162 replies to this topic

[CCC Dober]

Frost pretty much makes my case. Granted there were lots of NHUA players in MW4. But there was also the FFP, HOLA crowd (forced first person, heat on, limited ammo) and not just a few IIRC. Coming from the latter I did appreciate the options you had in NHUA, but it felt like legit cheating than anything else. As I said, it's not as clear cut as it seems on first glance. Cheers =)

[Striker1980]

yngvef, on 09 June 2012 - 04:22 AM, said:

I am a random poster, mostly lurker, on this forum. I am no expert on Battletech. I have played Mechwarrior 4 Mercenaries when it was rereleased for free by Mektek, and I've read a bit on sarna.net, but when people are discussing the finer points of the "Jihad" or something, I don't know what they're talking about.

This i obviously quite ok. I like learning new stuff and reading up on the canon of the "universe", even though I don't have the time to read thick books on the subject.

I do however worry that some players and forum members have a "fear" of the experts that make them scared of saying "the wrong thing". There are many established "truths" about BT that most of us "novices" don't know much about.

I for one, like mechs like the Argus and the Hauptmann, mostly for their looks. If they were included in MWO, I would probably choose them because of this. I have no idea if this opinion is "wrong" in some way.

Another example: I thought MW4:Mercs with mekpak was a pretty good game. I actually liked the single-player campaign, and I'm not ashamed to say so. I've read many places on this forum that "MW4 has ruined a generation of mech-players" or something like that. The only reason I was attracted to MWO was because I learned about mechs and battletech through MW4, so it can't be that bad.

My point is: I hope we casual Battletech-fans, or even just "big-robot"-fans are welcome, despite not being able to recite the entire line of succesion in House Steiner.

First up welcome to the forums!

Second up don't worry about posting something you are genuinely curious about.

I posted some, in retrospect, quite naive posts when I first started here, but by talking to those around and reading Sarna I feel I'm pretty comfortable with the Lore of the game, so feel free and ask away, generally anyone answering your questions is just trying to set you straight, though there's nothing to say they have to be nice about it, sadly.

My background was Mechwarrior 3/4, Mechcommander 1/2 and Mechassault, (Even though I knew that it was bad at the time) and a little bit of Darkages minis, Some would disparage how I got into the game, but the simple fact is I did get into the game.

I'm very much looking forward to this game too, BECAUSE it'll be following the original lore and the original tabletop rules.

I always wanted to play the table top game but discounted it as it looked too complex to be quick/ fun a little like Dungeons and dragons is too complex to be a quick game (I'm not someone who has entire weekends to burn with 5 mates).

Now were in the position where the computer can do the hard work for you and noones watering down the rules, I know this should be a great game, and I really don't care what anyone says about where my interest in it came from, nore should you.

Edited by Striker1980, 09 June 2012 - 06:05 AM.

[Aeropunk]

I'm a competitive gamer, the major reason I play games is because of the competition and the desire to be the best at whatever it is I'm doing. A lot of the people here seem to be here primarily for the lore of the BattleTech universe though, so it can be a bit daunting when people say they wouldn't choose a certain mech because the house they play for wouldn't have. To me, that just seems odd, because I want to have the gear that will help me to be the most combat effective. At the same time, what I do know of the lore is that it's pretty cool, and I can see why people want to preserve it. I just know that there's nothing I could do to stop me just picking whatever would work best in the fight. Hopefully the devs can work out ways to strike a balance between competition and lore.

Starting out in a social game like this is a new thing for me to, I have no idea what house to pick!

Edited by Aeropunk, 09 June 2012 - 06:11 AM.

[MogCarns]

People do not get flamed on this forum without having done or said something that REALLY deserves it. By that, I mean, they clearly know enough to know better, and just chose to be wrong.

If you post something wrong, nearly everyone here will correct you. Tone does not convey well in text, but you may safely assume the tone to be friendly and warm.

However, if you are concerned, some simple guildlines are...

A: Don't claim to be someone important until you have earned the right, preferably in MWO. The last Battletech based game was about ten years ago. A very few people have names that can survive that long, and were important when the game was relevant. If you claim to be the Khan of the Wolf Clan just because you happened to have that position in a minor league years afterward, playing against seven other people, this is the kind of thing that can cause flaming.

B: Direct kinship with major characters is also a problem. You cannot be Hanse Davion's long lost brother. His brother, Ian Davion, died on Mallory's World in like 3013. His body was recovered. They do not tend to "lose" people. However, much like pre-war Europe, nearly everyone is related in some fashion. Distant cousins are common among several families. Minor research will reveal that some families, like Steiners, breed like rabbits. Liao, however, does not have many relations that could become rivals for the throne. Like Lestrades, they tend to kill off each other.

C: Avoid trying to fill in lost plot points. Members of Clan Wolverine and the detailed history of the Minnesota Tribe are problematic at best. "Lost Star League Cache", or LSLC, is something of the worst kind of cliche.

Still, an above infraction would still be met with minor flaming, if at all. Think of it as teasing in the the "you know better than that" category. True flaming is reserved for true heresy. Such as Nikkolas Amaris-Kerensky, direct descendant of Aleksandr and Stefan's gay love child, Khan of Clan Ghost Frog.

[Stonewall]

"Expert" is such a loose term when you are talking about something that doesn't actually exist, but I digress.

I've been playing BT/MW since the old cartoon show introduced me to this wonderful universe, and I still learn something new everytime I open one of my TROs or browse the forums. Don't let the loud obnoxious minority define your experience. Ask away and ignore the haters/flamers/griefers(they have issues they most of us aren't qualified to help them with)

[Striker1980]

Aeropunk, on 09 June 2012 - 06:09 AM, said:

I'm a competitive gamer, the major reason I play games is because of the competition and the desire to be the best at whatever it is I'm doing. A lot of the people here seem to be here primarily for the lore of the BattleTech universe though, so it can be a bit daunting when people say they wouldn't choose a certain mech because the house they play for wouldn't have. To me, that just seems odd, because I want to have the gear that will help me to be the most combat effective. At the same time, what I do know of the lore is that it's pretty cool, and I can see why people want to preserve it. I just know that there's nothing I could do to stop me just picking whatever would work best in the fight. Hopefully the devs can work out ways to strike a balance between competition and lore.

Starting out in a social game like this is a new thing for me to, I have no idea what house to pick!

Why not be a 'merc you can use any Mech you want and you can kill people simply because someone else paid you to do it, it suits my Sociopathic nature down to the ground. You should try it.

And remember kids there is never any good reason to kill anyone unless someone throws huge chunks of cash your way to to it! (In game naturally <SARCASM DISCLAIMER!>

[Badfinger]

yngvef, on 09 June 2012 - 04:22 AM, said:

I am a random poster, mostly lurker, on this forum. I am no expert on Battletech. I have played Mechwarrior 4 Mercenaries when it was rereleased for free by Mektek, and I've read a bit on sarna.net, but when people are discussing the finer points of the "Jihad" or something, I don't know what they're talking about.

This i obviously quite ok. I like learning new stuff and reading up on the canon of the "universe", even though I don't have the time to read thick books on the subject.

I do however worry that some players and forum members have a "fear" of the experts that make them scared of saying "the wrong thing". There are many established "truths" about BT that most of us "novices" don't know much about.

I for one, like mechs like the Argus and the Hauptmann, mostly for their looks. If they were included in MWO, I would probably choose them because of this. I have no idea if this opinion is "wrong" in some way.

Another example: I thought MW4:Mercs with mekpak was a pretty good game. I actually liked the single-player campaign, and I'm not ashamed to say so. I've read many places on this forum that "MW4 has ruined a generation of mech-players" or something like that. The only reason I was attracted to MWO was because I learned about mechs and battletech through MW4, so it can't be that bad.

My point is: I hope we casual Battletech-fans, or even just "big-robot"-fans are welcome, despite not being able to recite the entire line of succesion in House Steiner.

No worries kid! Believe it or Not, There are some of us that are the same age and have been around from the time Jordan Weisman started the FASA Corporation (short for the Freedonia Aeronautics & Space Administration, named after the fictional country in the Marx Brothers film Duck Soup) that set off the MECH mania we know and love today! And guess what? We could give a **** less about Lore or Canon ( Ya, that's right, I said it! ). '"Crush! Kill! Destroy!"'' (Taken from "Lost in Space": Season 2, Episode 24. Revolt of the Androids (8 Mar. 1967). TV Episode) is why we play! It's that simple. Yes, I know! "I'm so old I Fart Dust".

[RainbowToh]

stonewall, on 09 June 2012 - 06:22 AM, said:

"Expert" is such a loose term when you are talking about something that doesn't actually exist, but I digress.

I've been playing BT/MW since the old cartoon show introduced me to this wonderful universe, and I still learn something new everytime I open one of my TROs or browse the forums. Don't let the loud obnoxious minority define your experience. Ask away and ignore the haters/flamers/griefers(they have issues they most of us aren't qualified to help them with)

Are you from the planet of Somerset?

[Madrix]

I don't think the "expert" moniker really applies to anyone during a time when we're waiting for a new adaptation of the core game that many of us fell in love with. For me, that was 20 years ago, and all electronic titles released subsequently have been judged against those early experiences. While most of them have been found lacking on several fronts, that criticism has always been tempered by the knowledge that you'd probably not enjoy a complete implementation of table top rules in a first person simulation as much as an arcade shoot-em-up.

The closest thusfar was EA's MPBT3025. MW:O looks promising. I haven't wanted a beta key this badly in a long, long time.

[Alex Reed]

yngvef,

When people buy a new car, is it for looks or performance? Whenever I purchase something, it is always with the idea that I will be looking at this for a long time so it must appeal to me.

When I first started playing BattleTech Tabletop (pen and paper), I bought the Archer, and then another, and then another. Not because of its awesome stats or abilities ... it was because I liked the way that it looked. As it was not one of the more powerful heavy mechs, I had to find ways to adjust my strategy to use them to their full potential. I did not win every battle but I did have a good time in every match I was in!

I guess what I am saying is this ... pick the mechs you have fallen in love with and make them work. I hope this is what the game becomes (I could care less about people creating ginormous clans to take over the whole Inner Sphere ... I am here to pilot my mechs, do the best I can for my team ... but this is not my life ... I am here to have fun and blow stuff up.)

[Major Bill Curtis]

As someone who often posts things like, "that technology/'mech is not available in 3049" let me say that it's always done in the spirit of helpfulness, even if it sometimes may not seem like it.

I have a lot of the books; I run a tabletop game. Since I have access to the information that things like Sarna are based on, I feel a responsibility to be helpful in engaging those with less information with what to expect from a Battletech-based game set in the Inner Sphere in 3049 (e.g. answering "Where's my Madcat?").

From what I've seen, 80-90% of other posters in a position similar to mine are also just trying to be helpful with the lore and with players' expectations. Internet forums being what they are, it doesn't always come off as being as helpful as intended . . .

Never let that bum you out or be afraid to ask a question. People get weird on internet forums; I get weird on internet forums; we all sometimes get weird on internet forums. Ask away; ignore the trollz; brush off the sometimes-cranky, and take the good.

Above all, have fun.

Cheers

As a postscript, let me also mention how much I learn from others here: someone always seems to have more knowledge about a specific topic than you do, and often this can lead to good conversation. I learn about things I thought I knew all the time.

At the risk of plugging a thread I started, check this one out. Read that first post, then have a look at some of the more thoughtful responses: to me it is clear that the big picture I put forth can stand plenty of subtle adjustments. Several "experts" came together and made lots of conflicting/complementary suggestions. I learned from this, and that's a good thing: it doesn't matter if my initial post is perfect: in fact, that's one of the reasons for making the post on a public forum---to hear from others who might have different opinions.

We all know that it doesn't always go as well as this, but we learn by taking risks.

Edited by Major Bill Curtis, 09 June 2012 - 07:37 AM.

[Slim Grady]

Yeah I share the same feelings as far as playing/posting with veteran players.This was my father's game and this is something that I am inheriting in a sense. So treat it with respect! I played MW4 and yes I played mechassault just because I hoped it would like the mechwarrior series (to my chagrin). People might look at me like a red-headed stepchild, but I share a passion for this universe too. I also feel that the fanbase here is more mature. I just turned 20 and I look forward to an experience full of players who enjoy the universe. Not flaming and hateful comments of self-entitlement. So yeah! This game is the ultimate reward for about a decade of patience!

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

Id also not like it to swing the other way either. Encourage people TO find out info on the basis of the game.

[Ratzap]

MogCarns, on 09 June 2012 - 06:18 AM, said:

A: Don't claim to be someone important until you have earned the right, preferably in MWO. The last Battletech based game was about ten years ago. A very few people have names that can survive that long, and were important when the game was relevant. If you claim to be the Khan of the Wolf Clan just because you happened to have that position in a minor league years afterward, playing against seven other people, this is the kind of thing that can cause flaming.

B: Direct kinship with major characters is also a problem. You cannot be Hanse Davion's long lost brother. His brother, Ian Davion, died on Mallory's World in like 3013. His body was recovered. They do not tend to "lose" people. However, much like pre-war Europe, nearly everyone is related in some fashion. Distant cousins are common among several families. Minor research will reveal that some families, like Steiners, breed like rabbits. Liao, however, does not have many relations that could become rivals for the throne. Like Lestrades, they tend to kill off each other.

C: Avoid trying to fill in lost plot points. Members of Clan Wolverine and the detailed history of the Minnesota Tribe are problematic at best. "Lost Star League Cache", or LSLC, is something of the worst kind of cliche.

This ^^^

Like when everquest 1 opened and almost every dark elf you saw was a variation of Drrizzzt, Drozzzit etc etc. Do not *ever* try to take the name or affiliation of a strand from lore. There is no better way to guarentee a negative reaction to anything you post

Edited by Ratzap, 09 June 2012 - 07:46 AM.

[Lightfoot]

I know alot about Battletech, but I am not what you would call a purist. My main wish for MWO is that it be the best MechWarrior Giant Robot piloting game ever. I am good with however that gets done the best. If it's canon, all the better. That's what the Dev's are trying to do.

When I started out in online MechWarrior in MW2 I didn't know alot about how the roleplay worked, but I found you don't need to know, you just become part of it whether you intended to or not. So really there is nothing to fear although some players will be quoting from canon TT references.

I like MW4 and MW2-MW3 for that matter, and I still play them. MWO looks easier actually, but then of course it's easier for everyone so I expect new players to pick up MWO skills quickly.

See you all planetside!

Edited by Lightfoot, 09 June 2012 - 08:19 AM.

[yngvef]

CCC Dober, on 09 June 2012 - 05:38 AM, said:

OP: Have you had a chance to visit forums of other similarly big universes/games?
The underlying pattern is that nobody knows everything about them, just a couple of facts in an endless sea of information. Some know more, some less. Filling the gaps either through reading, logic, educated guesses or experience is what makes everybody equal in that sense.
The actual interpretation or meaning differs and this is where a lot of conflicts may arise. Some things can be interpreted correctly, other things remain unclear, where information/sources contradict each other. Many things aren't cut as clear as they appear on first glance, least of all in BT. Welcome aboard =)

Yes, I've "dabbled" a bit in Warhammer 40k, and I feel the same way about that. I was introduced to that particular universe by accident actually. I bought Company of Heroes and it was bundled with Dawn of War and really wanted to find out WHY librarians wear power armor in the 41st milennium.

I guess you're right about people not knowing everything. It just seems like it sometimes, and that can be a bit scary. It's sometimes feel like I'm posting in a physics forum after reading a few wikipedia-pages about string theory...

Anyhow, thanks for the welcome. I haven't had any bad experiences on this forum yet.

[Orzorn]

The awesome part of Battletech is that the insane size of the universe means there's always questions to be asked.

[yngvef]

Aegis Kleais, on 09 June 2012 - 05:34 AM, said:

So in other words, you're aware of the truth in the statement, you just choose not to partake of its wisdom.

That's how i roll

In MWO, I believe I will prefer a medium or heavy mech, because being a lumbering beast doesn't suit my playstyle and I'm too agressive to be a scout in a light mech, even though it might turn out to be quite fun.

I'm definitely going to try to master all weight-classes eventually, but I have to see how the other players play first

[abetterpilot]

I played tabletop and resisted all efforts, mainly because of the learning curve, to get me on a PC with my friends until late Ven, mechcomander.
I play Mercs4 daily again, after a pause from 07 until the free download, and my only real big beef with it has always been how easy and risk free it is to use jump jets.
It always felt to me like most of the Battletech "pureists" were poo pooing the game because of skill level. All the cannon in China wont help you play better PC games that reward hand eye skills.
I think that, plus a general unsportsmanlike attitude by alot of the remaining players in Mercs have turned people off.
It feels almost like wanering into a game of Counrtstrike at the same age in the game as a noob. All you get are idiots telling you you suk for being a noob, get better or dont play, etc. etc. they are happy to show you every little thing they know that they themselves are not good enough to show the folks they play with.
I do have high hopes for MWO.

[Alizabeth Aijou]

Quote

B: Direct kinship with major characters is also a problem. You cannot be Hanse Davion's long lost brother. His brother, Ian Davion, died on Mallory's World in like 3013. His body was recovered. They do not tend to "lose" people. However, much like pre-war Europe, nearly everyone is related in some fashion. Distant cousins are common among several families. Minor research will reveal that some families, like Steiners, breed like rabbits. Liao, however, does not have many relations that could become rivals for the throne. Like Lestrades, they tend to kill off each other.

Or at least, you'd have to be very careful about how you exactly explain it.
My fanon faction's ruling dynasty, for example, happens to be descendant from an all-women regiment created at the direct order of Jinjiro Kurita (yeah, after he got crazy). Regiment's leader left the IS with an infant, father unknown. So they could be descendant from Jinjiro, or it might just be some random guy from a backwater planet. Personally, I prefer to keep it unknown, but the possibility is there.
Kuritans are also rather strict about who they can have relationships with. (Omiko Kurita's being a notable exeption to the rule.)

Quote

Why not be a 'merc you can use any Mech you want

Same goes for Ghost Regiments.

Quote

really wanted to find out WHY librarians wear power armor in the 41st milennium.

Or why it's always blue, or accented with blue fields.