1715 replies to this topic

[Nauht]

Shumabot, on 26 June 2013 - 05:19 PM, said:

Your hobby involves spending 1.5 times as much money as a finished AAA title by a well known developers. I don't care if you saved your little pennies, you're bad with money. Having a lot of money doesn't make it ok that you're letting yourself get fleeced.

It speaks volumes that you can't do simple comparative math and come up with the conclusion "this costs way too much".

Comparative maths to what? It's disposable income to spend on whatever the **** I like. Be that an $800 golf club, $120 burger, or $2 piece of gum.

It's not an essential item, which I've already accounted for in my daily life.

Sorry that you can't afford that, what can I say - sucks to be you I guess.

Besides use that crystal ball and predict you own lotto numbers so that you can enjoy spending a little. Sounds like you need it more tha. Me.

[almightyfargoth]

Shumabot, on 26 June 2013 - 05:29 PM, said:

They would, they would just have the capacity to live with that issue. Having significant disposable income comes with the privilege of making luxury purchases. Those are usually price inflated as it the wont of luxury brands, it's part of their allure. I really don't think grabbing an exceptionally expensive freemium on a badly bugged beta game qualifies as a luxury purchase. Even if he believes it is one, this sort of thing is bad for the game, these prices do not need to be this high. There is a bell curve of price to profit, the more expensive something is the fewer people buy it and the less PGI makes. I seriously doubt 80 dollars is the top of that curve. Having it at 80 dollars creates exactly what half this thread is showing (and this forum is way more PGI friendly than the general public), that being a sense that the developers are more interested in creating profits than they are in creating a game that can be enjoyably played by everyone. Those people will take their time and invest it in this games endless competition, and their numerous small purchases (which generally amount to much more than single large purchases by fewer people) vanish. PGI will survive this individual sale, but if this represents a pattern of behavior this game will never grow to a size where it can be good to its entire audience (rather than its cash free or obsessive minority of fans).

Well yeah, but wouldn't that make you more pissed about the price of like...the Misery? than these Phoenix deals?

Because evened out, it's a pretty decent bargain for anyone out there with the money.

[Shumabot]

almightyfargoth, on 26 June 2013 - 05:24 PM, said:

If you have a PS3 game (new) that costs $60 for example, you may end up playing it for a week and beating it. You then shelve it and maybe 6 months to a year later you'll give it another go.

For just $20 more, you're getting so much content to fool around with and play to get the pilot skills for all at once that there's no way you're going to be done in a week's time come October.

Those are how I weigh the scales, so it seems kind of silly to reason it all on the number of the dollar without taking that into consideration.

Because clearly a game that can't get new players to actually play it longer than 90 minutes is going to outlast Remember Me because it has a sale item thats 20 dollars more.

[Shumabot]

Nauht, on 26 June 2013 - 05:31 PM, said:

Comparative maths to what? It's disposable income to spend on whatever the **** I like. Be that an $800 golf club, $120 burger, or $2 piece of gum.

It's not an essential item, which I've already accounted for in my daily life.

Sorry that you can't afford that, what can I say - sucks to be you I guess.

Besides use that crystal ball and predict you own lotto numbers so that you can enjoy spending a little. Sounds like you need it more tha. Me.

Just because you can afford things doesn't mean their prices become irrelevant. You just become a fool who is bad with money. It's not a win state, where being able to absorb superfluous and inadvisable costs means you are immune to them. The people who are worst with money are always the ones who are least effected by their financial indolence.

Also, I make well more than I need to to afford this. I'm just not a fool. I can see a plainly overpriced and shoddy product. I'm not wearing blinders.

Edited by Shumabot, 26 June 2013 - 05:36 PM.

[almightyfargoth]

Shumabot, on 26 June 2013 - 05:32 PM, said:

Because clearly a game that can't get new players to actually play it longer than 90 minutes is going to outlast Remember Me because it has a sale item thats 20 dollars more.

Nah, that's not...that's not the right way of looking at what I said.

I have an extensive collection of PS3 games myself, however I have gone out of my way to simply wait for when they're a much lower price at a place like Gamestop. That's smart money decision making right?

So with that in mind, since you brought up a AAA title, I know for a fact most of the highest rated games (except for GTA5 since that's extremely pick up and play) really don't last you more than a week if you're super into it.

With MWO however, there's no story, no progression, no ending. You simply mod your mechs, and go out and fight. With that much added content from the Overlord for example, you really think someone is going to be done in a week's time?

It comes a lot down to the genre of game. MWO is very different than Remember Me, and because of that gameplay time is varied like crazy.

Edited by almightyfargoth, 26 June 2013 - 05:40 PM.

[Shumabot]

almightyfargoth, on 26 June 2013 - 05:32 PM, said:

Well yeah, but wouldn't that make you more pissed about the price of like...the Misery? than these Phoenix deals?

Because evened out, it's a pretty decent bargain for anyone out there with the money.

I agree, and the deal itself is great given what they offer within the structure of their previously established sale items. The problem is that they're creating 4-5 months of segregated content where players will be unequal. That creates a palpable sense of unfairness, and this game already has terminal issues with player recruitment. This will hardly help with that. It also deludes the value of monthly new mechs when a segment of the games population has had them for months, it makes their addition flavorless.

I'm more concerned with what this and item consumables represent, I'm worried about them taking the low road of monetization specifically because they have started to give up on new player recruitment. Policies like this are harmful to a games longterm life. I like mechwarrior, I don't actually want to see this game crater, nor do I want to see it be an overly expensive zombie of a game with a small obsessive population for the few years that can be reasonably sustained.

almightyfargoth, on 26 June 2013 - 05:37 PM, said:

Nah, that's not...that's not the right way of looking at what I said.

I have an extensive collection of PS3 games myself, however I have gone out of my way to simply wait for when they're a much lower price at a place like Gamestop. That's smart money decision making right?

So with that in mind, since you brought up a AAA title, I know for a fact most of the highest rated games (except for GTA5 since that's extremely pick up and play) really don't last you more than a week if you're super into it.

With MWO however, there's no story, no progression, no ending. You simply mod your mechs, and go out and fight. With that much added content from the Overlord for example, you really think someone is going to be done in a week's time?

It comes a lot down to the genre of game. MWO is very different than Remember Me, and because of that gameplay time is varied like crazy.

Certainly, I probably should have selected a different dedicated multiplayer game. That's one of the reason I keep bringing up buys like steam summer sales. It's also a difficult comparison because you are already here, playing this game, and you seem like you aren't disposed to dislike this. I can't speak for the majority population of gamers, but this game has a hard time recruiting players and its community is a distilled group of veterans, which I suspect isn't sustainable or profitable in the long term. This hurts the former while catering to the latter.

Edited by Shumabot, 26 June 2013 - 05:45 PM.

[CaveMan]

Sorry, but I already feel like I got burned on the founder's package. I'm really hoping they aren't dumb enough to make the unseen not available outside of this cash grab. Things are already going badly with this game as-is, if there's not going to be c-bill versions of the classic 'Mechs I might be insulted enough to give up on the game altogether.

[Grrzoot]

CaveMan, on 26 June 2013 - 05:43 PM, said:

Sorry, but I already feel like I got burned on the founder's package. I'm really hoping they aren't dumb enough to make the unseen not available outside of this cash grab. Things are already going badly with this game as-is, if there's not going to be c-bill versions of the classic 'Mechs I might be insulted enough to give up on the game altogether.

please read the terms, all mechs are going to be c-bill available with exception of the basically (hero) variants, they just release at later times.

[anonymous161]

Khobai, on 26 June 2013 - 05:25 PM, said:

Yep. When steam has their summer sale, I can easily spend that $80 to buy like 10+ games.

Ya I've bought a ton of great games on steam for like five bucks, for example shogun 2, that comes with everything I've been playing that for over 2 years straight almost every day I play that for a few hours. I still play Halo since it was released! This game...sure I've played it for months but off and on. I'm tired of the over priced none completed still too buggy game. I dont think I'm gonna be playing this for much longer the whole thing is just tired. No new game types, the mechs are not balanced or fun like they were in the older games.

[Ngamok]

Need mods to clean up Shumabot and others going back and forth here. There is no discussion with him other than a fool and his money type posts over and over.

[Hillslam]

bunch of whiney children

[thunderswamp]

now with these mechs being released does it come with the mech bays or do we have to buy the bays for all of them as well?

[Shumabot]

Ngamok, on 26 June 2013 - 06:07 PM, said:

Need mods to clean up Shumabot and others going back and forth here. There is no discussion with him other than a fool and his money type posts over and over.

Yeah, because discussing profit price bell curves, discussing the pop impacts of segregated paygates, and comparing the prices of this to the competition is just "a fool and his money".

Maybe if people like you could do something other than say "shut up" while throwing money into a pit we'd have a better discussion going. Maybe we'd have a better game.

[Grimmnyr]

Shumabot, on 26 June 2013 - 05:19 PM, said:

Your hobby involves spending 1.5 times as much money as a finished AAA title by a well known developers. I don't care if you saved your little pennies, you're bad with money. Having a lot of money doesn't make it ok that you're letting yourself get fleeced.

It speaks volumes that you can't do simple comparative math and come up with the conclusion "this costs way too much".

Had nothing to do with comparative math. It is the same as buying any other non-essential item. If a person believes that they can afford to spend $80 on pixels and some numbers in a database, then don't give them a hard time for doing so. No one is forced to pay a dime for anything PGI is selling.

And don't call me a PGI apologist, I am as much critical of PGI as I am supportive, but ultimately, I want this to be the great game it should be.

Edited by Ed Steele, 26 June 2013 - 06:31 PM.

[Steinar Bergstol]

thunderswamp, on 26 June 2013 - 06:21 PM, said:

now with these mechs being released does it come with the mech bays or do we have to buy the bays for all of them as well?

Yes, the deal comes with mechbays for every mech you get.

[Ace Selin]

If you don't think the Phoenix mechs are worth your money then don't buy them and get the mechs later on for cbills. There are however those of us who do think its a pretty good deal. Compared to how much I pay for EVE its a great price, as its whatever I want to pay for an online game I do enjoy, despite some quirks. As others have said before, my disposable income (and theirs) is for whatever we want to use it for, to enjoy and not worry about cost-benefit equations, if you do that you might as well never buy anything fun, just those things you absolutely need. I enjoy playing MWO (some of you don't so that's a pity) so its my right to spend what I want on this game without others calling me out on it.

[Javin]

Spend on what you like.

I do agree there could be much more to this game if PGI concentrated on this one game.

[White Bear 84]

Ace Selin, on 26 June 2013 - 06:46 PM, said:

If you don't think the Phoenix mechs are worth your money then don't buy them and get the mechs later on for cbills. There are however those of us who do think its a pretty good deal. Compared to how much I pay for EVE its a great price, as its whatever I want to pay for an online game I do enjoy, despite some quirks. As others have said before, my disposable income (and theirs) is for whatever we want to use it for, to enjoy and not worry about cost-benefit equations, if you do that you might as well never buy anything fun, just those things you absolutely need. I enjoy playing MWO (some of you don't so that's a pity) so its my right to spend what I want on this game without others calling me out on it.

$180 approximately worth of value.

The premium alone is around $50

Then you have the mechs with the 'hero'esque bonus ($30), paint , camo ($12), 12 mechbays ($15) (Currently around $110), oh yes, then you have another EIGHT mechs = $64

Total = $174 worth of gear and not having to grind for weeks to get 8 mechs.

Oh, wait and you have the cockpit items, another $8..

$182. plus a few perks;
- Overlord badge
- Unique geometry and bonus on one variant of each
- Unique camo and colour

Not bad. Not bad at all.

Cheers

Overlord White Bear 84.

[Hamm3r]

Waiting for Payday but defiantly getting Overlord!

[Mason Grimm]

Because many of you have asked this question in one form or another; Russ was on the NGNG Podcast tonight and stated that "All the money is going BACK in to Mechwarrior to make the game better". No split with any other projects.

You wanna make the game better? Fine, step up and put your money where your mouth is. It takes money to make games. It takes MORE money to make great games! The quickest way to make sure the game doesn't succeed? Continue posting non-constructive complaints and doing everything in your power to contribute to a toxic atmosphere.

I don't care what Steam is doing or what Wing Commander 5000 has or what Star Citizen has or League of Legends or World of Tanks or even what Tom, Richard and Harry are doing. If you like their business model better go and play their product.

Already bought a Founders pack to help Kickstart things and are leery? Fine, wait it out. You are being a cautious consumer. Nobody can blame you for that.

Don't feel like contributing? That is cool too; enjoy the Free to Play game that you have now and enjoy it more as it develops into whatever path(s) it takes. Offer constructive criticism along the way and then eventually step up with your wallet when things are at a point you enjoy it more.

What you DON'T get to do is tell me that I'm wasting my time and money on a game because Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah XYZ Game does this and that and Steam charges this and that and more blah blah and finally blah. Seriously, it's all blah blah blah at this point. "PGI Lied" and "PGI Didn't Do This When They Said They Would" and "ZOMG I R UNHAPPY". Big deal! In my line of work things are dynamic up to the millisecond. Just because someone said something one day doesn't mean things don't evolve. What is that saying; "The only two things in life that are a certainty are death and taxes"?

After a bad day at work, and I'm talking MVCs, VSAs, structure fires and sometimes even saving some damn cat from a tree, I wanna come home and strap in and challenge my skills matching it with memories that I have from being a kid. I wanna live that 2nd Edition Tabletop Game but with graphics and twitch like controls. Is that money wasted? No. It shuts out visions and memories of things most of you will NEVER understand and hopefully never have to deal with. I deal with those things so you don't have to. This game replaces those bad things with fancy Laz0rs and PPCs and ACs and etc. etc. etc. With FUN and it does so with a development team 1/3 the size of a major Studio . With people who aren't just businessmen or computer nerds but they are fans of the same franchise/system that I grew up enjoying. This game also provides camaraderie and fun and competitive spirit. Laughter and jabs and team spirit (if you have a Corps etc).

Again, not money wasted but thanks for your concern.

The Law According to Grimm