arc would be the way to go with it as far as preserving light combat.

[DemonRaziel]

MischiefSC, on 23 June 2013 - 08:59 PM, said:

Absolutely. There are builds that slaughter lights - that's a great example - unless it's got ECM like a 3L, in which case....

In which case he has BAP and Advanced Sensor Range and the 3L has a total of 30 m of safety once it closes w/in 270 m (150 - 180 m.

Seismic is broken both ways, as it in theory gives the same advantage to all 'Mechs. But unless you are trying to avoid the fight in the lighter 'Mech, you will eventually have to round a corner towards a heavy hitter that may, or may not know you are coming and may, or may not be waiting for you in ambush to one-shot you.

As it is now, covering areas such as tunnel on Frozen, Cave on River and setting up ambushes from a superior position is damn easy. And if you don't have the seismic while the enemy does, you are screwed big time (newbies in games with veterans, that have enough GXP to get it).

[Nauht]

Use seismic as bait. I usually manage to separate 2-3 from the herd and get them to my team mates.

Some people cant resist following that dot.... probably the same types that always chases the light in a heavy.

[xenoglyph]

I'm not going to cry too hard here, because after all it's just a game. Basically PGI really screwed up on this one, IMO. I think they're blinded by greed. 17.5k GXP + 6 mil each for the best module in the game, that's a lot of incentive to buy premium time and MC(for XP conversion) to reduce the grind.

I think they're focused more on increasing revenue than making a good game...they fail to realize that if they just made a legit, balanced, tactical game that the revenue would flow freely.

They basically doomed themselves from the start. By going to open beta before they were ready and accepting real money for their half baked plans, they locked themselves into a system that they couldn't radically change without alienating many customers. piss poor planning from the start and it's a shame.

Edited by xenoglyph, 23 June 2013 - 11:46 PM.

[Nauht]

xenoglyph, on 23 June 2013 - 11:45 PM, said:

I'm not going to cry too hard here, because after all it's just a game. Basically PGI really screwed up on this one, IMO. I think they're blinded by greed. 17.5k GXP + 6 mil each for the best module in the game, that's a lot of incentive to buy premium time and MC(for XP conversion) to reduce the grind.

I think they're focused more on increasing revenue than making a good game...they fail to realize that if they just made a legit, balanced, tactical game that the revenue would flow freely.

They basically doomed themselves from the start. By going to open beta before they were ready and accepting real money for their half baked plans, they locked themselves into a system that they couldn't radically change without alienating many customers. piss poor planning from the start and it's a shame.

/rollseyes.

Yes, yes MWO is doomed. Dooooomed I tell you. Been hearing that since CB and funny enough its always about a module/weapon/feature that the doomsayer didnt like.

We'll just wait until they release the next module people dont like. MWO will be consigned to deathrow....

.... yet again.

[xenoglyph]

It's not the module, it's their attitude. They knew it would make combat way cheaper, and just affect the game more negatively than positively, but they did it anyways.