100 replies to this topic

[I3lackI2ogue]

They know darn-tooting well what they've done with arm-lock...and it's 100% intentional justified by the 'newbie experience' and trying everything possible to dumb down the one unique thing about the franchise.

this. mechwarrior used to be a stompy robot sim for men. now its watered down for casuals, ugh.

[RG Notch]

I3lackI2ogue, on 25 June 2013 - 06:25 AM, said:

They know darn-tooting well what they've done with arm-lock...and it's 100% intentional justified by the 'newbie experience' and trying everything possible to dumb down the one unique thing about the franchise.

this. mechwarrior used to be a stompy robot sim for men. now its watered down for casuals, ugh.

What did you people expect when you saw the game was F2P? F2Ps survive on casuals. Do you think the hard core folks need premium time? Or buy all the Heroes?
I'm not saying it's a good thing, just that it's an F2P thing. Even PGI has said it's main aim is to get causals in.

[Shae Starfyre]

This is why I see lights and mediums and fast heavies who move to higher or lower ground, or use JJ dust arm-lockers in canyon (it is on by default) and they don't use it (me).

[Coolant]

MW4:Mercs had it, it was always locked...so therefore I want the option.

[stjobe]

As for the "snaps to torso/snaps to arms" and "speeds up/doesn't speed up" question, I have a further question (I'd try it myself but my boss frowns upon me playing MWO at work...):

Is it possible arm lock has different behaviour whether it's enabled or disabled?

AFAIK, if arm lock is enabled you hold the "toggle" (which is a push button, not a toggle) to disable it, and if it's disabled you hold the toggle to enable it. Could the "snap to" behaviour be different in these two modes?

Anyone care to go on the Training Grounds and give it a go?

[Yarvoo]

I wouldn't mind arm lock being removed, as long as they smoothed out torso twisting in fast mechs.

In my Flame, I always have arm lock off and use shift to get pinpoint fine aiming with less twitchyness when needed.

However, in my Jenner or Cicada, I keep it on, and in the Jenner, use shift to aim high or low if needed.

Having arm lock enabled on a light fast mech means you have much smoother aim while twisting, even if arms cannot move side to side, or even if there are no arm weapons, like on a Cicada 3M.

Lower mouse sensitivity does not compare to the mysterious smoothness that arm lock gives to those kind of mechs.

[Soy]

There is a serious ******* risk involved with arm lock.

If you can't get that in your skull, I dunno what else to ******* say.

Jesus you people literally find one page of a good book to read and study the same word over and over sometimes

[ExtremeA79]

Victor Morson, on 24 June 2013 - 03:15 PM, said:

So, how many of you pinpoint PPC Snipers out there don't use the Arm Lock toggle switch when you're ready to fire all of your weapons - in particular those of you using split arm configs like the Highlander and Cataphract?

I know I do. All the time. I always pop the key before I line up a shot to absolutely maximize convergence. That's when it hit me: I think I've found the biggest problem with snipers. This stupid "training wheels" feature that hurts newbies skill anyway by defaulting to locked has effectively allowed 'mechs that are almost impossible to sync long range shots with to get pin point shots.

Yes, I say almost impossible. Why? Because the torso trails behind the arms, meaning you have to hold still for a bit of time before you can line up a perfect shot - compared to arm lock where I can simply press SHIFT and immediately snap all my guns to that one location.

I had a post up before thinking it was a problem but it has really just hit me that's when almost all of the "pinpoint" trouble talk started ; it came in around the same time as the PPC, and I think as a result has been overlooked.

It is also important to note that hitting the arm lock key moves your torso as speeds it could not otherwise achieve. That alone is helping quick snap shots. In addition to the fact it allows you to accurately move your torso guns - even Torso-only 'mechs are impacted by arm lock, because otherwise the torso guns "float" behind the targeting cursor, making shots require much more skill.

Thus my recommendation: Remove Arm Lock immediately. For at least one patch. Let's see how it impacts higher level play - this feature was meant literally as new player training wheels and has turned into the equivalent of the "Press a button to breathe" sniper game element.

Having played several test matches purposely avoiding arm lock - something I haven't done in months - I can honestly say I now believe it hugely responsible for some of the larger aiming problems. Without it, simply put, sniper fire is unavoidably scattered and far, far more difficult to aim.

EDIT: I'd ask if you are considering replying that you do a few drops in a current meta sniper build - Like a 3 PPC/1 Gauss Highlander or the like - and try them without ever using your arm lock toggle and watch the results. I had a theory it could be making the problems worse, but after doing this, I'm now convinced it's actually at least 50% responsible for them. Landing both arm & torso weapons on a single location at extreme range is nearly impossible against a moving target without arm lock.. it's arrival with the PPC Speed buff and it's "Not talked about noob training thing" status has made it go off the radar, but I know for a fact ALL the good snipers use it on toggle to line up shots. That wasn't the intended purpose, not that the intended purpose was very good!

When I snipe I sometimes disable arm lock for enemies on my sides, high and low. Removing arm lock won't do anything except **** a few people off. Most of the people using high alpha builds are not newbies.

[Steel Will]

[Hellcat420]

i dont use scrub builds and only use alphastrikes as a last resort so i have never really used armlock other than to screw around.

Edited by Hellcat420, 25 June 2013 - 09:50 AM.

[Victor Morson]

Coolant, on 25 June 2013 - 08:35 AM, said:

MW4:Mercs had it, it was always locked...so therefore I want the option.

MW4 treated it entirely differently though. You could only swing your arms in raw 90 degree angles. It was really clunky comparatively and not many people used it.

ED: It was awesome for the couple of us that did, either as a Novacat "SURPRISE!" to someone chasing you, or to line up the Black Knight shield to soak up the first hits. But still, it was very clunky and I don't think we should be looking to MW4 for UI things.

Edited by Victor Morson, 25 June 2013 - 12:00 PM.

[I3lackI2ogue]

Darren Tyler, on 25 June 2013 - 09:21 AM, said:

When I snipe I sometimes disable arm lock for enemies on my sides, high and low. Removing arm lock won't do anything except **** a few people off. Most of the people using high alpha builds are not newbies.

[Victor Morson]

Darren Tyler, on 25 June 2013 - 09:21 AM, said:

When I snipe I sometimes disable arm lock for enemies on my sides, high and low. Removing arm lock won't do anything except **** a few people off. Most of the people using high alpha builds are not newbies.

If all arm lock did was limit your arm movement to, say, around an "inch" encircling your torso crosshair, then it'd be entirely fine because it would still be playing by the same rules as not using it. However it shouldn't be giving you precise 1:1 control.

[Ningyo]

Personally I think having an Arm Lock feature makes tons of sense, why shouldn't you be able to tell your arms to stay in there present position.

However why not make it so arm lock locks arms in there present position instead of snapping them to center torso. This would possibly prevent some of you problems with it, would make it more realistic, and would might even add some tactical functionality to it (like locking arms with no weapons in relatively shielding positions)

[Angel of Annihilation]

Armlock is a very good way to REDUCE the effectiveness of your mech. You lose so many firing angles it isn't even funny and losing the angles WILL get you killed...often.

Also armlock really does nothing to effect something like a Stalker because I can mount all my Energy weapons in the arms.

[Victor Morson]

Viktor Drake, on 25 June 2013 - 05:44 PM, said:

Armlock is a very good way to REDUCE the effectiveness of your mech. You lose so many firing angles it isn't even funny and losing the angles WILL get you killed...often.

If you leave it on all the time yeah, that's stupid. But when all you have to do is press shift anytime you want instant 100% convergence, that's a different story.

The amount of people who think I'm talking just about leaving it enabled is crazy.

[Mr 144]

Viktor Drake, on 25 June 2013 - 05:44 PM, said:

Armlock is a very good way to REDUCE the effectiveness of your mech. You lose so many firing angles it isn't even funny and losing the angles WILL get you killed...often.

Also armlock really does nothing to effect something like a Stalker because I can mount all my Energy weapons in the arms.

Yep, on all the time it reduces torso twist speed...which alone is a reason not to leave it on, but when used as a toggle by either 'shift' or programmed macro/JS toggle switch it has very good uses.

Take the 2xGauss + 4xML Build for example. Even on a build that has no 'need' for arm lock it's a huge boon when properly used. being able to lock on-the-fly the MLs to the Gauss gives a pretty reliable 50 pinpoint alpha...whereas without, you are likely to at least spread some of the ML's 20 points to multiple locations. On slightly hilly terrain that does not exeed the vertical pitch range of the torso, it definately increases pin-point damage by reducing 'laser bounce' while keeping the gauss perpetually aimed at the exact same location.

This is of course, and extreme example, but the point is....ANY mech can make use of arm-lock. Convergance and pin-point damage is simply more accurate with mixed hardpoint location and/or type. This is a simple fact. The only downside, is you have to work a button...which some of the 2-button people just can't except. Other than that...it's a superb tool when used properly.

Edited by Mr 144, 25 June 2013 - 06:47 PM.

[Gamgee]

This is part of the problem. Holy ****, how did we miss this?

[A banana in the tailpipe]

Unless your mech can go over 120kph, arm-lock is just as good as if you didn't have it. This game isn't about tactics or manuverability after all.... it's just a death match.

Victor Morson, on 25 June 2013 - 05:49 PM, said:

If you leave it on all the time yeah, that's stupid. But when all you have to do is press shift anytime you want instant 100% convergence, that's a different story.

The amount of people who think I'm talking just about leaving it enabled is crazy.

They don't understand what you're saying because they don't experience the game with a low ping and decent rig.

[Victor Morson]

Gamgee, on 25 June 2013 - 07:12 PM, said:

This is part of the problem. Holy ****, how did we miss this?

I'm really hoping this isuses get revisted. I plan to make it an Ask the Dev question at the next opportunity and hope that it gets voted in.

Arm lock either needs to go, or merely act as a restriction with how far you can move your arms from the torso; it needs to stop the 1:1 control.

I miss the days when it really mattered if your guns were arm or torso mounted and it added more - very understandable even to new players - complexity to the game. Now, it really doesn't matter at all.