100 replies to this topic

[Alex Warden]

i really wonder how many more "comfort features" PGI is gonna implement in the future which will lower the skill level of driving mechs even more... but it´s funny,how a feature that normally gimps users, becomes a powerfull tool for overheat snipers...

wonder if there are other features planned that can be abused somehow...

[Deathlike]

Did you miss ECM and Seismic?

THERE WILL BE MORE!!!

[Tennex]

This solution won't solve anything for mechs with no lower arm actuators. And it won't solve anything for mechs that can boat PPCs on torso/arms only (stalkers, which is the major offender, will not be nerfed)

A good nerf is fixes all issues, not only a few select issues. (honestly OP's idea, would be something i expect PGI to think of, since it doesn't hit the root)

About the snap convergence on arm lock. it is not true. The arms, and torso both travel toward a random midpoint between them (really stupid). and in such a clunky/unpredictable way that it can in no way help snipers.

[Ralgas]

Tennex, on 24 June 2013 - 10:02 PM, said:

This solution won't solve anything for mechs with no lower arm actuators. And it won't solve anything for mechs that can boat PPCs on torso/arms only (stalkers, which is the major offender, will not be nerfed)

A good nerf is fixes all issues, not only a few select issues. (honestly OP's idea, would be something i expect PGI to think of, since it doesn't hit the root)

About the snap convergence on arm lock. it is not true. The arms, and torso both travel toward a random midpoint between them (really stupid). and in such a clunky/unpredictable way that it can in no way help snipers.

except that it guarantees arm/torso pinpoint damage with it on. It is useful, but just holding it up as a sniper boost isn't looking at it correctly

[Razor1611]

HansBlix WMD, on 24 June 2013 - 03:42 PM, said:

Does arm lock really help torso-only weapons, like jager AC40s?

You do know that they are actually both arm-mounted? Any Jagerpilot worth his salt, wouldnt ever lock arms.

[Ralgas]

a good example and argument against atm is the QD-4H. it has a laser mount on each arm as well as 2 in the RT.

flicking on shift at the lower range allows for a pinpoint fix for all 4 weapons, which is very helpful when those pesky lights are trying to disengage and disappear rather than circle you

[Jestun]

I have no problem with the arm lock mechanic, but I do thing weapon convergence speed is something worth looking at (regardless of whether the arm lock is used).

[Skadi]

I use a 4ppc stalker, all of my guns are in my arms.
How the HELL does removing arm lock affect me at all?

[TOGSolid]

Skadi, on 25 June 2013 - 02:03 AM, said:

I use a 4ppc stalker, all of my guns are in my arms.
How the HELL does removing arm lock affect me at all?

Kinda like how AC40 Jagers don't give a **** about arm lock either way as well.

[Skadi]

TOGSolid, on 25 June 2013 - 02:07 AM, said:

Kinda like how AC40 Jagers don't give a **** about arm lock either way as well.

Indeed, armlock realy didn't change anything other than add a aiming convience and make it easier to aim for the less skilled players... if they removed it I realy wouldn't notice, besides from the fact I primaly use the 4ppc stalker as my main assault (blame meta) I can still AIM arm and torso separately just fine.

(although this would prolly loldevestate people who have become dependant on armlock)

[Victor Morson]

Skadi, on 25 June 2013 - 02:03 AM, said:

I use a 4ppc stalker, all of my guns are in my arms.
How the HELL does removing arm lock affect me at all?

I like the idea of arm mounted guns having an aiming advantage, as they are in a more fragile location. That's how it used to work, and I don't see a downside to going back to that.

Also for those of you using torso only weapons, the torso does "trail" behind the arm reticule which does in fact make aiming your torso much harder than if you're just using shift, where it's perfect 1:1 movement.

For everyone saying "This would just encourage more arm mounted builds!" I am just sitting here scratching my head going "And why is that a bad thing?"

[Zylo]

As a joystick user I've never cared much about arm lock. I usually don't even bother using it but I also don't have my view moving all over when I move my JS (my view stays centered on the torso crosshairs unless I hold ctrl while moving the JS). The only sort of sniper builds I ever really used were either a cataphract 3D or the gauss K2.

Removing the arm lock doesn't make any difference for good players, those with good aim will still hit their targets. Those with poor aim will probably lose more often and if they are on the enemy team I have no problems with that.

I think this would be worth testing to see if the number of sniper mechs ends up being reduced but I suspect the numbers will remain the same and mechs with either all torso or all arm mounted sniper weapons will become more popular.

[Victor Morson]

Zylo, on 25 June 2013 - 03:03 AM, said:

Removing the arm lock doesn't make any difference for good players, those with good aim will still hit their targets. Those with poor aim will probably lose more often and if they are on the enemy team I have no problems with that.

First off.. you use a joystick, with the current UI?? Oh man.

Second, I'm not sure how it works with joystick, but yes it does make a difference for good players. Unless you have the time to lead your target by enough of a margin to converge your torso and arms, you simply cannot score snap shots with 100% accuracy. The torso will always be behind the arms. The only way to maximize snapshots would be to fire arm first, torso second.

Which adds more skill. Hell, since I've brought this up I've started realizing how little I care about arm mounted guns now. They used to be a big deal. Even if arm lock brought them back to the foreground, I don't get why people act like that's a bad thing?

[Mudhutwarrior]

Victor Morson, on 24 June 2013 - 04:28 PM, said:

ED: is me.

Again, this is not a magic bullet cure all. Quick deaths will happen until weight limits are added. PPCs will remain popular until short range weapons are buffed, etc, etc. I am not saying this fixes everything.

I am saying this VASTLY reduces the #1 complaint around here about every gun hitting the same spot every time, and being easy to aim. I think most of the people fighting to keep arm lock simply want to keep what is effectively an easy mode button. (Except the near blind poster. But he really needs a custom reticule, not arm lock.)

Thank you, I tried again to unlock but I cant see the circle and have to bassically stop and find it again. Tried messing with mouse speed and still no go. I lose the yellow rectical a lot too but at least I can guess where it is. Not trying to ruin the game for you crack players but I would like the option of arm lock or be able to enlarge the recticule or change its color.. If I hade the same recticule rather than a line and a dot maybe it would be better. I have the same issue with chat font size and most often I cant read it. Just hoping they give a size option there or go to intergrated comms.
And yeah, I suck but I like the game so the jerk who told me to quit playing today can kiss my,..........

[Roland]

I believe that instead of simply locking the arms, the arm lock button should actually raise the arms of lower arm actuated mechs, locking them in place and extending them in front of the mech.

[MustrumRidcully]

Shalune, on 24 June 2013 - 03:27 PM, said:

I voted other because I'd be all for this idea, but I don't see it solving the problem. Mechs could still fit 4 PPCs on only torso or arms.

I agree with this. It will help against some builds, but not all of them. I am not sure my AC/40 Jagermech would perform any better or worse with arm lock, since the guns are already in the arms.

Unless, of course, t here are other hidden benefits to arm lock. If this is true:

Quote

It is also important to note that hitting the arm lock key moves your torso as speeds it could not otherwise achieve.

Then we would have a problem.

[Chrithu]

I agree to the OP. But I doubt anything will happen. The problem with such training crooks is that they are also available to people that know what they are doing already and "misuse" them to do things such a feature never was meant for.

That's also a problem in balancing. One important rule is to ignore less skilled players when making balancing decisions because any boost you do in order to help them will boost the skilled players by a multidute of it and ultimately hurt the less skilled player more than it helps him.

[Mentalcowman]

I dont fancy being limited to only arm mounted mechs so i voted no, i never use the bad aiming system anyway at medium range doesnt make much difference, only in assaults and long range your moving your mouse so slowly the weapons stay convergered or sometimes if you get only a short window to fire as an enemy just pops thier head/arm whatever then you might only have enough time to use your arm weapons anyway so as far as im concered let it be, there are much bigger issues, lets face it, hitting assaults at 1000km range is not challengeing compared to other fps's such as counter strike.

Edited by Mentalcowman, 25 June 2013 - 05:07 AM.

[xDeityx]

Roland, on 25 June 2013 - 04:24 AM, said:

I believe that instead of simply locking the arms, the arm lock button should actually raise the arms of lower arm actuated mechs, locking them in place and extending them in front of the mech.

I've been waiting for something like this in a MW game for a long time. There's no reason a 'mech shouldn't be able to do it and it is so frustrating shooting hilltops in an Atlas unless I poke my entire 'mech above the skyline.

[Mr 144]

I have arm lock set to the thumb slider on my x52 throttle. In this way it acts like a true toggle. A couple things...

I'm not convinced the 'snap' speeds up torso twist time at all.
When locked (not snapping), on most mechs, torso twist speed is noticeably reduced...aka slower, not faster.

I think it marginalized hardpoint locations to a large extent. Previously, there were definitive advantages to prime locations..now, not so much.

PGI has gone to great lengths to take the 'mech' out of mechwarrior. Consider the release of mechs since the intitial four. 90 degrees torso and 40 degree arm was the base mech movement. Since then, arm lock has been introduced, along with severely gimped range of motion on new releases. Pitiful 15-20 degrees at times...or mechs without lower actuators. Couple this with less than ideal hardpoints on arms...such as split torso/arm missiles...only 1 energy each arm...dead shield arms...etc...and you have a purposeful design to discourage arm use.

They know darn-tooting well what they've done with arm-lock...and it's 100% intentional justified by the 'newbie experience' and trying everything possible to dumb down the one unique thing about the franschise.