12 replies to this topic

[Lightfoot]

MechWarrior Online uses accurate aiming and hitboxes to determine damage done to Mechs. It's one of MechWarrior's greatest strengths. To know your skills will determine the outcome of battles.

Fuzzy Dice:

However, alot of players don't like the pinpoint accuracy of the weapons and point out that in TT all hits were random dice rolls. That would be kind of like how Neverwinter Nights works.

Fuzzy Aim:

The problem with weakening Convergence with Fuzzy Aim mechanics is you will turn all the weapons into LBXs essentially and these will not effect Assaults much, but will shred fast Light mechs. Fuzzy Aim reduces the value of Speed as a damage deflector and it would be hardest on the mechs with the least armor.


Anyway, my idea is to change the way the hitboxes score damage and leave Aiming up to the players.

Instead of having each hitbox be seperate, have the edges overlap so that unless you are reasonably accurate, you would see the damage spread into two adjacent sections. This would see Side Torsos taking more damage than they normally should so you make sure the Arms hitboxes overlap alot. This would make all the mechs alot tougher than they are and allow for fine adjustments so you get all the mechs just right.

Edited by Lightfoot, 25 June 2013 - 11:20 AM.

[Petroshka]

Well, I think that we need to forget the TT rules to some extent. The fact is that the whole aim-hit-damage that works in TT doesn't translate well into a FPS. That being said, I am not against having some cone of fire on multiple weapons fired, increasing due to weapon type and number of weapons. No cone of fire on a single weapon fired. there, you get sniping, and you somewhat alleviate massive alpha coring at 1000 meters.

[Lightfoot]

I don't think you can make fuzzy aim work without making Assaults Invincible=ON and Lights into Skeets. Cone of fire lowers the amount of damage deflection you get from Speed. Assaults on the otherhand would become damage sponges with all that armor to soak-up spread-out shots. Expect the Atlas to get a buff similar to double armor and Jenners to go pffft!

[Ningyo]

interesting idea, but thinking it out more it would fail horribly badly.

All lights and cicada: already tend to spread damage around a lot since they move so fast people hit different sections (except the jenner and its front would still be CT only so no change there)

Zombie Cent and similar zombies: ruined no all that damage to side torsos is being spread to CT anyway so they die 20-50% faster

All assaults now get a free pass to use XL with impunity: might as well since the damage will be spreading so much by the time they kill one segment they will have had to burn off near all your armor anyway.


SO conclusion:
Lights (already near worst) are worse
interesting builds like zombies are worse
bad CT hitboxes that ruin mechs like dragons are worse since now other mechs gain more survivability and they don't
Assaults (already best) are better even yet

[DocBach]

So if I'm understanding correctly it would work something like this:



if I hit the blue hitbox I do all damage to the arm, if I hit the red hitbox I do all damage to the side torso, but if i hit the purple hitbox the damage is halved to both of them?

so to do full damage to the CT it would have to hit the dead center, otherwise the alpha would be spread over a side torso?

[Monky]

Meshing hitboxes could be a workable solution, in all honesty. Particularly for bigger mechs, would have to be applied very intelligently for more compact mechs or they'll just be nigh invincible.

Edited by Monky, 25 June 2013 - 02:26 PM.

[Splitpin]

Yea nerf shooting, that'll make everyone happy. Not.

[DocBach]

Splitpin, on 25 June 2013 - 02:39 PM, said:

Yea nerf shooting, that'll make everyone happy. Not.

comprehension failure? He starts off saying aiming and locational damage makes MWO unique and fuzzy concepts like random hits would not reward aiming, then says he instead would mesh hit boxes to spread damage to near locations unless the single location with hit in its dead center hit box.

[Splitpin]

Oh I read and understood alright. He wants a hitbox within a hitbox. We currently have a system in the game called poor hit detection. To me there's nothing more frustrating than taking time to aim, seeing your shot hit but not being rewarded for it. Now we talk about systems to achieve exactly that. If it were a good thing people would be saying poor hit detection is good for the game. Don't see any of that. Player frustration has to be the biggest cause of 'rage quit' , lets not try and build in frustration of any kind.

[Bunko]

This idea isn't bad, basically you are making smaller hitboxes and some of those hitboxes divide the damage between the two joining sections.

The problem though is why? We already have hitboxes. Using just this method you are adding another 11 hitboxes. How small/many are good? Do we need infinitely small hitboxes? Do we need to pick a center location for each segment, calculate the distance from that point to the hit location, equate that number to a ratio of damage that needs to be applied each joining sections? That might be a little too intensive for the server to calculate, specially on something like a laser that fires multiple damage points over a period of time.

Though I don't see a problem with the idea, I just see this as the same issue that is trying to be fixed.

[Artgathan]

Lightfoot, on 25 June 2013 - 11:19 AM, said:

MechWarrior Online uses accurate aiming and hitboxes to determine damage done to Mechs. It's one of MechWarrior's greatest strengths. To know your skills will determine the outcome of battles.

Fuzzy Dice:

However, alot of players don't like the pinpoint accuracy of the weapons and point out that in TT all hits were random dice rolls. That would be kind of like how Neverwinter Nights works.

Fuzzy Aim:

The problem with weakening Convergence with Fuzzy Aim mechanics is you will turn all the weapons into LBXs essentially and these will not effect Assaults much, but will shred fast Light mechs. Fuzzy Aim reduces the value of Speed as a damage deflector and it would be hardest on the mechs with the least armor.


Anyway, my idea is to change the way the hitboxes score damage and leave Aiming up to the players.

Instead of having each hitbox be seperate, have the edges overlap so that unless you are reasonably accurate, you would see the damage spread into two adjacent sections. This would see Side Torsos taking more damage than they normally should so you make sure the Arms hitboxes overlap alot. This would make all the mechs alot tougher than they are and allow for fine adjustments so you get all the mechs just right.

Fuzzy Aim would not turn all weapons into LBXs; and LBX fires a random scattering of pellets (like a shotgun), a CoF system is just firing a rifle in a random direction. It does not nerf lights; if anything it buffs them because the inherent inaccuracy in the system makes them even harder to hit.

Also, a well designed Cone of Fire system would still allow for pinpoint accuracy. A CoF system makes the game more skillful as it requires pilots to effectively manage their battlemech's systems in order to manage their accuracy. In a CoF system you control the randomness by controlling your mech.

All that aside, I don't think this solution will help. What I foresee happening is that the elite pilots will remain elite, because they will be able to land the shots in the hit-boxes they want (so they can keep running PPC / Gauss Boats), while average players will be punished (since they have a harder time hitting the parts they want).

The other problem with this solution is that it actually makes inaccuracy ok. In the current game, if I miss the CT by a little bit it's a missed shot. I hit the RT/LT, big deal. The damage is meaningless. In the proposed system, some of that damage now transfers to the CT making my "miss" less punishing (since some of the damage transfers it's not a total loss).

[Matthew Ace]

Yeah, this was one of my ideas too. Fully support it.

http://mwomercs.com/...40#entry2357940

[Lightfoot]

DocBach, on 25 June 2013 - 02:13 PM, said:

So if I'm understanding correctly it would work something like this:



if I hit the blue hitbox I do all damage to the arm, if I hit the red hitbox I do all damage to the side torso, but if i hit the purple hitbox the damage is halved to both of them?

so to do full damage to the CT it would have to hit the dead center, otherwise the alpha would be spread over a side torso?

Yes, except the side torso hitbox would overlap into the CT hitbox also and into the arm hitbox. Basically making any single section harder to hit, but the overlap would be less than your diagram I think. You still want the sections to be hit-able, just a little harder to get a clean shot.